Wikipedia:Peer review/Pain fitzJohn/archive1

Pain fitzJohn
This peer review discussion has been closed. I've listed this article for peer review because I'd like to take this to FAC, and it desperately needs attention from someone in terms of prose, comprehensiveness, and comprehensibility by the non-specialist. The more the merrier! All serious comments very much welcomed. Ealdgyth - Talk 16:44, 29 December 2011 (UTC)

Thanks, Ealdgyth - Talk 16:44, 29 December 2011 (UTC)


 * Brief but srs comments from Nikkimaria
 * "One historian, Bruce Coplestone-Crow" - the same one mentioned a couple of paragraphs earlier?
 * "Pain endeavoured to secure more lands around Ludlow in order to secure his hold" - can we avoid repeating "secure" here?
 * "Pain was killed by the Welsh in an ambush,[12][notes 8] from a javelin blow to the head" - suggest moving the javelin blow to before the ambush
 * Gilbert Lacy or Gilbert de Lacy?
 * "19th century accounts" -> "19th-century accounts", or preferably "Nineteenth-century accounts" since it's the head of a sentence. Nikkimaria (talk) 05:59, 4 January 2012 (UTC)

This looks very good to me - here are a few niggles I found on reading it. They are almost all concerned with providing more context to the reader Could a map showing important places in his life or his significant holds be added? Hope this helps. If my comments are useful, please consider peer reviewing an article, especially one at Peer review/backlog (which is how I found this article). I do not watch peer reviews, so if you have questions or comments, please contact me on my talk page. Yours, Ruhrfisch &gt;&lt;&gt; &deg; &deg; 15:31, 4 February 2012 (UTC)
 * Ruhrfisch comments
 * In Early life, I think it would help to explain the last name (fitz = son of) explicitly - only needs one sentence or phrase added
 * In Marriage and lands, I assume de Lacy died and his daughter / niece (our hero's wife) inherited much of his land - could this be made clearer? ''Pain did not receive the entirety of the lands of Hugh de Lacy; some went to Jocelin de Dinan and others went to Miles of Gloucester.[20]
 * What are knights fees?
 * I see that the third paragraph of Early life addresses some of the issue raised above (inheriting de Lacy lands). Perhaps the material should come earlier in the section?
 * Under Henry I, any reason not to include an image of King Henry?
 * I would add Henry's accession date to Pain was too young to serve King William Rufus, but there is evidence that he may have been a chamberlain, one of the officials in charge of the royal household, for King Henry I.
 * clarify or link body servant?
 * In Under Stephen, could the whole Stephen vs. Matilda succession issue be made somewhat clearer - it is alluded to but never explicitly explained
 * Death - Agree with Nikki on the javelin blow wording
 * Can anything be added about Agnes and her two marriages?
 * Please make sure that the existing text includes no copyright violations, plagiarism, or close paraphrasing. For more information on this please see Wikipedia_Signpost/2009-04-13/Dispatches. (This is a general warning given in all peer reviews, in view of previous problems that have risen over copyvios.)