Wikipedia:Peer review/Pope John Paul II/archive2

Pope John Paul II

 * Previous peer review
 * A script has been used to generate a semi-automated review of the article for issues relating to grammar and house style; it can be found on the automated peer review page for January 2009.
 * A script has been used to generate a semi-automated review of the article for issues relating to grammar and house style; it can be found on the automated peer review page for January 2009.

This peer review discussion has been closed. I've listed this article for peer review because it should be a 'Good Article'. It needs expanding but possible problem of editors thinking 'too  long' I disagree. This needs more opinions. John Paul II was Pope for 27 years. Please compare to George Bush (??) or other world leaders. John Paul had profound impact worldwide and this needs to be taken into account. We cannot sell him short. I think more comment and sensible discussion is deserved and required. All suggestions will be considered carefully.

Thankyou, MaciejKudra (talk) 22:19, 16 January 2009 (UTC)

Comments from Kensplanet
 * Very very lenghty article. 62 KB of readable Prose. You'll have to shorten it. Forget a FA with 62 KB of Prose.
 * Countries like United Kingdom, Poland etc..need not be linked. Delink them in the Pastoral trips and Islam and all other sections.
 * Priesthood: In the Image with caption, Karol Wojtyła as a priest in Niegowić. Karol Wojtyła need not be bolded.
 * I think the Apologies can be shortened. All the Apologies like The conquest of Mesoamerica by Spain in the name of the Church, etc.. should be moved to a seperate article Apologies by Pope John Paul II. Kensplanet TC 17:39, 19 January 2009 (UTC)

Comments from Casliber
 * Yes, I just did dr PDAs tool too, you really have to relegate more material to subordinate articles. I will look more to advise on what to trim and where it may go. Casliber (talk · contribs) 04:58, 21 January 2009 (UTC)


 * There are alot of stubby sections; I would reduce to a sentence or so President George W. Bush presents Medal of Freedom to Pope John Paul II and place in previous section on poland/communism. Casliber (talk · contribs) 06:26, 21 January 2009 (UTC)


 * The text is flabby in places with redundancies and unnecessary explanations. I have ]http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Pope_John_Paul_II&diff=265854338&oldid=265825347 reduced a bit] - see if you can trim like this. I will have more of a look. Casliber (talk · contribs) 04:13, 23 January 2009 (UTC)

Comments from Savidan
 * I'll probably be back with more thorough comments later, but the most obvious thing is that it appears that none of the books in the references are really cited in the notes, which are almost exclusively from internet news articles. I think the article would really benefit from citing some of the key biographies throughout. Especially for summary-style stuff, published books are preferable. Savidan 03:59, 2 February 2009 (UTC)

Comments from EtonLibrarian
 * This article is aspiring to be a Good Article. To start with it is far far too long (57K little chance!)
 * Another criticism is tone of article, serious POV issues and hagiography. It is also suffering from undue weight and "synthesis of sourced".
 * Prose sometimes wanders, but rarely flows.
 * Length and tone are probably greatest issues with the fact that it is triffle "rigid".
 * Needs major improvement
 * Too many photos EtonLibrarian (talk) 20:07, 2 February 2009 (UTC)

Comments from Pastor Theo
 * There are many sections in the article where citations are lacking. There are also three redlinks -- one for a book written by John Paul II and two for individuals -- that could be filled in.
 * You may wish to consider adding more about the Catholic sex abuse scandal, which is mentioned in passing. Pastor Theo (talk) 01:48, 3 February 2009 (UTC)

Comments from Ioannes Pragensis
 * Lead: "While many have criticised him for..., others have praised him for his stances in these areas." sounds a bit weasel-like to me ("many/others": how many? which others?). The praise also should be attributed (use a citation).
 * "most-travelled world leaders" - watch for overlinking, there is no need to link common words like "world". Moreover watch for needless repeated links to the same word (like communism in the section Priesthood).
 * Biography: "Karol grew close to his brother Edmund" - should be mentioned how older/younger was Edmund compared to Karol.
 * "In sharp contrast to the harshness normally expected from the occupiers," "Wojtyła and another seminarian volunteered for the odious task of chopping up and carting away piles of frozen excrement from the lavatories." etc. - sometimes perhaps too essay-like or too detailed.
 * "Deitsche Welle" (in the notes) - probably should be "Deutsche Welle"
 * "He earned a second doctorate, evaluating the feasibility of a Catholic ethic" - doctorate of what? philosophy?
 * "two pseudonyms - Andrzej Jawień" or "Second Vatican Council (1962-1965)" - typography: it should use "–", the long hyphen
 * "During this period,...:" The paragraph sounds like if the book "Love and Responsibility" were a literary work published under pseudonym. Describe Wojtyla's literary work better and distinguish it better from the theological work.
 * chapter Bishop and cardinal: Is something known about Wojtyla's pastoral and political activities in Poland?
 * A Pope from Poland: At least in my old-fashioned IE 6, the graphical layout is horrible - white spaces, images, too many italics, to many citations...
 * The title of the chapter should be changed - e.g. Election as pope; now it sounds a bit unencyclopedic
 * Source the Siri/Benelli split in the conclave
 * “I have a sweet tooth for song and music. This is my Polish sin.” - why is this citation here? Looks very unencyclopedic and out-of-place
 * The Election chapter should be shortened. There can be created a new article about the second 1978 conclave with all the details.
 * In the Papacy part, there should be a chapter about his work during his reign - his travels, encyclicas, diplomacy, church policy... - now it looks from the titles of sub-chapters like he was elected, assassinated, ill and died.
 * Assassination attempts: "was shot and critically wounded" - the word "critically" is perhaps a bit too strong here; what about "seriously"?
 * "by Mehmet Ali Ağca, an expert and trained Turkish gunman" - expert in what?
 * "the bullets missed" - how many bullets hit the Pope?
 * the assassination chapter is too long