Wikipedia:Peer review/R. A. B. Mynors/archive1

R. A. B. Mynors


I've brought this article up to GA status in August of last year. I'd like to bring it up to FA status but I haven't yet been involved in an FA review. I'm asking for a peer review to find out what improvements would need to be made before submitting the article at FAC. Any comments are appreciated.

Thanks, Modussiccandi (talk) 11:22, 23 January 2021 (UTC)


 * I have added this to Template:FAC peer review sidebar for you; please remember to remove it when you close the peer review (and in the future, adding items there may get a faster response). Sandy Georgia  (Talk)  20:58, 28 January 2021 (UTC)
 * Thank you very much! I was unaware of this. Modussiccandi (talk) 21:25, 28 January 2021 (UTC)

Comments from SandyGeorgia
I know nothing of the topic, so you get what you pay for :) As I am not versed in this field, will ping some editors who might be willing to look in here: ; if they can't help out here, they may know who can. I'm sorry that is all I can offer, good luck at FAC! Sandy Georgia (Talk)  00:25, 16 March 2021 (UTC)
 * Is there a reason for not using pp. (as opposed to p.) when the page range is more than one page?
 * See WP:LAYOUT, his publications go before the references. I don't believe you should be including the subscription only links to those books; just listing them. It would be helpful if they had ISBNs, as then people could find them in local libraries via ISBN search.
 * Make sure everything in the infobox is also in the article (for example, I don't see where the article specifically mentions he was born in Wiltshire).
 * He is most renowned for his contribution to the study of manuscripts, from which most classical texts are reconstructed. "Most renowned" is usually difficult to cite; can it be?  The sentence is somewhat confusing ... most classical texts are reconstructed from manuscripts, but it could be read like most classical texts are reconstructed from his contributions to manuscripts.
 * See the overuse of however and User:John/however.
 * However, his best known publications are Ditto for above, statements like this are often found in leads but uncited in bodies ... are they "best known" ? Can that be cited? I don't find it cited in the article.
 * Mynors was knighted for his service to classical scholarship in 1963. was knighted in 1963 for his service ... or his service was only in 1963 ?
 * Odd phrase, but could just be me ... Sharing the college with ...
 * He then was elected to a fellowship
 * The article relies heavily on Winterbottom; you are likely to get pushback on that at FAC.
 * WP:OVERLINK, Second World War ... everyone knows what it is, no one will click on it from this article.
 * of the Treasury. ... keep in mind a global audience, spell out which treasury.
 * At the time, there was no precedent for such a move. What about returning to his alma mater was unprecedented?
 * He was survived by his wife Lavinia ... not an obit, we don't usually add "survived bys".
 * During his career, Mynors gained a reputation as one of the leading Latinists of his generation. Could you provide a quote from the The Times?
 * Put refs in ascending order ... distinguished editor of Latin texts by fellow Classicists,[22][2] ... which classicists and according to whom? Because a source-to-text integrity check will be done at FAC, you should be prepared to spell these out, as sources are not available online.
 * Thank you very much for your observations. I'll do my best to address the issues raised. Modussiccandi (talk) 09:57, 16 March 2021 (UTC)
 * No need to get back to me unless you have question ... unwatching now, so ping me if something is unclear, otherwise, good luck at FAC! Hopefully others will show up who can be more helpful than I have been. Sandy Georgia (Talk)  15:12, 16 March 2021 (UTC)

Comments from Amitchell125

 * Classics or classics? (see here and here, which both go for the former).
 * Link rector (Rector (ecclesiastical)); Proceedings of the American Philosophical Society.
 * Latin Literature - small l in literature.
 * In the image caption Treago Castle could be linked.
 * I would avoid significant within the text.
 * Duplicated links that need to be removed: Langley Burrell; Wiltshire; L. D. Reynolds.
 * Introduce Reynolds at his first mention.
 * The ISBN numbers all need to be formatted in the same way.
 * Any page number ranges need to be in full – '384–388' not 384–8.
 * I would amend a stamp collection to 'stamp collecting' (which can be linked).
 * I would add a comma after Hereford Cathedral.
 * He was buried at St Weonards – where in the village was he buried (I am presuming outside the church)?
 * he has been described as a conservative textual critic – consider replacing he with 'Mynors', as Reynolds is mentioned in the previous sentence.
 * Proceedings of the American Philosophical Society needs an ISSN (0003-049X). Ditto The Classical Review (0009-840X), Hermathena (0018-0750); Proceedings of the British Academy (0068-1202).
 * The four occurrences of also seem to me unnecessary.
 * Unlink Mynors’ family, as it links to 'Mynors baronets' (created in 1964 for his twin) and not to an article about the family.
 * Treago or Treago Castle? (see this from Historic England, which is not entirely clear that the house was in the possession of the family when first constructed).

More to follow in a few days. Regards, Amitchell125 (talk) 10:21, 18 March 2021 (UTC)


 * Since there have been no new reviewers in the last few days, I'm looking to close this discussion soon., thank you for the above comments. Do you have any more general feedback on the article as I prepare for the FA candidacy? Don't worry if you've got nothing to add; I just wanted to make sure I don't miss out on any advice. Modussiccandi (talk) 00:23, 23 March 2021 (UTC)

A few more comments

 * The Times is linked in References, but not The Guardian.
 * The ISSN for Bryn Mawr Classical Review is 1055-7660.
 * 'early stages of his academic career' - academic career is found twice in this paragraph in the lead, I would remove the second 'academic'.
 * 'He later served' - later is imo redundant and can go. Ditto highly in 'a number of highly complex'; just in 'died just months'
 * 'had earned a reputation' - the sentence doesn't seem quite right to me with earned there.
 * 'his lengthy career' - I would replace lengthy with something more precise, or not include it (possible MOS:PUFFERY?).
 * 'who in 1908 had been secretary to the Pan-Anglican Congress' - might need tweaking, as it can be read in more than one way (something like "who was secretary to the Pan-Anglican Congress, held in London in June 1908").
 * 'he experienced a highly successful time as an undergraduate' - seems to me a bit vague and open to misinterpretation (became a party-goer? got top marks in exams? made lots of life-long friends? etc).
 * he won the Hertford, Craven, and Derby scholarships - I would include the dates given in the ODNB. The scholarships pre-date his graduation year, but the article doesn't make this clear.
 * 'He was elected to a fellowship at the same college' - it might be better to remind readers of the name of the college, e.g. He was elected to a fellowship at Balliol.
 * 'At the time of his university appointment' - too many universities in this paragraph, university can go from this phrase, as it's redundant.
 * 'Mynors' teaching was dedicated to the poet Vergil' - not sure about dedicated, as the phrase could be misread.
 * 'for which he travelled extensively in continental Europe' - any details, to make this sound less vague?
 * Consider linking librarian (Academic library).
 * 'made the acquaintance of' - =met?
 * gentleman-scholar - is this the correct meaning? It might be better to replace the phrase for the sake of clarity, especially as it is similar to the (generally avoided) cliché a gentleman and a scholar (see MOS:CLICHE).
 * 'Working on the series in several roles' - any details available?
 * 'He maintained an interest in the nearby Hereford Cathedral' - does this mean he found the cathedral interesting, or he went to the cathedral to spent time on one of his interests?
 * 'to the field:' you need to use a semi-colon (MOS:SEMICOLON).
 * 'The Warburg Institute honoured him' - is there a date?

That's it from me, good luck with the article. Amitchell125 (talk) 09:49, 23 March 2021 (UTC)

Comments from Gerda
Late, but perhaps not too late, - thank you for the reminder.

Lead
 * read Classics or classics?
 * I'd offer that the second end of the Oxford term (1970) meant retirement.

TOC
 * Fine, but I'd drop "Selected" from the publications, - inviting the question selected by whom and for what criteria.

Early ...
 * His brother Humphrey, - I guess I'd say "they would live together" (in a section "Early life"!), and perhaps not mention his death at all, until it fits in chronology, or not at all.

Pembroke
 * I'd have the marriage in chronological order. Do we know anything else about his wife and their relationship, than that they had no children?
 * I wonder if the duties at Balliol wouldn't be better there.

Retirement
 * Do we have to know who Bede is, or does it not matter?

References
 * I suggest to format all citations in the bibliography.

not there yet
 * I could imagine to show an image of a manuscript if available. Hereford Cathedral. Title page of a book he published.
 * alt texts for images are there but could be a bit more informative, - imagine you were blind, what would you like to know about an image? --Gerda Arendt (talk) 20:04, 23 March 2021 (UTC)

Comments from llywrch
Sorry, I meant to offer some comments here sooner, but the last few weeks have been hectic for me at work.

First, I want to say that this is pretty much a solid GA as it stands. There are a few points I would push to fix as GA criticism:
 * The first two paragraphs of the section "legacy" feel as if they repeat their point, that he was "one of the leading classical scholars of his generation". I'm tempted to drop the first sentence of the second paragraph & join the two. (That's my initial reaction; were I to rewrite that part, I'd think about it a bit more first.)
 * The selection of publications do not include all of the books mentioned in the body of the article. As it reads, it includes only one title beyond his editions of Classical writers, & nothing about his editions of Medieval Latin writers, like Bede. I believe the edition of Bede's Ecclesiastical history he co-authored was the first since Plummer's in 1896.

But since you are interested in turning this into a Featured Article, I feel there is more work to be done.
 * I have little sense of what Mynor's influence on scholarship was. Yes, he edited a number of texts, & some important texts. However, I have little sense about how his approach differed from editors before him -- with the exception of his edition of Vergil's Georgics, where bring in some of the academic response to his edition.
 * I did a bit of Googling, & found this pdf, which is more what I'd expect in an FA about Mynor. This describes his approach to studying manuscripts insightfully, seeing them as artifacts of personal relationships of scholars, who in the pre-print age often loaned (or stole) manuscripts from their friends, colleagues, & other associates. Thus an otherwise unremarkable late manuscript of Seneca proves important as evidence of book trade in the Rhineland. I happen to own a copy of Reynold's Texts and Transmission, & knowing how it relates to Mynor's personality gives new significance to the chapters where the texts of Classical works are traced down to the latest known manuscripts.
 * Along these lines, it would be worth including if he proposed any controversial or otherwise notable readings in his editions.
 * Another bit that piqued my curiosity was his war service. Many academics of his generation who contributed to the war effort as civilians (as he did), did so far more often working in intelligence, as analysists or code crackers. (For example, I remember Anthony Birley remarking in an aside in one of his books how his prosopographical experience proved valuable in tracing the career paths of enemy German officers & evaluating just how skilled they were.) So it is something of a surprise to find Mynor serving "at the Exchange Control Department of Her Majesty's Treasury". I suspect there is a story there. (Or maybe not; maybe someone in charge took one look at him, decided he looked like an economist, & sent him to Treasury. Still...)

Achieving deeper coverage will likely mean you have to go beyond sources available online, which will be difficult during this pandemic. (I have found my research closely curtailed because of it.) But going further in that direction is necessary if you want this to be FA quality. -- llywrch (talk) 23:20, 25 March 2021 (UTC)