Wikipedia:Peer review/Reginald Heber/archive1

Reginald Heber
This peer review discussion has been closed. Not a name that evokes instant recognition today, though Heber was a force in his brief lifetime and is remembered for his hymns which are still sung in Anglican churches. He was a kind of forerunner of the Victorian school of missionaries (Livingstone, etc) that sought to evangelise the world, and his paternalistic attitudes make him a curiously outdated figure now, though he undoubtedly meant well. Any comments gratefully received. Brianboulton (talk) 11:16, 23 July 2012 (UTC)


 * Comments by Wehwalt

First, I looked at the images and all seems in order there.


 * Lede
 * " became staples in church hymnals for several generations." Perhaps "subsequently became staples in church hymnals".  I'm imagining you're implying that they've fallen out of favour, but perhaps too much for the lede.
 * "large areas" I tentatively suggest "large portion".  Can a pipe be done to British India or similar?
 * Early life
 * "quite in the accomplished manner of a theological controversialist" Perhaps so, but I'm not sure that this conveys meaning effectively to the reader.
 * "Thornton's decision to go to Cambridge was a matter for personal regret." Whose?
 * "Richard Heber was currently a fellow of the college, " Perhaps "then" for "currently"?  And given that there are two Richards and two Reginalds, can any better method of disambiguation be found?  I had to go back and study the family tree a bit before being sure I got this.
 * "He began to develop a reputation as a minor Romantic poet" There's something that bothers me about gaining a reputation (especially at his age) as a minor Romantic poet.  Can an adjective be found to modify "reputation" and the word "minor" excised?
 * " were making " Made.
 * "in what was then the Swedish part of Finland and was the site of Europe's most northerly university." some slight ambiguity, in that it is unclear whether it implies whether Turku was the site of the university, or if, more generally, Swedish Finland.
 * "British Embassy they obtained access to most of the significant places, even visiting Tsar Alexander's private quarters in the Winter Palace." Were most significant places off limits then?  I can understand Alex's rooms, but it kinda implies most things in St. Pete were not open to visitors.
 * "chaunt" consider a sic.
 * Rector
 * It would be interesting to know if Heber's collection received episcopal approval.
 * The sources don't unfortunately, provide this information Brianboulton (talk) 20:55, 25 July 2012 (UTC)
 * I gather Watson's view is more believed, given that "Heber's tendency towards rather obvious sermonising" is stated as a fact rather than opinion.
 * Bishop
 * " early travels in west and southern Asia." I don't see a mention of these, but I am notorious for careless reading.  They don't seem to have entered Asia during the Grand Tour.
 * " using a power newly provided to him by law" Perhaps "using a power newly granted to him by Parliament" (or whoever)
 * "untoward celebrations" Perhaps "excessive celebrations".  Was his objection religious or financial, may I ask?
 * " her youngest daughter, Harriet." Given that the first daughter was dead, this leads to picky issues over "younger" vs. "youngest".  Suggest avoiding the issue with "third" or "third and final".
 * You speak in the lede of the large areas of India which were part of Heber's diocese. You never actually say in the body what parts of India were in the diocese.  I imagine his travels were to different parts of his diocese?  Ceylon?
 * The sources are inexplicit here. I imagine that the diocese included all the parts of India under British rule, but I can't make this explicit. As for Ceylon, you will see from the last paragraph of the Travels section that it was included in his journeys. Brianboulton (talk) 20:55, 25 July 2012 (UTC)
 * I meant whether it was part of his diocese, but I would imagine so.--Wehwalt (talk) 09:41, 27 July 2012 (UTC)
 * " He was concerned that so few Indians were promoted to senior posts, " I would delete "so".
 * "His funeral was held the next day at St John's church, where he had preached his final sermon the previous day, and he was buried within the church, on the north side of the altar." The next day/previous day pairing may lead to some confusion; I would suggest deleting ", and" in favour of a semicolon.
 * Memorials
 * "St John's Church" In the previous section and in the image caption, it is "church".  I would also throw an "initially" in the first part of the sentence.
 * " for permanent monuments." I'm not certain what "permanent" adds to this.
 * " in Trichinopoly a mission school founded by the German missionary Christian Friedrich Schwarz became the Heber Memorial School." Strike "mission".
 * That's all I have, interesting read, well done.--Wehwalt (talk) 22:39, 24 July 2012 (UTC)


 * Thanks for the review and comments. I will deal with them on Wednesday if possible. Brianboulton (talk) 23:24, 24 July 2012 (UTC)
 * All done I think Brianboulton (talk) 20:55, 25 July 2012 (UTC)

BB, A very interesting monograph indeed. There are only a few points, largely a question of style of punctuation. I've suggested my favoured approach, but these are possibly incorrect (heaven knows my work gets copy edited to within an inch of its life, so I must get most things wrong!) On that basis, please feel free to ignore or reject—especially those points relating to the use of commas. I've also suggested a couple of links to cover some of the more technical terminology that may confuse some. Feel free to ignore most or all of these, especially the stle ones.

Infobox
 * Spacing between MA and bracket for "MA(Oxon)" (Unless it is customary to run the two together)
 * Either form is valid; both are widely used. Brianboulton (talk) 19:09, 29 July 2012 (UTC)

Lead
 * After graduation comma he expanded… It may just be my personal use of them, so ignore if it's poor English.
 * I think this is a question of personal style. My habit is only to use the comma if there is a natural pause or a subordinate clause following. For example if I had written "After graduation, feeling the need for a change, he expanded his view..." etc, the comma would be there, but as it stands it is not needed.

Early life
 * "…inherited the estate and became rector of Hodnet in addition to the Malpas living." I'm not entirely sure what "the Malpas living" is. (You also refer to the "the family living" below) Is this something similar to the benefice? If so, perhaps either a footnote or a link might help.
 * Now linked: living Brianboulton (talk) 19:09, 29 July 2012 (UTC)


 * At Bristow's comma Reginald met John Thornton, who became a lifelong friend. Again, probably just my personal choice.
 * See my comment above. Brianboulton (talk) 19:09, 29 July 2012 (UTC)
 * "Richard was currently a fellow of the college" I'd consider using fellow to help out those who think a fellow is a chap, rather than an academic role.
 * Link added Brianboulton (talk) 19:09, 29 July 2012 (UTC)

Rector of Hodnet
 * On 9 April 1809 comma Heber married…" I tend to put in a comma after a full date.
 * Again, it's a matter of style. Americans always put commas after full dates; I only do it when a subordinate clause followa the date, e.g. "On 9 April 1809, when he was 26 years old, Heber married...". Not otherwise. The important thing is to be consistent through the article, and I still need to check for that. Brianboulton (talk) 19:09, 29 July 2012 (UTC)


 * noncommital is double t, I think?
 * Absolutely 19:09, 29 July 2012 (UTC)


 * "which when it came was noncommital" to my ear, "which was noncommittal when it came" sounds a little easier.
 * I've reworded the sentence. Brianboulton (talk) 19:09, 29 July 2012 (UTC)

Bishop of Calcutta
 * "together Australia and parts of southern Africa" should that be "together with"?
 * Well spotted. Brianboulton (talk) 19:09, 29 July 2012 (UTC)


 * "On 15 June 1824 Heber" Again I'd comma after the date

Memorials and legacy
 * "training of local ordinands" – perhaps a piped link to Ordination?
 * Link added Brianboulton (talk) 19:09, 29 July 2012 (UTC)

All very minor points, really, as this is such a well-crafted article. - SchroCat ( ^  •  @ ) 23:02, 28 July 2012 (UTC)

Thank you for making some very useful points, and for picking up a few mistakes. All these have been fixed, per the above responses. Brianboulton (talk) 19:09, 29 July 2012 (UTC)

I have come into this somewhat late so some of the more obvious problems are now fixed. I am struggling to find any problems at all with this extremely tight and well written article. I wanted to offer a couple though so apologies if I might be clutching at straws but here goes:
 * Brief comments from Cassianto
 * Lead section
 * Link to episcopate?
 * Link to Shropshire for those who might be geographically challenged.
 * The trouble with "episcopate" is that the word has two meanings: either a bishop's term in office (the sense in which I have used it), or the collective body of bishops within a Church. Unfortunately, the WP link article was written on the basis of the second definition. However, I have amended that article slightly, to include the first definition, so the link is now justified, and done. I have also linked Shropshire. Brianboulton (talk) 10:17, 31 July 2012 (UTC)


 * Early life
 * "arrived at Moscow on 3 January" -- at or in?
 * I think either is OK. Brianboulton (talk) 10:17, 31 July 2012 (UTC)


 * Rector of Hodnet
 * As far as I can see there is no actual link to hymn.
 * That would, I think, verge on WP:OVERLINK. There can't be many people who understand English who don't know what a hymn is. Brianboulton (talk) 10:17, 31 July 2012 (UTC)

Sorry for the brief set of comments but it's very difficult to improve any further. A very interesting read and one to be proud of. -- CassiantoTalk 09:53, 30 July 2012 (UTC)
 * Bishop of Calcutta
 * Whole section fine.
 * Memorials and legacy
 * Again, looks good to me.
 * Thank you for these comments and the suggestions for improvement, mainly adopted. I am in no particular hurry to send this article forward for FAC, and will leave it for a few days, perhaps tinker with it a little. It's amazing what late improvements can be made, sometimes. Brianboulton (talk) 10:17, 31 July 2012 (UTC)