Wikipedia:Peer review/Ronnie Lee Gardner/archive1

Ronnie Lee Gardner
This peer review discussion has been closed. I've listed this article for peer review because incoming information has stabilized considerably as the subject is now deceased. I am interested in recommendations to promote this to good article status.

Thanks, KimChee (talk) 04:36, 24 September 2010 (UTC)


 * Comments from Jappalang


 * Dablinks (toolbox on the right of this peer review page) shows 2 disambiguation links; please fix them.


 * Checklinks shows 6 dead links; please fix them.
 * Symbol wait.svg Found replacements for 3; working on the others. KimChee (talk) 23:55, 30 September 2010 (UTC)
 * Ambox notice.png It appears the only other online versions of these 3 articles are now behind pay portals. The links used to forward to newspaper scans in Google Archives that have since been taken down. There may be no other choice than to comment these links out and treat them as offline sources in good faith. KimChee (talk) 11:56, 4 October 2010 (UTC)
 * Pay portals are fine (just make note of them as "Subscription required" in the Format parameter). Jappalang (talk) 01:52, 5 October 2010 (UTC)
 * Ambox notice.png I am noting the dead links here before replacing them with alternate sources in the event the former do appear again:
 * (includes diagram of Gardner's April 2, 1985 escape attempt from the Metropolitan Hall of Justice)
 * (includes diagram of Gardner's October 28, 1987 barricade of a Utah State Prison visiting room)
 * (includes diagram of Gardner's October 28, 1987 barricade of a Utah State Prison visiting room)

Life
 * "... born on January 16, 1961 in Salt Lake City, Utah."
 * US format dates are also required to have commas at the end of the year.
 * Symbol question.svg Are you certain of this? I checked Barack Obama (an FA article for reference) and dates in mid-sentence do not have years followed by commas. I am unfamiliar with this usage outside of a conditional clause at the beginning of a sentence. KimChee (talk) 23:55, 30 September 2010 (UTC)
 * See Comma (In dates): "This style is common in American English. Additionally, most style manuals, including The Chicago Manual of Style and the AP Stylebook, recommend that the year be treated as a parenthetical, requiring a second comma after it: 'Feb. 14, 1987, was the target date.'" Jappalang (talk) 02:24, 1 October 2010 (UTC)
 * ✅. I remember this style guide in college. It may as well be a religious text book.


 * "He was one of nine children born to Ruth Lucas. His father, Dan Gardner, was a heavy drinker who left [...] his mother's subsequent husband, Bill Lucas, while burgling homes."
 * Were his parents married? Is his mother's maiden name Lucas as well?  If not, please check because the sequence by names here is confusing.
 * Ambox notice.png This has been rephrased into smaller sentences. I have not found information confirming any other surname for the mother. KimChee (talk) 23:55, 30 September 2010 (UTC)
 * I think it is a bit puzzling still... Might I suggest that "... born in Salt Lake City, Utah. His father, Dan Gardner, was a heavy drinker who left the family while Ronnie was a toddler and told him that he was not his son. His mother, Ruth, divorced the elder Gardner and later married Bill Lucas.  Gardner was raised by his sister, 8 years his senior. ..."  Jappalang (talk) 02:24, 1 October 2010 (UTC)
 * ✅. I think the stumbling block was that not all of the nine children were from either father. I rewrote this again to make this more clear. KimChee (talk) 03:46, 1 October 2010 (UTC)


 * "... and molested by his older brother."
 * The article reports this as fact. The source states "Gardner has said an older brother molested him."  This is a serious allegation that should be backed up by high-quality sources per Wikipedia's policy on biographies; I do not think Gardner's claims should be stated as fact.  Jappalang (talk) 02:24, 1 October 2010 (UTC)


 * "Jack Statt became a foster parent to Gardner and one of his brothers in 1975,"
 * Who exactly is Statt? Why and how did he become their foster parent?  There should be a better way to introduce him.
 * Did Statt apply to become foster parent or did the state assign him as one? Jappalang (talk) 02:24, 1 October 2010 (UTC)
 * Symbol wait.svg There is not much more information I could find about this person from a reliable source. To my surprise, I found something. KimChee (talk) 03:46, 1 October 2010 (UTC) / 18:41, 1 October 2010 (UTC)
 * Symbol wait.svg There is not much more information I could find about this person from a reliable source. To my surprise, I found something. KimChee (talk) 03:46, 1 October 2010 (UTC) / 18:41, 1 October 2010 (UTC)


 * "Psychology professor Dr. Craig Haney stated that his mother asked the hospital staff to sterilize her because she was overwhelmed by her parental responsibilities."
 * Is this necessary? Jappalang (talk) 01:44, 4 October 2010 (UTC)
 * Ambox notice.png I think the professor was trying to paint a picture explaining why Gardner's mother was unable to parent him properly. I can see how the sentence placement is a bit awkward &mdash; if you think this section still communicates everything it needs to without this detail, I can live without it. KimChee (talk) 11:56, 4 October 2010 (UTC)


 * I edited the section a bit, removing the above the sentence. I also removed the link to alcoholism (from heavy drinking) since alcoholism is an addiction that should be outright stated in the source.  Jappalang (talk) 02:16, 5 October 2010 (UTC)
 * The edits read very well to me. I also updated the lead. KimChee (talk) 21:32, 15 October 2010 (UTC)

Murders
 * "... he shot bartender Melvyn Otterstrom in the nostril,"
 * I have a hard time imagining this. Where did the bullet end up?
 * ✅. This is what the reference stated, but I rephrased it. KimChee (talk) 23:55, 30 September 2010 (UTC)


 * "According to fellow attorney Robert Macri, Gardner initially ..."
 * Gardner is an attorney?
 * ✅. Rephrased to make it clear he was a colleague of Burdell KimChee (talk) 23:55, 30 September 2010 (UTC)


 * "Darcy Perry McCoy found unarmed and arrested about a mile away."
 * I think a word is missing here.

Sentencing and incarceration
 * "... because he was upset that he was required to wear a leg brace that would lock if he attempted to escape again."
 * Repetitive "... that ... that ..."


 * "The jurors deliberated less than three hours on the same day to find Gardner guilty of capital murder."
 * I think "The jurors deliberated less than three hours and found Gardner guilty of capital murder." would be better; the above sentence seem to imply that they planned to find the man guilty.


 * "... but grandfathered it for convicts ..."
 * "Grandfather" as a verb is informal, not suitable for an encylopaedia.


 * "... Utah state representative Dan Tuttle (D-Magna) ..."
 * Why the subscript?
 * I should have make myself clearer. Why do we have "D-Magna" that leads to Democratic Party (United States) and Magna, Utah?  I think Utah state representative was fine to describe Tuttle's standing.  Jappalang (talk) 02:24, 1 October 2010 (UTC)
 * I should have make myself clearer. Why do we have "D-Magna" that leads to Democratic Party (United States) and Magna, Utah?  I think Utah state representative was fine to describe Tuttle's standing.  Jappalang (talk) 02:24, 1 October 2010 (UTC)


 * "On March 3, 2001, the Metropolitan Hall of Justice, the building faulted with the escape attempt that led to Burdell's murder and Gardner's own death sentence, was itself demolished."
 * Does this matter to the subject at hand (Gardner) in a critical sense? One does not fault a building (a non-living entity which cannot take responsibility for any event), nor can it do wrong.
 * Ambox notice.png Rephrased to bring attention to the earlier evaluation by the Sheriff in which he did blame the building. KimChee (talk) 23:55, 30 September 2010 (UTC)
 * I am still not quite convinced that it is relevant to the article. Was the building demolished because Gardner escaped?  Jappalang (talk) 02:24, 1 October 2010 (UTC)
 * Ambox notice.png The escape led the sheriff and the state to evaluate the building and conclude it had serious security problems because of its inherent layout. Here is the problem: this article was once hosted on Google Archives and mysteriously vanished. Hopefully, it will come back. KimChee (talk) 03:46, 1 October 2010 (UTC)
 * ✅. I found different sources and expanded this into a paragraph more clearly relating Gardner's influence on the development of the security measures of the new replacement courthouse, which makes the mention of the demolition of the old one fit more logically. KimChee (talk) 10:34, 1 October 2010 (UTC)

Defense motions
 * "Lawyers and medical experts in Gardner's defense argued whether meningitis contracted at the age 4 had damaged Gardner's brain. He had also huffed gas and glue with his siblings, and played with mercury stolen from gas meters by his stepfather to sell."
 * This is all too sudden here. Why should these not be in the Life section?  Or are they simply concoctions substantiated only by his defense?
 * Ambox notice.png This was only brought up in reports of the appeal. Trying to avoid OR. KimChee (talk) 23:55, 30 September 2010 (UTC)
 * I suggest making it clear at the beginning of this section that these claims were only brought up at the appeals. Jappalang (talk) 02:24, 1 October 2010 (UTC)
 * ✅. This entire section was significantly rewritten and expanded for clarification and also to cover both sides. KimChee (talk) 03:05, 1 October 2010 (UTC)


 * "Deputy Salt Lake County attorney Bob Stott said that McCoy would not be prosecuted because Gardner, the only witness, was going to be executed anyway."
 * This sentence (particularly the ending) reads quite informal to me.


 * "... he signed off on the execution on Twitter:"
 * "... he signed off the execution on Twitter:"?

Death penalty debate
 * "... support of Rep. Brian King ..."
 * What is "Rep."? See WP:MOS on the matter of abbreviations.


 * "Rev. David Henry ..."
 * What is "Rev."? See above about abbreviation.

Execution
 * "The Utah Department of Corrections prepared documentation for Gardner about dying by firing squad and lethal injection along with records of the training and expertise of the execution team. His attorney Andrew Parnes agreed to personally relay the information without showing the actual documents to Gardner or anyone else."
 * Suggestion: "The Utah Department of Corrections provided Gardner with documentation for his own perusal about executions by firing squad and lethal injection. They also gave him records of the execution team's training and expertise.  These documents were relayed to Gardner by his attorney."
 * Ambox notice.png Rephrased differently as the lawyer was asked not to show the physical documents to his client. KimChee (talk) 23:55, 30 September 2010 (UTC)


 * "... 12:15 a.m. MDT ..."
 * What is MDT? See above about abbreviation.


 * "... at Utah State Prison in Draper, Utah."
 * It would be weird if the state prison is not in Utah, so why not "... at the state prison in Draper, Utah."?


 * "... five anonymous volunteers who were certified police officers who stood about 25 feet from the target."
 * Repetitive "... who ... who ...".


 * "His dark blue jumpsuit made it difficult to see the blood pooling at his waist. A medical examiner removed Gardner's hood to reveal his ashen face."
 * Does this seem to be a bit too detailed, more suitable for newspapers than an encyclopaedia? Jappalang (talk) 02:16, 5 October 2010 (UTC)


 * "After the lack of pulse at the neck and pupillary light reflex were verified, Gardner was pronounced dead at 12:17 a.m. by the medical examiner."
 * Active voice: "After verifying Gardner's lack of pulse at the neck and pupillary light reflex, the medical examiner pronounced his death at 12:17 a.m."

Sources
 * What makes ndchronicle.com a reliable source (does it not seem strange to be using a start up Indian website to source for information on a local crime that US news media should have provided)? Please refer to Wikipedia Signpost/2008-06-26/Dispatches and Wikipedia Signpost/2008-07-28/Dispatches on how sources are generally judged.
 * Ambox notice.png This appears to be the one rare source in which many of the family members are identified by name; it otherwise does not make any exceptional claims. KimChee (talk) 23:55, 30 September 2010 (UTC) /18:41, 1 October 2010 (UTC)
 * Judging from their About page and WebArchive search, it seems they started only from 2009. What is their history?  Jappalang (talk) 01:36, 4 October 2010 (UTC)
 * ✅. It took a fair amount of searching to find an article from a local source with this detail that didn't disappear behind a pay portal. KimChee (talk) 11:56, 4 October 2010 (UTC)
 * While this is stricken, I question whether we should identify his family. They (non-notable subjects) might not like their relationship with Gardner made even more explicit.  Jappalang (talk) 02:19, 5 October 2010 (UTC)
 * That's a good point which may explain the reservation of local sources in printing this information. KimChee (talk) 03:16, 6 October 2010 (UTC)

Images
 * File:Ronnie Lee Gardner Mugshot.jpg: who holds the copyright to this mugshot?
 * Ambox notice.png That would be the state of Utah (hence, the fair use template). The caption in the article infobox has been updated to reflect the source. KimChee (talk) 23:55, 30 September 2010 (UTC)
 * Such information should be entered on the image page itself. Jappalang (talk) 02:24, 1 October 2010 (UTC)
 * ✅. I found another mugshot that was more clearly attributed. KimChee (talk) 04:15, 1 October 2010 (UTC)


 * File:Mathesoncourthouse.jpg: lacks the customary assertion of authorship (e.g. "own work", "uploaded by photographer/me", or "I took this photo"); I have asked the uploader to help on this (hopefully he would be on to help).
 * ✅. I found an alternate image of the courthouse that is clearly CC/free, though the other photo is still better. I can switch back if the uploader responds later. and wrote a new caption that fits this photo. KimChee (talk) 04:15, 1 October 2010 (UTC) / 10:34, 1 October 2010 (UTC)

After reading the lead, I thought there would be more wrangling by the subject, the authorities, and the church over the issue of blood atonement, criminal tendencies and such. However, those seem quite inconsequential... Is there really no more that can be reported of? That aside, I found the language here to be pretty good. Jappalang (talk) 06:59, 29 September 2010 (UTC)


 * Thank you, this process has been very helpful. I was previously concerned of coatracking, but will look into the suggestions, though outside coverage of this subject has slowed down considerably. KimChee (talk) 23:55, 30 September 2010 (UTC)
 * Coatracking is when the focus shifts to another subject. I am more concerned for events that relate to Gardner's case (and not attempts to bring the subjects into general focus); i.e. was Gardner's claim of blood atonement justified (whether it fulfills the tenets of Mormonism), what disputes of "criminal tendencies", centered on Gardner, were brought up during the trials, etc.  Details of theories and their validity should not be in this article (this article should not validate or dispute them).  Jappalang (talk) 02:30, 1 October 2010 (UTC)
 * Ambox notice.png I rewrote and expanded the paragraphs in Death penalty debate and Defense motions to go into more detail about blood atonement and Gardner's defense. I also expanded the opening paragraphs regarding his life into a separate subsection covering Early institutionalization. This process has been more rigorous than expected. Do you think this article may be approaching FA status with this level of work? KimChee (talk) 10:34, 1 October 2010 (UTC) / 01:00, 2 October 2010 (UTC)
 * It might be. I might do a copy-edit first before coming to a personal conclusion.  Jappalang (talk) 01:44, 4 October 2010 (UTC)
 * Thank you again for the amount of attention you have put into this. KimChee (talk) 11:56, 4 October 2010 (UTC)