Wikipedia:Peer review/SAT/archive1

SAT
I nominated this article because it is well-written, comprehensive, and covers an important topic. I'd like it to become a featured article. Please help me judge and critique it. Any and all input is appreciated!--User:naryathegreat(t) 02:02, Mar 22, 2005 (UTC)

Not a quote, but it's a figure of speech so it belongs in quotes--User:naryathegreat(t) 22:27, Mar 22, 2005 (UTC) I've tried to make it flow better, using this similar insertions where necessary I've tried to fix this fixed fixed fixed I don't know, I didn't write it Again, I'm not sure, but the fact that everything here is preceded by a sentence which begins "The average score on the 1994 modification of the SAT I was", then I would assume that was obvious
 * "pick the cream of the crop, worldwide" Is this a quote? If so, say who. If not, rm the ""
 * I would use american instead of "U.S." all the time
 * SAT Reasoning Test section should have more paragraphs or something. It's hard to read
 * "ten student-produced answers, no points are removed." This seems to contradict the previous sentence, which says 1/4 pt is docked
 * "Generally speaking, the more popular test, the higher the percentile corresponding to a scaled score of 800." I don't understand what you mean here.
 * In SAT Subject Tests, you have parentheses and inside it an emdash. Consider making a sentence or somethinig
 * In SAT Subject Tests, you should clarify from the start that these are tests a student can choose to take. For a while I thought all 22 tests were administerred.
 * "most recent national average was 508 " when was this?
 * "At 1510, Caltech currently had the" Caltech had 1510 as a score in the '90s or they currently have that score?
 * Yeah, I read that sentence, and no, it's not obvious because "currently" implies in the present while "had" imples in the past. I'll take care of it. --jag123 22:59, 22 Mar 2005 (UTC)

Removed, though I don't particularly care either way' '''You are quite wrong here. Most people internationally are unaware that to attend a U.S. university they will need to take the test and must find out about it from their embassy, or sometimes another location. I have personally had this confirmed by several international students.''' '''That does seem strange. I've fixed it.''' I suppose, by your logic, the section in article on the pros of Free Response questions shouldn't compare itself to pros of Multiple choice questions 
 * "Typically offered 7 times per year. " Unless it's commonly not administered 7 times per year, I'd leave out typically. You don't have to make room for extraordinary circumstances.
 * SATs worldwide section. What's the point of this section? To inform me that someone living in Laos would not have knowledge of the SAT? That someone who wants to go to a foreign school needs to find out how to satisfy the admission criteria? That's taken for granted. Where did you get the idea that most non-americans taking the SAT learned about it from embassies, consulates or what not? I'd expect any half-decent school that commonly "exports" students to another country would be familiar with the admission requirements, whether it's to the US, Australia or Japan. Sure, it's possible that a student has the means to go study in the United States, but for some reason, is in a school that has never heard of the SAT, but I'd be very surprised if this is anything but extremely rare.
 * "Administering the SAT series of tests worldwide arguably makes good sense." What are you saying here? Every educational system in the world should adopt the SAT because it facilitates application to the US? Some of us are happy in our own country, thanks ;)
 * "The education systems of most countries other than the U.S. are more centralized, so there is no need for tests such as the SAT or ACT and non-U.S. secondary school graduates do not normally take such tests." Perhaps this is true (I don't know) but it is not relevant here. Other countries may have SAT-type tests of their own but this article is about _the_ SAT, as defined, not the ACT or similar US college admission tests.

As you can tell, I don't see much value in the SATs worldwide section. Anyone outside the US will be aware that taking the SAT isn't required, or that it's possible that maybe their teacher wouldn't know what it is, or that they aren't informed of the possibility of taking the test. Unless it's commonly assumed in the United States that the SAT is the global standard, I really don't know who is being helped with this information. Apart from mentioning that it's offered worldwide, and that more information can be obtained from an american embassy, consulate, a school, or the SAT website or pamphlet, the rest should go.

On a more general note, the article reads like an essay. Long sentences are used when it can easily be explained in a clear and concise manner. It seems that writing beautifully become more important than clearly explaining the topic. If it's easier / neater to explain something using a list, a table, or having seperate headers, etc, then that should be done and the very long paragraphs should be divided. --jag123 06:13, 22 Mar 2005 (UTC)


 * Mmmm... I came here to comment on the "SATs worldwide" section in particular, but reading your pugnacious reply to jag123, I'm not sure that'll be useful to you. But, well, here goes: I endorse jag123's comments that the article is too essay-like. The "SATs worldwide" section in particular reads too much like guesswork, based on slender facts: it really doesn't matter if the author thinks it would be logical for students in other countries to not normally take such tests; if that issue is going to be mentioned at all (why is it?), what matters are the facts: Do other countries offer or require similar tests? (Yes, many do; mine does.) International comparisons are a very touchy subject on wikipedia, especially if they're based on unsourced clichés about other countries. I'm not trying to start an argument with you, just saying that it can be good to be aware of this before going on WP:FAC. I think this article would run into a nightmare of offended and objecting non-US contributors if the section arrived on FAC looking anything like it does now. Hope this helps. Bishonen | Talk 23:15, 22 Mar 2005 (UTC)


 * I've revised the section to try and be as neutral as possible. I do think that since the SATs are sometimes used worldwide, it makes sense to try and describe it here, since this is the article about the SAT.  However, I didn't write the article and frankly when I looked back over it, a small unbiased part of me found myself agreeing with you.  What do you think now?--User:naryathegreat(t) 23:55, Mar 22, 2005 (UTC)


 * Much better IMO, the new first couple of sentences help a lot. However, now the section is instead repetitious, I suggest you shorten it. These two bits seem to me to be really synonymous, just expressed differently:
 * 1. ''Graduates of schools outside of the United States seeking admission to U.S. colleges/universities are often expected to provide SAT (or ACT) scores. To facilitate this, the SAT tests are offered worldwide.
 * 2. Administering the SAT series of tests worldwide, according to the College Board, facilitates applications from non-U.S. students to U.S. universities and also reduces problems of comparing other countries' education systems with American standards. Bishonen | Talk 16:56, 23 Mar 2005 (UTC)