Wikipedia:Peer review/Sarnia/archive3

Sarnia
This peer review discussion has been closed. I've listed this article for peer review because the last two peer reviews have been archived by the bot before being finished. Please continue here. Thanks to all who are helping!
 * Previous peer review

Thanks, There can be only one...TheKurgan (talk) 15:16, 24 July 2013 (UTC)

Brianboulton comments: My comments up to the "Climate" section are included in the previous review. I will continue to post here as time permits. I'm sorry it's taking so long, but this is a busy time. Brianboulton (talk) 15:37, 24 July 2013 (UTC)
 * Hi, Brian. I have already corrected all the things you brought up previously up to "Climate," including getting rid of the big, white space caused by the photos. I am kind of fond of most of the photos because I took most of them myself as a resident of Sarnia. Of course, I didn't take the ones from space! Chris Hadfield did. I look forward to your new comments. There can be only one...TheKurgan (talk) 18:35, 24 July 2013 (UTC)
 * My screen is still showing an ugly white space between the Climate text and the table, caused by the "Algorail" image. While I can understand your reluctance to delete photos you've taken youself, I'm afraid that when they distort and squeeze the text, you have to be prepared to bite the bullet if you are serious about FA ambitions for the article. The "Algorail" image is marginal to the article, and could be dropped with no noticeable effect on the article. Brianboulton (talk) 16:57, 27 July 2013 (UTC)


 * It hurt, but ✅ There can be only one...TheKurgan (talk) 22:11, 27 July 2013 (UTC)

More comments

 * Demographics
 * The word "Additionally" is inappropriate. Three population figures are given. You need briefly to explain why this is so; the links, particularly that for Census Agglomeration, are not helpful. Removed the extra figures and the sentence containing "additionally." ✅ There can be only one...TheKurgan (talk) 22:11, 27 July 2013 (UTC)
 * "Predominantly" is probably insufficient to describe  the 94% of the population who are white; perhaps "overwhelmingly"? ✅ There can be only one...TheKurgan (talk) 22:11, 27 July 2013 (UTC)
 * "median" should be linked. ✅ There can be only one...TheKurgan (talk) 22:11, 27 July 2013 (UTC)
 * Economy and Infrastructure
 * Remove capital from "infrastructure" in section heading ✅ There can be only one...TheKurgan (talk) 22:11, 27 July 2013 (UTC)
 * "The petrochemical industry is the main economic force in Sarnia." Unnecessary summary introduction - the significant information is in the following sentence. Removed sentence. ✅ There can be only one...TheKurgan (talk) 22:11, 27 July 2013 (UTC)
 * "Polymer Corporation" previously referred to as "the Polymer Corporation". Removed the "the." ✅ There can be only one...TheKurgan (talk) 22:11, 27 July 2013 (UTC)
 * "Government of Canada" - unnecessary linking Removed link ✅ There can be only one...TheKurgan (talk) 22:11, 27 July 2013 (UTC)
 * "Lanxess's Sarnia facility is the only one which currently makes the material" - point made in previous sentence ("the sole producer") Removed the sentence ✅ There can be only one...TheKurgan (talk) 22:11, 27 July 2013 (UTC)
 * Do not place "see also" links in the middle of your text. Should be at start of section as a hatnote. Moved it. ✅ !!!!
 * Be consistent in spacing (20 MW and 97MW) Added space. ✅ There can be only one...TheKurgan (talk) 22:11, 27 July 2013 (UTC)
 * "The University of Western Ontario established a Research Park in Sarnia as part of its expansion" Again, an unnecessary summary preceding the substantive sentence. And the same again with "Bio-based industries are locating in Sarnia." Rewrote one sentence and removed the other. ✅ There can be only one...TheKurgan (talk) 22:11, 27 July 2013 (UTC)
 * Retail and Hospitality
 * Lower case "h" in "hospitality" ✅ There can be only one...TheKurgan (talk) 22:11, 27 July 2013 (UTC)
 * "fourteen stores including an art gallery" - you're including an art gallery as a store? Changed the phrasing. ✅ There can be only one...TheKurgan (talk) 22:11, 27 July 2013 (UTC)
 * I think the term is "convenience" store rather than "convenient". And there is a wikilink Changed and added link. ✅ There can be only one...TheKurgan (talk) 22:11, 27 July 2013 (UTC)
 * Transportation
 * The first paragraph has little or nothing to do with Sarnia. You say: "The Blue Water Bridge links Sarnia's neighbouring village of Point Edward to the city of Port Huron in the United States of America", so there does not seem to be a justification for including this information here. Rephrased. ✅ There can be only one...TheKurgan (talk) 22:11, 27 July 2013 (UTC)
 * All the information in the second paragraph is cited to one source: this. This is an inadequate source for the information in the paragraph, which covers bus, special charter and air services as well as the Toronto-Sarnia rail link. Added additional cites and removed the phrase Care-A-Van. ✅ There can be only one...TheKurgan (talk) 22:11, 27 July 2013 (UTC)
 * Health Care
 * Again, watch capitalisation per MOS: "Health care" ✅ There can be only one...TheKurgan (talk) 22:11, 27 July 2013 (UTC)
 * Spell "HIROC" out ✅
 * Music, Theatre, and Arts
 * link International Symphony Orchestra I already linked it in the lead section, but linked it here to per your suggestion. ✅ There can be only one...TheKurgan (talk) 22:11, 27 July 2013 (UTC)
 * Likewise Michael Learned. What does the verb "headlined" mean? If it means she headed the cast in a theatrical production you should make this clear. Both ✅ There can be only one...TheKurgan (talk) 22:11, 27 July 2013 (UTC)
 * What is a "Ribfest"? Added a description. ✅ There can be only one...TheKurgan (talk) 22:11, 27 July 2013 (UTC)
 * Second paragraph: the source for this is basically an advertisement and would not be acceptable as a RS for FA purposes (incidentally, it doesn't mention a "Gallery Lambton"). You need to find a more reliable source (local papers perhaps?) for this information. Removed text for which I could not find substantiation and added other citations. ✅ There can be only one...TheKurgan (talk) 22:11, 27 July 2013 (UTC)
 * I suggest that you remove trivial information such as the organisation of coach tours (cited to a coach company's advertisement) Added citation about the incorporation and the Board of Directors. ✅ There can be only one...TheKurgan (talk) 22:11, 27 July 2013 (UTC)
 * Hi, Brian. I removed the part about the tours, but I wanted you to know the cited website was not a commercial, for-profit company's site. It was the non-profit website of the Celebration of Lights itself, which offers free tours through the Sarnia-Lambton Economic Partnership. If you feel that this information was unnecessary, so be it, but I wanted you to know I did not link to an advertisement. All in all, however, your comments were very clear and I have fixed all the issues you mentioned. Thank you again for the help. There can be only one...TheKurgan (talk) 22:11, 27 July 2013 (UTC)

Brianboulton (talk) 20:33, 27 July 2013 (UTC)

Awaiting More Comments
Hi, Brianboulton,

Now that you're back, would it be possible for you to give me your next set of comments on Sarnia before the bot archives this peer review? Thanks ahead of time! There can be only one...TheKurgan (talk) 17:31, 9 August 2013 (UTC)
 * It won't be archiving just yet (these coments make sure of that) - and yes, I'll be on to it shortly. Brianboulton (talk) 18:49, 9 August 2013 (UTC)
 * Thanks, Brianboulton! You're a pal. There can be only one...TheKurgan (talk) 20:56, 9 August 2013 (UTC)

Final notes
The information here is quite trivial. Is it really surprising that a town the size of Sarnia has occasionally featured in films? None of the incidents described here strike me as being noteworthy. Removed ✅ There can be only one...TheKurgan (talk) 02:34, 12 August 2013 (UTC)
 * Film industry
 * Attractions
 * " A company called ActiveFit Outdoor Fitness Equipment installed the equipment in the late summer of 2011." This is not encyclopedic information, and looks like advertising. You should delete this sentence. ✅ There can be only one...TheKurgan (talk) 02:34, 12 August 2013 (UTC)
 * "Seventeen of 18 events scheduled to take place in Centennial Park in the summer of 2013 have found alternate venues, however, so the effect on local businesses is expected to be minimal." This is overdetailing of no long-term value. Of what interest will this information be to a reader in, say, five or ten years' time? Suggest delete.
 * Deleted ✅ There can be only one...TheKurgan (talk) 02:34, 12 August 2013 (UTC)


 * Are the casino operations really worth a specific mention? Surely most towns have similar facilities? I'd get rid of this, and the stuff about slot machines. Deleted ✅ There can be only one...TheKurgan (talk) 02:34, 12 August 2013 (UTC)

As a result of these cuts, if you carry them out, and some prose trimming that I have carried out, you should consider merging the short paragraphs that will result. ✅ There can be only one...TheKurgan (talk) 02:34, 12 August 2013 (UTC)

This information may be worth a single sentence somewhere, but to give it a complete subsection is absurd. This is an encyclopedia article about the town, not a tourist brochure or some kind of publicity blurb for the town. I suggest you drastically shorten this and absorb it into the "Attraction" material. ✅ There can be only one...TheKurgan (talk) 02:34, 12 August 2013 (UTC)
 * Fries under the bridge

I will finish this later tonight. Brianboulton (talk) 21:43, 11 August 2013 (UTC)

Again, the tone is wrong, with hyped-up language stressing the successes of the town's teams and the later achievements of a former player. Wording like "Sarnia also boasts..." is entirely inappropriate for an encyclopedia. I simply don't have the time to rewrite the section, but something altogether more modest and less journalistic is necessary. ✅ There can be only one...TheKurgan (talk) 02:34, 12 August 2013 (UTC) time there's an election.
 * Sports
 * Government
 * "Right now" needs to be replaced by something time-specific. e.g. "In 2013..."
 * I don't see the point in giving all these names, which in years to come will be completely meaningless—or will need to be changed every
 * I will keep track and change them as elections happen. There can be only one...TheKurgan (talk) 02:34, 12 August 2013 (UTC)


 * "Sarnia—Lambton": the m-dash is a mistake inherited from the WP article. The correct form is a hyphen, thus "Sarnia-Lambton". ✅ There can be only one...TheKurgan (talk) 02:34, 12 August 2013 (UTC)
 * Education
 * What is "French immersion" education? Explained that it is a school where all communication and classes are in French. ✅ There can be only one...TheKurgan (talk) 02:34, 12 August 2013 (UTC)
 * Could you give an idea of the level and breadth of education attainable at Lambton College? Does it, for example, offer degree courses? ✅ There can be only one...TheKurgan (talk) 02:34, 12 August 2013 (UTC)
 * Media
 * I don't think you need to give the radio frequencies of the four stations ✅ There can be only one...TheKurgan (talk) 02:34, 12 August 2013 (UTC)
 * "... the city does have a community channel, TVCogeco,[178] on Cogeco." I think a little more explanation is needed here, especially of what is meant by "on Cogeco" ✅ There can be only one...TheKurgan (talk) 02:34, 12 August 2013 (UTC)
 * Notable people
 * I don't know what standard you are applying for "notable". If it is Wikipedia's definition of notability, that's a very low bar. In the non-WP world, is a retired NFL referee really a celebrity? However, maybe these people really are acknowledged and respected in the town, so you needn't pay too much attention to me on this one.
 * You should make it clear that Mike Weir is a golfer, and perhaps link the Masters tournament ✅There can be only one...TheKurgan (talk) 02:34, 12 August 2013 (UTC)

There, done at last! This review has extended over several weeks, and I have done my best to be as helpful as possible. I really don't have any more time to spend on it, so it's over and out from me, and the best of luck with the article, wherever you want to take it. Brianboulton (talk) 22:42, 11 August 2013 (UTC)

Final Thanks to Brianboulton
Ok, Brian, I truly appreciate all your help and have implemented 99% of your changes. I am confident now when I resubmit the article for FA consideration. I will let you know how it goes. Thank you very much, again, for the help! There can be only one...TheKurgan (talk) 02:34, 12 August 2013 (UTC)