Wikipedia:Peer review/St John's Ashfield/archive1

St John's Ashfield
This peer review discussion has been closed. I've listed this article for peer review because I've been developing this article almost solo, and would like some fresh eyes to see if I'm going in the right direction. I'm hoping to put it up for GA eventually, but I've never gone through that process before, so would appreciate insight.

Thanks, 99of9 (talk) 07:24, 28 September 2010 (UTC)

Finetooth comments: This is certainly broad in coverage, well-sourced, and generally well-written. The maps are good and so are the images, except that there are too many for the size of the article. MOS:IMAGES and WP:LAYOUT have helpful hints about layout and image arrangement. With further work, I'm sure you can bring this up to GA quality. Here are some other suggestions for further improvement.

Lead
 * "Township" has somewhat different meanings in different countries. Would it be possible to briefly explain what it means in Australia? I couldn't find something good to link to. Perhaps, it the explanation is more than a few words, it could be turned into a note.
 * ✅ I think... see if it is clear and concise now? 99of9 (talk) 10:37, 10 October 2010 (UTC)


 * "The expansive church grounds contain a cemetery dating back to the foundation that contains the remains of many notable Ashfield residents." - This is a bit puzzling. "Foundation" usually means the foundation of a building, but it seems doubtful that a building foundation would contain the remains of residents.
 * ✅ replaced with a decade the year since we're talking about time, no point using relative terms. 99of9 (talk) 10:42, 10 October 2010 (UTC)


 * "The current rector is the Reverend Andrew Katay." - Generally, the Manual of Style suggests leaving off the academic titles and many honorifics. In this case, "rector" is sufficient. Also, "current" is vague. Suggestion: "Andrew Katay has been the rector since X" or "In 2010, Andrew Katay is the rector."
 * ✅ 99of9 (talk) 12:06, 8 October 2010 (UTC)

Early contributors
 * "Another benefactor was Dr William Bland" - Instead of "Dr", the Manual of Style prefers a brief description. "William Bland, the physician after whom Bland Street was named," would probably do. Ditto for other similar constructions in the article.
 * ✅ except for one doctor I can't find a first name for. --99of9 (talk) 12:43, 18 October 2010 (UTC)


 * Text sandwiches are a layout no-no in Wikipedia articles and so are images that overlap sections. The images in this article are excellent, but there are so many of them that they squash the text in places and overlap sections in other places. A variety of solutions are possible, including eliminating subheads for very short sections like "Early contributors", expanding the text, moving the images to different places, removing some of the images altogether and trusting the people who want to see more will click on the Commons link in External links. It might also help to render the inscription on the foundation stone plaque as plain text inside double quotation marks (not single) instead of using a text box.
 * ✅ I've basically fixed this, but will keep an eye out as other things change. 99of9 (talk) 06:23, 13 October 2010 (UTC)


 * "Dr William Bland was a doctor and politician who had been sent to the colony for manslaughter after a pistol duel." - I know you mean that he was convicted of manslaughter elsewhere, but this might be interpreted to mean that he was sent to the colony in order to commit manslaughter.
 * ✅ 99of9 (talk) 00:46, 11 October 2010 (UTC)

Church building
 * "he purchased an additional 2½ acres of land" - Imperial measures should also be given in metric. I like to use the convert template, like this: 2.5 acre. Ditto for other instances of imperial measures in the article.
 * ✅ all areas. Not sure if there are any other imperials. 99of9 (talk) 10:55, 10 October 2010 (UTC)


 * "After twenty-nine years," - Numbers from 10 up are usually rendered as digits unless they start a sentence. Ditto for other instances in the article.
 * ✅ the 29 example, will look for others. 99of9 (talk) 01:14, 8 October 2010 (UTC)


 * "These were built during the period 1874-1875 at a cost of around £150 - raised without the help of grants... " - Date ranges and page ranges take en dashes rather than hyphens. Rather than a spaced hyphen for a separator, use a spaced en dash or an unspaced em dash. I'll run a script to fix at least some of these.
 * ✅ Thanks for doing this. 99of9 (talk) 12:34, 10 October 2010 (UTC)


 * "from the Government" - Lowercase "government".
 * ✅ 99of9 (talk) 01:14, 8 October 2010 (UTC)

Music
 * "a "pressure equaliser". The façade pipes were sprayed to a dull gold colour, covering over the original diapering, described desparagingly at the time as "all over the pipes without much rhyme or reason; fleurs-de-lys in profusion, dots, bands, triangles in all the colours of the rainbow rioted in confusion".- Each direct quotation needs an inline citation to the source directly after the end punctuation of the quote.
 * ✅ Although I wasn't sure whether the citation went after the final quote mark or after the following full stop.


 * Nothing inside a direct quote should be linked, so "fleurs-de-lys" in the quotation above should be unlinked. You might add a note that explains it or recast the sentence in a way that allows you to link. Ditto for the links inside the quote in the "Site development" section.
 * ✅ I think this is an unfortunate decision by the MOS. I think most of these links would have been useful to the reader, but it would be excessively verbose to recast the quotes just to include the wikilinks (especially those in the foundation stone quote).99of9 (talk) 12:32, 10 October 2010 (UTC)


 * "carried out by R. A. and D. A. Wiltshire.[31][27]" - It's customary to arrange serial citation in ascending order. [27][31} would be the correct order here, and similar sequences in the article should be made ascending.
 * ✅ I think I found them all. 99of9 (talk) 12:11, 10 October 2010 (UTC)


 * "This necessitated removal of floor joints" - Should that be floor joists rather than "joints"?
 * ✅ :-) 99of9 (talk) 12:56, 8 October 2010 (UTC)


 * "The 1883 Hill and Son pipe organ, located in the north-eastern corner of the transept." - Captions consisting solely of a sentence fragment don't take a terminal period.
 * ✅ throughout article. 99of9 (talk) 11:25, 10 October 2010 (UTC)

Site development
 * "It cost £625 10s" - Most readers will recognize the pound symbol but may not know what 10s means. Should this be linked or spelled out on first use?
 * ✅ wikilinked 99of9 (talk) 10:55, 10 October 2010 (UTC)

Surrounding parishes
 * "As the population of Sydney's Inner West grew, many of the Anglican churches in the area were planted by the congregation of St John's... " - "Planted" might be misunderstood. Would "established" be better?
 * ✅ 99of9 (talk) 11:39, 10 October 2010 (UTC)

Rectors
 * The Manual of Style advises turning bulleted and numbered lists into straight prose if feasible. I think the two long lists near the bottom of the article would be fine as straight with a little tinkering, and that's what I'd advise. WP:MOS has details. Ditto for the short list in the "Cemetery" section.
 * ✅ --99of9 (talk) 12:31, 18 October 2010 (UTC)


 * WP:MOSBOLD advises against using bolding for emphasis. I would simply unbold all of the bolded names of people in the two lists.
 * ✅ I think this is an unfortunate decision by the MOS. The bolding certainly helped if someone wanted to look up a particular rector (e.g. if he was referred to elsewhere in the article). 99of9 (talk) 12:19, 10 October 2010 (UTC)

Current ministry


 * Maybe just "ministry" and then specifying the starting date for Katay. The idea is to avoid creating an article with many words like "today", "now", and "currently" that will seem up-to-date five years from now but won't be.
 * ✅ 99of9 (talk) 11:37, 10 October 2010 (UTC)


 * "There are currently three Sunday services at Ashfield, and two at Five Dock." - This may not be worth adding since it is probably subject to change, and most readers will not find the information useful.
 * Not sure I agree on this one, congregations are where the most significant ministry of a church happens. They seem fitting for a section about the church's ministry, and give a sense of the size of the ministry. Also they typically change about as often as rectors, so this is no more time sensitive than the rector. --99of9 (talk) 10:41, 20 October 2010 (UTC)

Map
 * File:Ashfield parish map.svg is really nice. You might add to the license page where the details for the overlays came from.
 * ✅ 99of9 (talk) 01:11, 8 October 2010 (UTC)

I hope these suggestions prove helpful. If so, please consider reviewing another article, especially one from the PR backlog at WP:PR; that is where I found this one. I don't usually watch the PR archives or check corrections or changes. If my comments are unclear, please ping me on my talk page. Finetooth (talk) 04:09, 5 October 2010 (UTC)