Wikipedia:Peer review/Street Fighting Man/archive1

Street Fighting Man
Looking for a comprehensive review of this re-written article. Stan weller 04:16, 23 July 2007 (UTC)

Review by User:Wasted Time R
Not bad overall, but some problems: Wasted Time R 11:01, 23 July 2007 (UTC)
 * The bit about it originally being "Pay Your Dues" is a minor historical point and does not belong in the lead section.
 * What does belong in the lead section is a recap of the song's significance, musically and politically.
 * The RS 500 listing should probably go in the intro as well. Since SFM wasn't a real hit single, you need to convey that is nevertheless one of their major songs.
 * The part of the last paragraph Keith quote in the 'Inspiration' section about how it was recorded, belongs in the 'Recording' section.
 * The 'Release' section says SFM has been a "staple" of live shows since 1969, but the Mick quote in 'Inspiration' says he had to be persuaded to put it on the Voodoo Lounge Tour, which suggests it was a rarity.  Need to explain more clearly what tours it was on, what tours it was not.
 * What's a 'shehani'?
 * Bruce Springsteen played it on his Born in the U.S.A. Tour. I'll try to add something about that.
 * Why the 'See also' to Mods and Rockers? Seems like a completely different kind of street fighting.

Review by User:Mikerussell

 * I think the strongest part is the detail about recording and Jagger and Richards ambivalence about the songs meaning. That makes this article unusually good for wikipedia. The long quotes usually don't work well in song articles but if they are offset as I changed, I think they are valid. Personally, I know jack-squat about guitar playing and recording so if I found the comments interesting, even if don't completely understand what a "London Jazz Kit" is; I think others will to.
 * A weaker part is to link it to direct political events. For 2 reasons,
 * Jagger and Richards seem to be very wishy-washy about this- which is most interesting thing in the article. One could ask does it have any "political" meaning. Interesting how Richards in 1971 doesn't want to tie it up as a political song, and obviously 20 years later Jagger is just as luke warm about this. (Dave Marsh's quote is quite a good observation on this.)
 * This might sound stupid, but do people really listen to the lyrics closely, I mean took me a long time before I heard Jagger wanted to "Kill the King". The song just has a visceral power- a punk track before punk, sort of speak. Maybe that is really why it has endured.
 * But the articles main problem is the last three sections (Cover Versions, References to the song and See also) should be scrapped and incorporated elsewhere. In opinion, I would try to order the article as:
 * Inspiration, Recording and Release (include Stones interview and quotes part and put it all together)
 * Critical views: the music critic's comments and maybe the Springsteen mention in the section.
 * The 8 or 9 point form notes and the "Cover Version" sections should be blended into a narrative about the songs Legacy and use in popular culture, but this piddley-diddly sort of crap about the Buffalo Sabres using it should be deleted entirely- who cares but Sabres fans- it can be stuck in the hockey team's article. Someone needs to be ruthless about these sorts of additions, they just make wikipedia look amateurish.
 * I don't agree with 2 points by User:Wasted Time R.
 * "Pay Your Dues" deserves to be where it is in the article, it was recorded and is widely bootlegged.
 * comment about the confusion of it being a staple of the show- Jagger's quote doesn't change the fact it is a staple of live shows, that's a fact, whatever the lead singer's opinion of it is.--Mikerussell 23:54, 23 July 2007 (UTC)