Wikipedia:Peer review/Street newspaper/archive1

Street newspaper

 * A script has been used to generate a semi-automated review of the article for issues relating to grammar and house style; it can be found on the automated peer review page for March 2009.
 * A script has been used to generate a semi-automated review of the article for issues relating to grammar and house style; it can be found on the automated peer review page for March 2009.

This peer review discussion has been closed. Hoping to take this to FAC at some point. Got a lot of help and suggestions from my GAN reviewer, and would appreciate another pair of eyes to go through it now as well.

Thanks, r ʨ anaɢ talk/contribs 00:25, 2 March 2009 (UTC)

Brianboulton comments: This is part one of a review which might extend over a few days. It's an interesting subject, one which should be better known and understood, and the article is a decent shot at making it so.
 * Article structure: It's odd to see the History section tucked at the end. I think it should be at the beginning, to provide the context for what follows.
 * GAN reviewer suggested putting the History section after the Description section to give it more context...my original reaction was also to say that that seemed weird. He convinced me at the time, but now that I think about it, if I expand the lead as you suggested below then I can probably get away with putting History back in the beginning.  (It will make the reference numbers go crazy and I might have to move around some of the wikilinks, but that's not a huge deal.) r ʨ anaɢ talk/contribs 23:44, 8 March 2009 (UTC)
 * Have beefed up the lead, and then moved the History section back to the top.


 * Lead:
 * '''"networks of social benefits" - what does this phrase mean? Does it mean information about social security, or something more? Either way, it needs explaining
 * I think it has more to do with getting homeless people in touch with people who know about service providers, etc., and with each other. But it's kind of vague in my head, I think I'd like to go back to the library and check out the original wording in some of these books before I try to clarify it in the article, just so I don't botch anything. r ʨ anaɢ talk/contribs 13:24, 10 March 2009 (UTC)
 * A bit of repetition, e.g. "marginalized individuals" appearing twice in close proximity, and some wordy phrasing, e.g. "generally seek to provide". I suggest you simplify the third sentence to: "Street papaers also aim to give these individuals employment opportunities, community networking, and a voice." I think the sentence should end here, and what follows your semicolon should be a new sentence.
 * '''However, I'm again a bit stumped, by the term "community networking" which needs further explanation.
 * United States and Western Europe don't need wikilinks.
 * Overall, the lead tells us what street newspapers are, and mentions a current "ongoing controversy", but it does not provide a complete overview of the article. It doesn't for example mention any of the history of the papers. Extending the lead to comply wth WP:LEAD will be essential if you have FA ambitions.
 * I've expanded it now; still need to make some tweaks. r ʨ anaɢ talk/contribs 03:01, 11 March 2009 (UTC)
 * Description
 * Use of bullet-points for short lists is not generally approved by FACs. Personally I've nothing against your presenting this information in this way, but you might find that others see the matter differently.
 * Something wrong here: "While street many street..."
 * More wordiness: "many people who buy street newspapers do so not to gain information and access the content of the newspaper, but to support, and express solidarity with, the homeless vendor." Suggest "many people who buy street newspapers do so to support and express solidarity with the homeless vendor, rather than to read the paper".
 * What does "its" refer to in "its readership at the time..."
 * Operations and business
 * I'd delete "up front" from the first sentence. It serves no purpose.
 * Can you quantify, even approximately, what is meant by "a small fraction"? A quarter? A tenth? Less?
 * This section, and particularly the second paragraph, seems to be specific to the United States.It might be as well to spell this out, e.g. by saying: "In the United States, many papers receive aid..." etc
 * Actually, I think most of this stuff applies to all street newspapers, although the most information is available (in English, at least) for the US ones. Government/charity aid does seem to be slightly more common in the US, so I added "particularly in the United States" to that bit. r ʨ anaɢ talk/contribs 13:29, 10 March 2009 (UTC)
 * Overuse of the term "street papers" (for example, "...new street papers.[13] Many street papers..."
 * I tried to trim out a couple instances of them here. If it's still too much, I'll probably have to do some slightly wider rewording to get rid of more. r ʨ anaɢ talk/contribs 13:29, 10 March 2009 (UTC)
 * Who are the "advocates"? Not lawyers, surely? Best avoid the term and use something like "supporters"
 * Also, avoid abbreviations like "that's". It has to be "that is".
 * Descriptions like "socially entrepreneurial" are a bit indigestible. Is there any simpler way to put it?
 * Re the Big Issue, which in (not "as of") 2001 "earned the equivalent of 20 million USD". We really need to know what this $US 20 million equivalent actually represented. The entire revenue of the Big Issue? The surplus, after production and operating costs? The amount that was distributed among street vendors? Can you clarify?
 * I believe that's referring to their profits after production and operating costs, so I tried to clarify by just adding "in profits". r ʨ anaɢ talk/contribs 23:52, 8 March 2009 (UTC)
 * It should be "as few as", not "as little as".

That's all I can do for the moment, but I will come back to it. Brianboulton (talk) 23:33, 8 March 2009 (UTC)


 * Thanks for the comments. I'll see what I can do to address the points you've raised. r ʨ anaɢ talk/contribs 23:44, 8 March 2009 (UTC)

Review continuing
 * Coverage (I have done some minor ce work in this section)
 * "a how-to and recipe section" - sounds like more than one section. Could "how-to" be clarified?
 * I suggest the semicolon after "recipe section" becomes a full stop and a new sentence starts with "Likewise..." A single sentence is too long and convoluted.
 * "proponents of street newspapers" - is "proponents" the right word in this context? It is the content of street newspapers that advocates for the poor and homeless, surely?
 * Social benefits: no special comment on this section
 * Challenges and criticisms: (minor copyedits in this section too)
 * "...papers face financial difficulties because of underfunding". Well yes, they would, but to leave the sentence here doesn't give much information. Can you expand?
 * I moved that bit down to the paragraph that is sort of a quick & dirty list of things, as I don't think there's much more I can say about it. <b class="Unicode">r ʨ anaɢ</b> talk/contribs 02:35, 11 March 2009 (UTC)
 * "scammed" is possibly a bit slangy for an encyclopedia. "Swindled" or "cheated" might be preferable, though it's up to you.
 * "Swindled" and "cheated" didn't sound quite right to me, but I agree with your concern, so I changed it to "for fear that it was a scam" (which I think is the original wording I had back in the day anyway). <b class="Unicode">r ʨ anaɢ</b> talk/contribs 02:28, 11 March 2009 (UTC)
 * A whole sentence should not be in parentheses. This sentence begins "In response to these criticisms...". I'd leave out the parentheses and "to these criticisms, thus: "In response, organizations in Montreal...etc"
 * No apostrophe after "vendors"
 * What is the evidence that The Big Issue is widely read, as distinct from widely purchased and thrown away?
 * I can't access the site with that particular ref right now, but I'm pretty sure it specifically singled out TBI as being "widely read"; also, both that ref and the Heinz ref specifically refer to it as "the world's most widely read street newspaper" or something like that. I guess technically we can't assume that the people who are buying it are reading it, but given that it's sort of a tabloid/pop culture magazine and that it sells so much more than any other street newspaper, I imagine it's being read, not just bought for the heck of it. <b class="Unicode">r ʨ anaɢ</b> talk/contribs 02:28, 11 March 2009 (UTC)
 * "Other difficulties street newspapers face include high turnover due to "transient" or unreliable staff..." I'd reword this. The reference to "turnover" is confusing despite the link, and "transient" shouldn't be in quotes. Thus: Other difficulties street newspapers face include the high turnover of transient or unreliable staff..."
 * Reworded as suggested, although I think I should keep "transient" in quotes, as it's the term the source used. <b class="Unicode">r ʨ anaɢ</b> talk/contribs 02:35, 11 March 2009 (UTC)
 * Can the last sentence be tightened up a bit? It's rather vague at present ("New York City, Cleveland and other locations...", "sometimes prevented..." etc. I suggest: "...; for example, in New York City, and also Cleveland, laws  have prevented vendors from selling papers on public transit or other high-traffic areas, making it difficult for the papers to earn revenue."
 * '''Schism among street newspapers: I'm a bit uneasy with your choice of the word "schism" which has heavy religious connotations. I would give the section the simple title "Divisions"
 * That's a good point, although I feel "divisions" makes it sound a little more like it's about organization or heirarchy. How about "Debate"? <b class="Unicode">r ʨ anaɢ</b> talk/contribs 02:38, 11 March 2009 (UTC)
 * Opening sentence too wordy. I suggest: " Among proponents and publishers of street newspapers there is disagreement over how street newspapers should be run and what their goals should be, reflecting a so-called "clash between two philosophies for advocating social change."
 * The quote at the end is really too short to be giveb blockquote format. I'd integrate it into the text.

I will come back and deal with the remainder later. Brianboulton (talk) 16:48, 10 March 2009 (UTC)

Review concluded

Since I looked yesterday, there have been major changes, including the sensible one of bringing the History section to the start of the article. The following are some comments on the History section. One general comment about the prose throughout the article - '''overuse of semicolons. The odd semicolon can enrich prose, but too many makes for irritating reading. Some of them, in this article, could easily be replaced by full stops.'''


 * Historical foundations
 * I would temper the opening sentence slightly, by saying that the modern street newspaper "is believed to have begun with the 1989..." etc. I would also drop the quotes around "modern street newspaper".
 * Would that be a bit weasely, though? I can see pros and cons with either wording...I guess I'll think about it a bit.
 * "at least", at this sentence's end, has no function and can be deleted.
 * You make it seem as though War Cry is no more, which is assuredly not the case!
 * What, actually, is a hobo? The term is distinctly American, and its meaning is unclear here in the UK. A possible link, or explanation, or alternative term, might be helpful.
 * Linked and added a brief appositive. <b class="Unicode">r ʨ anaɢ</b> talk/contribs 22:58, 11 March 2009 (UTC)
 * Modern street newspapers
 * Why five separate citations for a commonplace fact?
 * I think I was just adding them incrementally, and wanted robust sourcing just in case someone tried to come up and say that X street paper was started before Street News. But you're right, I don't need that many footnotes; I've removed the first 3 and kept the last two, which are more RS (one from Ryerson Review of Journalism, one from the Encyclopedia of Homelessness). <b class="Unicode">r ʨ anaɢ</b> talk/contribs 22:58, 11 March 2009 (UTC)
 * "...in the 1989 and the early 1990s"?
 * Fifth sentence ends "in the west". I think this is redundant, since you have made it clear earlier in the sentence that you are talking about the western world.
 * The form "...nations such as France..." etc is not good prose. You mean France, Russia and Germany, not nations like them. So I suggest you begin the sentence: "There are ne street newspapers in Canada, in France, Russsis, Germany and Sweden..." etc.
 * That's a good point. I still would like to group the European nations together, though, and separate from Canada, so I tried "There are now street newspapers in Canada; in European nations, including France, Russia,...".  That meant creating another semicolon...but I'll try to clean those up after this. <b class="Unicode">r ʨ anaɢ</b> talk/contribs 22:58, 11 March 2009 (UTC)
 * Two late consecutive sentences begin with "These organizations..." Try to vary.

I hope that you have found these comments helpful. Brianboulton (talk) 21:41, 11 March 2009 (UTC)