Wikipedia:Peer review/Sugar Ray Robinson/archive1

Sugar Ray Robinson
This peer review discussion has been closed. I've listed this article for peer review because I would like to get it to FA status eventually and think a peer review would be appropriate. I will be buying some more books when finances allow so I can add more secondary sources, but would like comments on what is there now.

Thanks, AaronY (talk) 22:26, 3 December 2010 (UTC)


 * Comments from Jappalang


 * There are several dead links used by the article as sources; these should be fixed.

Sources
 * Why is boxrec.com used, especially when below it states "BoxRec : this data may be incomplete and/or inaccurate"? Case in point: "Total fights" is claimed to be 200 because of boxrecs; however, numerous books including the biographies used in this article has pointed to 202 as the number.  Why is a fansite used?  Use the books that have been written about this boxing legend.


 * What is this "Gene Fullmer" link (http://www.ibhof.com/fullmer.htm), which is now a homestead front page? What makes it a reliable source?


 * Why is the TV.com page, a page that seemingly can be edited by any one, used to reference Sugar Ray's guest appearance when more reliable sources are available?


 * The www.cmgworldwide.com links are dead; what makes them reliable?


 * I believe boxing.about.com/od/history/a/ring_punchers.htm should not be linked per WP:LINKVIO; several AFDs have determined that complete reproductions of Top X lists are copyright violations unless the host was given permission to do so. Find the magazine and provide details of its article for the citation.


 * www.secondsout.com/Legends/inthiscornercfm.cfm?ccs=402&cs=9896 does not point to an article by Patrick Kehoe.


 * Use Google books to have an idea of which books would be best, and consult the associated Wikiprojects on which would be best used. Look for biographies (it seems some of which are used in this article) written by acknowledged experts in the field.  Several magazines also have articles on the man and his relatives; these can be used to expand his personal life section (provided they do not contradict more reliable accounts).


 * Check out the university published books; these tend to have the better "quality" so as to speak (since the higher-education centres have vetted their accuracy and topical insight). They offer a look at the man through a different set of eyes than sports biographies; these books can help in expanding sections beyond Sugar Ray's impact on the sports.

Early life
 * "... first obtain an AAU membership card."
 * Abbreviations should be stated in full on first mention, accompanied by the abbreviated name. See Manual of Style.


 * "... by borrowing a card from his friend Ray Robinson."
 * The source did not state Ray Robinson as his friend. Other sources (deadtree ones) have pointed out that they were just from the same gym (although Sugar Ray knew of Ray Robinson).  Sugar Ray was not said to have initiated the "borrowing".  It seems George gave him the card to use.  Whatever the case, it might invite less controversy to say "... by using a card from an older gym mate, Ray Robinson, who had unexpectedly stopped boxing." or such (and cite the sources).


 * "Subsequently told that his style was "sweet as sugar" by future manager George Gainford, Smith Jr. became known as "Sugar" Ray Robinson."
 * Was it the manager or the reporter who said "sweet as sugar" (sources differ)? It might be better to find the most reliable sources and look into this (or specifically spell out who said it was George).


 * "..., and actually lived on the same block as Louis in Detroit when Robinson was 11 and Louis was 17."
 * The sentence is overly dramatic (as if it was such a big deal). It might be more appropriate to cast it as "...; coincidentally, in 1932 Robinson and Louis lived in the same block in Detroit"

Early career
 * "Robinson then defeated his childhood idol former champion Henry Armstrong. Robinson only fought Armstrong because Armstrong was in need of finances. By now Armstrong was an old fighter, and Robinson later stated that he carried Armstrong."
 * Uncited, and what does "carried Armstrong" mean? The project's main audience may not be familiar with boxing.


 * "... the only other mark on Robinson's record ..."
 * Beware. There were only two entries on Robinson's record, or is "mark" here used as a boxing jargon?  Be explicit; i.e. "negative mark".

Welterweight Champion
 * "Before that fight, Robinson had a dream that he was going to accidentally kill Doyle in the ring. As a result, he decided to pull out of the fight. However, a priest and a minister convinced him to go ahead with the bout. His foe, however, died from the injuries he sustained."
 * The source attributed this to "Some people said". It is not proven fact and should not be stated as such.  Furthermore, the source makes no mention of "a priest and a minister".

Stopping review of the boxing history content here; I think content would best be reviewed when more reliable sources (books) have been integrated, and the uncited information are referenced.

Decline
 * TKO: abbreviation as before

After retiring as a boxer
 * Were there any studies that investigated his Alzheimer's disease? Note that this requires high-quality reliable sources per WP:MEDRS.


 * What other business ventures/career did he attempt? There seem to be something missing (see the restaurant concern below).

Personal life
 * How was his relationship with his family members? Does he have any other hobbies?

Legacy
 * Three quotes is too many. This is not a quote farm.  One could be fine; although it can be argued that all can be integrated into the prose.


 * Instead of listing year by year the accolades given to him by each publication, would it be better to collate and present them by theme? This may not be a big deal; the number of accolades is not so long yet as to make it a repetitive "listy" read.


 * "His glamorous restaurant, Sugar Ray's, ..."
 * What/where is this restaurant? Why is it suddenly mentioned here?  What happened to it?


 * "... such as Sugar Ray Leonard, Sugar Shane Mosley, and UFC fighter "Sugar" Rashad Evans."
 * I would rather the homage list be restricted to established notable fighters. Leonard and Mosley are world title holders, same as the original Sugar Ray; it seems mighty undue to list Evans along them.

See also
 * Why is "List of male boxers" here? This is such a general link that it serves no point at all.


 * "Ring Magazine pound for pound" could have been linked in the sentence that mentions the magazine's ranking of Sugar Ray as the best pound for pound, so it is redundant here.

Images
 * File:Sugar Ray Robinson 1966.jpg
 * I think from reading the article, this photograph should not be taken in 1966 if the text is correct. His last ring appearance was Madison Square Garden on December 10, 1965, right?

Of great concern is that there are several uncited sentences in the article. Please cite them to the sources used for these sentences. Grammar-wise, there is quite a heavy use of noun plus -ing constructs; please refer to User:Tony1/Noun plus -ing on the issues with these constructs and how to resolve/improve them. Jappalang (talk) 08:14, 11 December 2010 (UTC)