Wikipedia:Peer review/Texas hold 'em/archive1

Texas hold 'em
Through the efforts of many editors other than myself, I think this article has become very good. It provides a nice overview of the game while not engaging in too many details. I think its not too far from being a FAC, but I would like to see what other's think. I'm interested in all comments, particularly how easy the article is to follow for people who don't know the game. Also, if you think the article is too short, I would appreciate suggestions on what might be added. Thanks for the help! --best, kevin [kzollman][talk] 19:40, 18 May 2006 (UTC)


 * Please provide WP:CITE information for references/footnotes. See also WP:CITE/ES; templates like and  may be useful here. (specifically here, I'm looking to see the date of access for the references)


 * Per WP:MOS, headings generally do not start with the word "The". For example,  ==The Biography==  would be changed to  ==Biography== .


 * Per WP:MOS, headings generally should not repeat the title of the article. For example, if the article was Ferdinand Magellan, instead of using the heading  ==Magellan's journey== , use  ==Journey== .


 * Please alphabetize the categories and interlanguage links.
 * Thanks, AndyZ t 22:09, 19 May 2006 (UTC)


 * Andy, thank you for your comments! I could use some help with your suggestions.
 * I have switched to cite web, but we are already using cite book. Did I miss one?
 * We have only one heading using "the" which is "the showdown", "Showdown" is not often used by itself and sounds strange.  Is it that distracting?
 * I'm happy to change "texas hold 'em in popular culture" and "hold 'em as a spectator sport", but I cannot think of alternatives which capture the same meaning. Do you have any suggestions?
 * Err, the article is only in one category and I think the interwikis are already alphabatized.
 * Again, thank you very much for your comment. --best, kevin [kzollman][talk] 22:52, 19 May 2006 (UTC)


 * You can change "texas hold 'em in popular culture" to simply "In popular culture", and the other to "Spectator sport". The removal of the word "The" is only suggested; it does not have to be removed. And now, the interwiki links are alphabetized (I just fixed it). Thanks, AndyZ t 23:42, 19 May 2006 (UTC)


 * Thanks! I changed the headers.  I think I'll leave the "the" in the other one.  Thanks for fixing the interwikis, I missed those two. --best, kevin [kzollman][talk] 02:11, 20 May 2006 (UTC)

I thought the article is informative and reads very well. A few miscellaneous comments:
 * the article ought to use a consistent spacing and capitalization of the name of the game. right now various parts of the article use "Texas Hold 'em" "Texas hold 'em" "Texas Hold'em" etc
 * some consistency in ranks of cards would be nice too. right now alternately uses "eight" or "8", "Queen" or "Q", etc.
 * the article attributes the phrase "cadillac of poker" to the movie rounders, but I believe doyle brunson used the term in supersystem, which predates the movie.
 * I'm not sure I agree with the following sentence:
 * Like most variants of poker, the objective of Texas Hold 'em is to win the pot—the sum of the money bet by oneself and other players
 * The grander goal of any serious player is to win money over time (perhaps subject to time constraints in a tournament, perhaps not in a cash game). An expert player may play an individual hand in a manner that loses money (e.g. calling down an unknown opponent to get to see his hole cards, or making image plays) if that player believes it will increase his chances of winning more money in future hands.

That's all for now, I may add more ideas later. &mdash;Kymacpherson 05:14, 22 May 2006 (UTC)
 * the description in the intro says the game is most commonly played with between 2 and 10 players. But casinos will play 11-handed under some circumstances.  This is certainly debatable, but I might prefer to change the intro to say something like 2 to 11 players, with 10 being the most common table size, or something to that effect.
 * Ky, thanks for your comments, most are now fixed. Please let me know if you see any of these I missed.  With regard to the ultimate goal, you are definitely right.  I think that writing the sentence to be exactly correct would sacrifice clarity for those individuals who are unfamiliar with the game.  Do you think this fact is sufficiently important to warrant inclusion in a footnote or in the text?  Personally, my preference would just be to leave it out.  Again, thanks for your help!  --best, kevin [kzollman][talk] 02:46, 23 May 2006 (UTC)
 * I understand the desire not to overly complicate the description. Here's a suggestion, which differs only slightly from the existing text:
 * Like most variants of poker, the objective of Texas Hold 'em is to win pots, where a pot is the sum of the money bet by oneself and other players in a hand
 * &mdash;Kymacpherson 12:09, 23 May 2006 (UTC)
 * Very nice. I have changed the sentence in the article.  Thanks! --best, kevin [kzollman][talk] 00:27, 24 May 2006 (UTC)