Wikipedia:Peer review/The Climb (song)/archive1

The Climb (song)
This peer review discussion has been closed. I've listed this article for peer review because I think it has the potential to be a Featured Article in Wikipedia. It only needs some copy-editing jobs and minor details to take care of.

Thanks, ipodnano05 * leave@message 22:59, 5 December 2009 (UTC)

Comments from
 * You said you wanted to know what to work on before taking to FAC, so I looked at the sourcing and referencing with that in mind. I reviewed the article's sources as I would at FAC.
 * What makes the following reliable sources?
 * http://www.moviemuser.co.uk/Features/1239/Peter-Chelsom-Talks-Hannah-Montana-The-Movie.aspx
 * http://top40.about.com/od/singles/gr/mileycyrusclimb.htm
 * http://www.musicnotes.com/download/viewer/default.asp?ppn=MN0073289&mnuid=TZNPBYDXPJVUNXU4F0D5SXQYCBKQB7G7181GC7G7&dltype=0 (also, does this site have permission to host copyrighted material?)
 * http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2cv51tX0KBs
 * The last six refs are just bare urls, they need publishers, link titles, and last access dates at the very least.
 * Hope this helps. Please note that I don't watchlist Peer Reviews I've done. If you have a question about something, you'll have to drop a note on my talk page to get my attention. (My watchlist is already WAY too long, adding peer reviews would make things much worse.) 21:29, 14 December 2009 (UTC)
 * Corrected the bare url additions by other users and those sources are reliable. Thanks!!! -- ipodnano05 * leave@message 23:11, 14 December 2009 (UTC)
 * There are still bare references. The last two references are unreliable. Youtube is not allowed as a source for wiki. DragonZero (talk · contribs) 08:33, 17 December 2009 (UTC)
 * Thanks for looking, I'll format them. If it is the official youtube of the organization/artist ( in the article, the youtube's are GMTV and Joe McElderry's), are they allowable? Liqudluck ✽ talk  22:53, 17 December 2009 (UTC)

Con-nominator with Ipodnano05. If you decide to review this article, please note that the last section (Joe McElderry cover) is very new and constantly being edited (this will be sorted out before FA). It is also the source of the bare urls noted above. Please focus on the other sections. Thanks! Liqudluck ✽ talk 22:53, 17 December 2009 (UTC)

Ruhrfisch comments: I agree this looks prett close to FAC, here are some suggestions for improvement. Hope this helps. If my comments are useful, please consider peer reviewing an article, especially one at Peer review/backlog (which is how I found this article). I do not watch peer reviews, so if you have questions or comments, please contact me on my talk page. Yours, Ruhrfisch &gt;&lt;&gt; &deg; &deg; 01:11, 22 December 2009 (UTC)
 * I agree this needs a copyedit - there are people who will do this listed at the bottom of WP:PR/V. I will try to point out some places that need a copyedit, but not an exhaustive list.
 * I am not sure the first sentence meets WP:LEAD, specifically the part on first sentence: The article should begin with a declarative sentence, answering two questions for the nonspecialist reader: "What (or who) is the subject?" and "Why is this subject notable?" - since the Miley Cyrus version is the most well known, should that be mentioned in the first sentence too (though not all the details in the current second sentence)
 * This article has seven images and one sound file, six of which are Fair use (or should be, see below). This seems to me to be a big potential problem at WP:FAC - see WP:NFCC. The images from the videos seem most "decorative" / least justified as fair use (especially the Joe McElderry video image - we already know what he looks like from the single artwork, what does the video clip add to the reader's understanding? Ditto for the Cyrus video image).
 * The license for File:Miley Cyrus during American Idol rehearsals.jpg is almost certainly not correct - if this was filmed as a part of American Idol (even a reheasral), it is copyrighted and not fair use. The copyright almost certainly does not belong to the uploader and as a fair use image, I fail to see how it adds to the reader's understanding under WP:NFCC. I have nominated the image for speedy deletion on Commons
 * Try to avoid needless repetition. For example in the lead, rewriting could avoid repeating US in The song achieved worldwide success and became a top ten hit on charts in Australia, Canada, Norway, and the United States. In the United States, the song peaked at number four on the Billboard Hot 100 and became the eighth best selling digital single of 2009. Five months after ... so perhaps song achieved worldwide success and became a top ten hit on charts in Australia, Canada, Norway, and the United States. In the United States, the song peaked at number four on the Billboard Hot 100 and became the eighth best selling digital single of 2009. Five months after its release, the single was certified double platinum by the Recording Industry Association of America (RIAA). The song achieved worldwide success and became a top ten hit on charts in Australia, Canada, and Norway.
 * Problems with this. The first two sentences could be combined, the third sentence has a capital letter at the start of a phrase (should be lower case). The last sentence says "...was the first time the song had ever been heard." which seems to impy that somehow no one had ever heard the song ever before (when writing, performing, recording and producing it. I used strikes for thing to remove and [] for additions: The song's accompanying music video was directed by Matthew Rolston. It [and] depicts scenes of Cyrus climbing a mountain or singing intercut with clips of Hannah Montana: The Movie. Cyrus promoted the song with several live performances; Her [her] first, at the Kids Inaugural: "We Are the Future" event on January 19, 2009, was the first time the song had ever been heard [in public]. Could also end as was the first time the song had ever been performed in public.
 * Would it mkae sense to rewrite this starting with "The Climb", so perhaps something like: ''"The Climb" was not written intentionally for the 2009 musical film Hannah Montana: The Movie, although the soundtrack's second single, "Hoedown Throwdown" was.
 * Much of the material in the Background section is actually about the composition of the song. The Composition section seems more like it could be called Structure. Or perhaps the two sections could combined and called "Background and composition"?
 * In general a model article is useful for ideas and examples to follow - there are at least 15 FAs on songs at Featured_articles
 * It is spelled "MySpace", not "Myspace"
 * Since the performances on the X Factor were also cover versions, it seems to me that the X Factor section should be a subsection of the Covers section, not its own section.
 * Isn't it called a YouTube channel? The video premiered on McElderry's official YouTube the same day as the physical release.[89]
 * Ref 45 needs an accessdate. Also is About.com really considered a WP:RS (I don't know, I don't write about music)
 * All the information needed seems to be here and it is generally decently written and referenced. The structure seems a little odd to me (two separate chart performance sections) but there are two different versions by different artists, so I guess it is OK this way - do any of the other song FAs have a similar chart history (topping the chart twice by two different artists) and article structure?

Thank you to both Ealdgyth and Ruhrfisch for your reviews. Liqudluck ✽ talk 22:15, 22 December 2009 (UTC)