Wikipedia:Peer review/The Harbingers (Atmosfear series)/archive1

The Harbingers (Atmosfear series)
This peer review discussion has been closed. I've listed this article for peer review because I like to get other editors view of how I can improve the article and I was hoping someone could do some copy-editing on the article. Thanks, :) Gerry (talk) 07:55, 27 June 2010 (UTC)

Finetooth comments: It's difficult to write a verifiable encyclopedia article about a game that might not have many reliable sources to draw on. (Please see WP:V and WP:RS for extended definitions of verifiable and reliable as related to Wikipedia). The result might be an article largely without sources but occasionally supported by sources that are not necessarily reliable. That pretty well describes this article.


 * The article is largely unsourced. Some sections&mdash;Gameplay, Video, and Characters&mdash;have no inline citations to sources, and the other sections have almost none. A good rule of thumb is to provide a source for every claim that is apt to be questioned, every direct quote, every set of statistics, and every paragraph except for the lead. Personal research can't substitute for reliable sources. (Please see WP:NOR).


 * The few sources provided include Flying Bark (an player forum) and Marrow Productions, (apparently another forum), and a customer review posted at Amazon.com. None of these is a reliable source per WP:RS. Each simply presents the personal opinions of individuals. To be reliable, a source should be vetted by editors and have a reputation for neutrality and reliability. Most newspapers, magazines, and books published by reputable firms would qualify, for example. BoardGameGeek, which is your other source, might qualify; I'm not sure what kinds of internal editorial controls it has.


 * You are wise to seek a copyedit, but PR isn't the place to seek one. I would suggest holding off on the hunt for a copyeditor until after you have solved the sourcing problem, assuming it can be solved.


 * To get ideas about how to proceed and about how other editors have solved similar problems, you might look at the video-gaming articles that have become featured. They can be found at WP:FA. Note the organization and sourcing for some of them, Castlevania: Aria of Sorrow for example.

I hope this helps. Finetooth (talk) 02:20, 5 July 2010 (UTC)
 * Thanks Finetooth, for the review and the links, both gave me good ideas on how to improve this article. Gerry (talk) 08:15, 5 July 2010 (UTC)
 * I have done a lot of work on the article, and I believe I address most of your comments. Please let me know if you got more ideas on how to improve the article. d'oh! talk 08:48, 18 July 2010 (UTC)

Further Finetooth comments. Taking another look, I can see that you've worked hard on the article and improved it significantly. I would still recommend a thorough copyedit to correct small grammatical errors, such as "If the players does not become a Harbinger" in the lead. You might be able to find a copyeditor at WP:PRV. It would also help to include in the the lead at least a brief mention of the "Layout", "Development" and other later sections. To do this effectively, you might need to shorten the parts of the existing lead that summarize the upper text sections; some of the material there now looks like copy-and-paste from the main text rather than a brief summary. The other thing I'm wondering about is where the "own work" images of the game came from. They don't seem to be photos that you took with a camera. If they are screen captures, they would probably have to be licensed as "fair use", but you probably could use no more than one. Hope this helps. Finetooth (talk) 21:04, 18 July 2010 (UTC)
 * I will in list help from the copyeditors, thanks for the link. I have shorten the lead and added a mention of the sections I missed out. Also I am very flattered with your last comment, out the six images, four of them are photos I took my self with my game board. The pizza box I found on commons and the last image in the video section is copyrighted but it is marked as one and should be inline with WP:NFCC. Thanks again for your help, if you have anymore comments please let me know. :) d'oh! talk 04:51, 19 July 2010 (UTC)