Wikipedia:Peer review/The Whistler Sliding Centre/archive2

The Whistler Sliding Centre
This peer review discussion has been closed. I've listed this article for peer review because even though it is GA, it was not promoted as an FA. I would like to see that needs to be done with this to get it to FA. This could involve anything from minor editing to serious rewrites. Any help on this would be appreciative.
 * Previous peer review

Thanks, Chris (talk) 18:24, 4 September 2010 (UTC)


 * Comments by Jappalang

Lead


 * It feels like the first sentence is having too much physical location squeezed in. The second is particularly long.  Perhaps this can be restructured by taking out the Fitzsimmons Creek from the first sentence, combining it with the front few clauses of the second to form a new second sentence (describing the Centre's location in the Creek).
 * - Done. Chris (talk) 13:27, 6 September 2010 (UTC)
 * Best check the grammar, the creek is a mountain?
 * The creek is adjacent to the mountain. Fixed. Chris (talk) 14:56, 9 September 2010 (UTC)
 * Umm, I do not see the fix... Regardless, I suggest changing
 * "Located on the lowermost slopes of Blackcomb Mountain near Fitzsimmons Creek, one of two ski mountains forming the Whistler Blackcomb resort, this venue hosted the bobsleigh, luge, and skeleton (individual sport where you slide down the track head first) competitions for the 2010 Winter Olympics, which was co-hosted by Vancouver and the Resort Municipality of Whistler."
 * to
 * "The centre is part of the Whistler Blackcomb resort, which comprises two ski mountains separated by Fitzsimmons Creek. Located on the lowermost slope of the northern mountain (Blackcomb Mountain), Whistler Sliding Centre hosted the bobsleigh, luge, and skeleton (an individual sport in which the racer slides down the track head first) competitions for the 2010 Winter Olympics."
 * We should not be addressing the reader ("you") and I think the co-hosting of the Olympics is superfluous to this article (which should be focusing on the centre). Jappalang (talk) 01:15, 14 September 2010 (UTC)
 * First recommended sentence used as correction. Chris (talk) 13:15, 14 September 2010 (UTC)
 * I am not seeing it... Jappalang (talk) 14:41, 14 September 2010 (UTC)
 * It is fixed now. Chris (talk) 15:20, 14 September 2010 (UTC)


 * What is "Homologation"?
 * - Changed to "Certification". Chris (talk) 13:27, 6 September 2010 (UTC)


 * "... and skeleton with the top speed for all World Cup events set by German luger ..."
 * I do not think the "with" construct is gramatically sound here... Replace it with a semi-colon or period and cast the information after it as a full sentence.  See below for another issue with unexplained "skeleton".
 * - Done. Chris (talk) 13:28, 6 September 2010 (UTC)


 * Those not familiar with the sport might wonder what is a "start house".
 * - Explained. Chris (talk) 13:27, 6 September 2010 (UTC)


 * What are "Skeleton competitions"? It could lead to misreading "two skeleton races racers" in a Dungeons and Dragons context... the funny side of such a misunderstanding leads me to think of Randy in Boise.
 * - Competitions changed to races. Chris (talk) 13:27, 6 September 2010 (UTC)
 * Ummm, my concern was the unexplained "skeleton", which was resolved above. You can revert to competitions if desired.  Jappalang (talk) 01:50, 7 September 2010 (UTC)


 * "Safety concerns have affected the track design for the Russian National Sliding Centre that will be used for the 2014 Winter Olympics in Sochi."
 * So how is this related to Whistler? See also below.
 * - Corrected. Chris (talk) 13:28, 6 September 2010 (UTC)


 * "... track design for the Russian National Sliding Centre that will be used for the 2014 Winter Olympics in Sochi. A 20-page report was released by the FIL to ... on 19 April 2010. Constructed on part of First Nations spiritual grounds, the track ... while the refrigeration plant earned Canada's ..."
 * All those sentences pertain to the Russian Centre?
 * - First sentence of last paragraph now last sentence of third paragraph. Lead adj. Chris (talk) 13:27, 6 September 2010 (UTC)


 * I think it would be better to get someone to formulate a new lede, or to give the existing one a copy-edit. Changes made above are introducing grammatical issues.  Jappalang (talk) 01:50, 7 September 2010 (UTC)
 * - Lead reviewed and rewritten per request. Chris (talk) 22:18, 11 September 2010 (UTC)

Awarding and construction (2004–07)
 * "At the 115th IOC Session ..."
 * When was this (a year would do)?
 * - Year added. Chris (talk) 13:32, 6 September 2010 (UTC)


 * "On 15 November 2004, it was announced that Stantec Architecture Limited, which designed the 2002 Winter Olympic bobsleigh, luge, and skeleton track in Park City, Utah in the United States, would provide detail design and site master plan of the track based on track design of German designer Udo Gurgel of IBG in Leipzig, Germany."
 * A long sentence, perhaps, best broken down into shorter ones.
 * - Split up. Chris (talk) 13:32, 6 September 2010 (UTC)
 * I do not see that either of the provided references mentions Gurgel. Where was this information obtained?  Jappalang (talk) 01:28, 14 September 2010 (UTC)
 * The link is in there even though it is in German language. It does show the link as Whistler, Kanada. Look down the fourth photo which is located at the bottom of the page. Chris (talk) 13:17, 15 September 2010 (UTC)
 * I had read that, but as far as I can comprehend (Google Translate), the German firm declared that it had acted as consultants for the design (hence my copy-edit to state that) but had not specifically named Udo Gurgel as the consultant (the firm is a partnership). It would be original research to assume that the involvement of the firm means that the Centre's track is based on Gurgel's input and not Richter's or Penseler's.  Jappalang (talk) 03:22, 16 September 2010 (UTC)
 * Gurgel the person out and IBG put in per request. Chris (talk) 12:58, 16 September 2010 (UTC)


 * "During its building peak in the summer of 2006, more than 500 workers were involved both at the ..."
 * "Building peak"? I believe "peak of construction activities" is a more common term.  Furthermore, "involved" in or with what?  The entire sentence could be recast to use active phrasing.
 * - Changed per request. Chris (talk) 13:32, 6 September 2010 (UTC)

General, no longer going into specific sections or details
 * I am fairly certain that when we address a city and its state, the notation is "... he visited city, state, in 1993." Note the comma after the larger location (state or country).  It is missing in several sentences in this article.
 * - commas added for geographical locations per request. Chris (talk) 13:33, 9 September 2010 (UTC)


 * Several sections are long paragraphs; can they be broken into smaller paragraphs?
 * - Splits have occurred in four sections, mostly history. Chris (talk) 14:56, 10 September 2010 (UTC)


 * Several "... with noun plus -ing ..." constructs; please see User:Tony1/Noun plus -ing on issues with this construct.
 * I have looked at every single item in the article looking for "... with noun plus-ing ..." and could not find any. Can you be a little more specific on this? Chris (talk) 14:56, 9 September 2010 (UTC)
 * I found only two of them and both have been fixed. Chris (talk) 22:34, 11 September 2010 (UTC)


 * As such, I believe the article needs a further copy-edit.
 * Copyedit process done except for track records lead. Have contacted the Slding Centre itself to rectify this. Chris (talk) 14:13, 13 September 2010 (UTC)
 * As a follow-up to this, the Sliding Centre told me to contact the FIL-Luge office. An e-mail was sent to them today. Chris (talk) 13:48, 15 September 2010 (UTC)


 * Why are almost every participant or competitor listed in the sentences? "Such as" and "included" are not lists; 2 or 3 examples are more than sufficient.
 * Number of competitors reduced in First testing and ceritifcation section. Chris (talk) 13:13, 9 September 2010 (UTC)
 * There are still quite many names in that section (bobsleigh has 6, skeleton has 5). Jappalang (talk) 01:15, 14 September 2010 (UTC)
 * Reduced to four for luge, three for bobsleigh, and three for skeleton per request. Chris (talk) 13:15, 14 September 2010 (UTC)


 * Does "2010 Winter Olympics" need this much information on the competitions? I can understand the issues that surround Kumaritashvili, but the races?  Would that not be better covered in the Olympics article instead?
 * Luge and skeleton covered on this. Reviewing bobsleigh now and will cut this section down accordingly. Chris (talk) 14:56, 9 September 2010 (UTC)
 * Bobsleigh has also been cut down. Chris (talk) 13:15, 14 September 2010 (UTC)
 * I do not think it has been cut down enough. To me, it still reads as if every effort has been expended to cram all events into this section (why should disqualifications "for violating the total weight rule" matter for this track).  I think it might be better to structure and summarize this section in a way that speaks of how many crashes there were, why they were due to the track, and what effects the crashes had on the track.  Jappalang (talk) 14:41, 14 September 2010 (UTC)
 * Skeleton disqualifications removed per request. Bobsleigh further analyzed and weight disqualifications removed per request. Other parts of the section reviewed and tweaked. Chris (talk) 13:38, 15 September 2010 (UTC)
 * "Strămăturaru's sister Raluca, who had completed her run before her sister and made it through without issue, rushed to the end of the observation deck to know about her condition as the public address announcer directed medical personnel to the scene. Violeta later withdrew before the event while Raluca finished 21st.": Does Raluca's actions warrant this much detail when the article's subject about the track and not the event? Jappalang (talk) 03:13, 16 September 2010 (UTC)
 * Raluca removed, but Violeta kept. Chris (talk) 12:54, 16 September 2010 (UTC)


 * If abbreviations are only used once (when the full name is mentioned) in the article, then they do not need to be abbreviated in the first place.
 * Single abbreviation listings removed per request. Chris (talk) 13:36, 9 September 2010 (UTC)


 * Why are there double commas in the Infobox? Jappalang (talk) 01:29, 14 September 2010 (UTC)
 * Changed to breaks in the Infobox. Chris (talk) 13:15, 14 September 2010 (UTC)
 * They are still there: "... Jon Montgomery (CAN) (Skeleton),, Both 2010 ...", "... Felix Loch (GER), , 2009)", etc.  Why is "Both" capitalized?  Jappalang (talk) 14:44, 14 September 2010 (UTC)
 * Both removed. Periods are there as part of the infobox. Chris (talk) 15:20, 14 September 2010 (UTC)
 * Infobox switched out from motorsports venue to stadium venue to avoid track record issue. Chris (talk) 13:30, 15 September 2010 (UTC)

Image
 * File:Whistler Sliding Centre-track map english.svg
 * On what information/sources is the track layout based on?
 * According to the Summary listing, it was based on the track map listed at the 2010 Winter Olympics website of the track map itself. Chris (talk) 13:04, 9 September 2010 (UTC)

Somehow, I feel that perhaps omitting certain specifics could make for a more compact yet accessible article. Much is already there for FA, but polishing is perhaps what it needs now. Jappalang (talk) 09:28, 6 September 2010 (UTC)