Wikipedia:Peer review/Thistle, Utah/archive1

Thistle, Utah
This peer review discussion has been closed. I've listed this article for peer review because,I would like to take this article to FAC someday. I would like some general feedback about the quality of the article, and help fixing any prose errors I may have missed. Thanks, Dave (talk) 07:51, 9 May 2010 (UTC)

I removed the semi-automated peer review (SAPR) because it should not be included here for the following reasons: 1) when the SAPR is included here, this peer review request does not show up at WP:PR for others to see it and make comments; 2) this saves space at WP:PR; and 3) this follows the directions above, i.e. "Please do not ... paste in semi-automated peer reviews below: link to them instead." You can see these for the current version of the article at any time, just by clicking on "automated tips" in the Toolbox in the upper right corner of this peer review. Thanks, Ruhrfisch &gt;&lt;&gt; &deg; &deg; 20:09, 14 May 2010 (UTC)

Finetooth comments: This is a generally well-written account of an interesting event, and I enjoyed reading it. However, it is not yet ready for FAC. To be considered comprehensive, it will need something about geology and climate, and a more detailed map would be helpful. Two of the four images have problems; one is too dark, and one has a license that makes it unusable. It also needs re-organization, I think, but that should be relatively easy. Here are some other suggestions:

Geography
 * "at the confluence of the two primary contributors" - "tributaries of" rather than "contributors to"?
 * It might be helpful to add Thistle's location (distance and direction) in relation to Salt Lake City.
 * "an east–west route across the Wasatch Plateau via Soldier Summit" - Which mountain range?
 * It might be helpful to add the direction of flow for the streams named in this section.
 * I've fixed the first 4, these were easy.
 * I think you really need to add something about the geology of the region. What kinds of rock underlie Thistle? What soils? Is Thistle in the Basin and Range Province? What is the geologic history of the area? What made it prone to landslides?
 * I do have some information about this. I'll add what I can.
 * It might be helpful to add something about climate as well. How much precipitation does Thistle normally get in a year? Does much snow accumulate in the mountains?
 * I'll recruit some help from WP:Ghosttowns to see how they do this. I was unable to find weather accounts for Thistle, I suspect I'll have to find the nearest community that is still populated and assume that's close enough.

Demographics
 * I'd think about a slightly different organization for the article. If you made "Demographics" (without a head) be the second paragraph of the "History" section, I think things would flow better chronologically, and you'd have room for the informative chart within that section. As it stands now, the chart overlaps two sections (on my screen, at least), and the chronology is reversed (settlers then Indians). Then the railroad material could follow. The History section could stop there, and the next section could be called "Landslide" with subsections (but not sub-subsections) under it.
 * The current structure is the "recommended" structure at WP:Ghosttowns. However, I have not problem with the above suggestion. Thanks, I'll play around with it over the next few days.
 * Were these cattle ranches? What did the settlers grow on the fertile ground on Billies Mountain? Were any of the residents miners? Did mines contribute to the local economy?
 * The other side (east side) of the Wasatch Plateau is well known for its Coal supply. However, to the best of my knowledge, this side is mostly agricultural. After searching, I did find there was one mining camp near the town, added a mention.

Railroads Landslide
 * "Owing to its location at a critical change in both grade and curvature of the line the railroad built several facilities here." - Perhaps "Owing to the area's location... " to avoid confusing "it" with "railroad"?
 * "The railroad placed helper engines on trains at Thistle to aid the trains over Soldier Summit, which would be removed after the trains had crested the Wasatch Plateau." - I'd recast slightly since the summit was not removed.
 * "which branched from the main at Thistle" - "Main line" rather than "main"?
 * "At that time town's railroad infrastructure included... " - Missing word, "the"?
 * fixed all these, thanks for finding them.
 * "That same day a highway patrol," - Shouldn't this be highway patrolman rather than highway patrol?
 * "Volunteers transported as many people and belongings as possible to the town of Birdseye" - Might be useful here to say how far Birdseye is from Thistle.
 * "The United States Geological Survey and the state of Utah have claimed the Thistle landslide is the most costly in the United States." - Maybe "The United States Geological Survey and the state of Utah have called the Thistle landslide the most costly ever in the United States."
 * Fixed, thanks.

Railroad Map References Works cited Images
 * "that the line would still break even most years" - "the line broke even" rather than "the line would still break even"?
 * "The railroad determined it would take years, if ever, to recoup the cost of rebuilding the line." - Not quite grammatical. Perhaps "The railroad determined that at best it would take years to recoup the cost of rebuilding the line"?
 * Fixed.
 * A map showing Thistle, its railroad lines, and other population centers along the lines would be helpful. Most readers will be unfamiliar with places like Nephi and Richfield. Perhaps the map could show the roads as well and places like Helper and Salina.
 * I had already requested the help of the Map task force at the U.S. Roads Wikiproject. We'll see what they can do.
 * The date formatting in the citations will have to be consistent throughout to pass FAC. You can use either yyyy-mm-dd or m-d-y but not a mixture of the two.
 * The page abbreviations in the citations should be consistent throughout. For example, the existing citation 10 uses p99, whereas citation 13 uses P.5.
 * Mark Milligan in citation 3 should be Milligan, Mark.
 * Got it, thanks
 * I'd add the places of publication.
 * Done
 * The lead image is too dark, I think, and doesn't do justice to such an interesting article. If you live in Utah or a nearby state, a trip to Thistle with a digital camera might be your best bet to get better photos.
 * File:Thistle-Burried House.jpg is licensed as CC-by-SA 2.0 generic. I was going to suggest using it as the lead image, but when I clicked through to check the image source, I found that the license is actually Noncommercial CC-by-SA 2.0. On the flickr page for this image, you can check this yourself by clicking the link on "some rights reserved" under "Additional information". The noncommercial (NC) clause in the license means that it should not have been uploaded to the Commons or used on Wikipedia because neither uses anything with an NC license. This is not your fault, but it means that you can't use the image unless you can convince the author to re-license it without the NC restriction.
 * It was originally licensed with NC, I emailed the author and asked him to if he'd remove it. He did, I have both the email where he agreed to do so, and the fact that it passed FlickRreview (which checks for this). Apparently, he put it back. I'll save his email as an OTRS ticket.Dave (talk) 17:35, 16 May 2010 (UTC)
 * Also, both of the printed books used as sources have extensive photographs of the area. Most are attributed to someone's private collection. Some of these would surely now be in public domain, due to age. I was hoping to find someone who could advise on both would would be legal and ethical to scan in, and how to get the best results when scanning from a book. (I have a good scanner, but am not a graphic artist). If you are skilled in this area, please advise.Dave (talk) 22:44, 16 May 2010 (UTC)

Alt text
 * Some of the images may need alt text. The alt-text viewer at the top of this review page is handy for checking alt text.

I hope these suggestions prove helpful. If so, please consider reviewing another article, especially one from the PR backlog at WP:PR. That is where I found this one. Finetooth (talk) 02:50, 16 May 2010 (UTC)
 * Thanks for the review. I will address these soon. Unfortunately I am on an altered work schedule for the next two weeks, and I'm not sure how much free time I'll have until I get off of this schedule. I also plan to reciprocate by reviewing another article at that time.Dave (talk) 17:35, 16 May 2010 (UTC)