Wikipedia:Peer review/Thopha saccata/archive1

Thopha saccata
This peer review discussion has been closed. This article was at FAC for nearly two months and was not promoted after one support and no other comments. I was at a bit of a loss as to why there was so little interest other than to think that maybe it was a bit rougher prose-wise and just didn't engage. Anyway, if I look at it further I'll go square-eyed so am listing it for peer review. Feedback welcomed.....Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 11:49, 4 March 2014 (UTC)

Passing comments from Hamiltonstone
 * "Cicada is repeated three times in the first lead para. Is there any chance that "The largest Australian cicada, the double drummer is reputedly the loudest insect in the world." can be modified to read along the lines "The largest insect of its type / member of its genus / family / group / or something, the double drummer is reputedly the loudest insect in the world." Just to get rid of that final repetition?
 * I tried rejigging it and have gotten rid of one "cicada" - how's that? Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 04:57, 11 March 2014 (UTC)


 * "They emerge from November until March and live for four to five weeks." Need to be clearer that you mean they emerge from underground, not emerge from, say, hibernation. Also, it's not quite right to say they live for four to five weeks - they were alive for several years before that, you only mean in this phase of their lifecycle. Needs tweaking.
 * I have tweaked it. Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 04:57, 11 March 2014 (UTC)


 * "series of pulses emitted at a rate of 240–250 a second". Can you check this? Does this really mean 240-odd pulses of sound within each second (which suggests a strange repetition of extremely high frequency noises of short duration) or does it actually mean pulsating sound at a frequency of around 240-250Hz? hamiltonstone (talk) 11:30, 5 March 2014 (UTC)
 * The source says, "The pulse repetition frequency is 240-250/sec."...so, yes it is 240 pulses a second... Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 11:43, 11 March 2014 (UTC)


 * Comments from J Milburn
 * I am inclined to think that the lead doesn't quite grab the reader. The fact it was the first described Australian cicada isn't particularly interesting, but the fact it's the largest is, and the fact that it's reputedly the loudest in the world definitely is- it could even be moved to the first sentence.
 * I tried rejigging it and adopted a slightly unorthodox intro to make it more engaging. Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 04:57, 11 March 2014 (UTC)


 * Perhaps change "genus name" to the more prosaic "generic name"? Same for "species name" and "specific name".
 * done. Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 05:04, 11 March 2014 (UTC)


 * "They still wrote of it as native to China" Slightly ugly construction
 * --> maintained? Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 05:04, 11 March 2014 (UTC)


 * "In 1838, Félix Édouard Guérin-Méneville pointed out that the double drummer is native to Australia and not China.[6] John Obadiah Westwood designated it the type species of the genus in 1843." Perhaps consider merging these sentences? At the moment, it feels a little disjointed.
 * agreed the sentences are a tad short - would a run-on "and" be an improvement here? (have been criticised for using them before...) Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 05:04, 11 March 2014 (UTC)


 * "The proboscis is very long for Australian cicadas, measuring 1.26 cm (0.50 in)." A little ambiguous- do you mean to say that, compared to other Australian cicadas, this is long, or that Australian cicadas have long proboscis?
 * the former - clarified. Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 11:46, 11 March 2014 (UTC)


 * "a radius of curviture of around 25–45 nm" I don't follow this
 * It means the dome-shaped ends, if they were a circle would be that - see Radius of curvature (applications)  - linked now Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 11:55, 11 March 2014 (UTC)


 * "The double drummer is larger and darker overall than the northern double drummer (T. sessiliba),[10] T. saccata having black head and body markings, and the black markings of the leading edge (costa) of the forewing extending past the basal cell, and lacking a white band on the abdomen." Perhaps split this into two sentences? It's difficult to follow at the moment, and the fact you switch from common to specific names is odd
 * sentence split - I hope starting after semicolon with "it" is unambiguous.... Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 12:32, 11 March 2014 (UTC)


 * "earsplitting" is a bit colloquial
 * yeah I wondered about that...but they really are *(%&%# loud! I was standing in my garden trying to take a photo of a greengrocer  and my ears were really ringing....I was trying to make the article engaging and use a vivid word/descriptor. Am open to alternatives. Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 05:19, 11 March 2014 (UTC)


 * How do they make the noise? What time of year specifically?
 * buckling of tymbal plates amplified by hollow abdomen and bagpipe-like sacs...simple really and added (should have added that before!). Cicadas are only out in summer, during which time they sing most of the time. Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 12:57, 25 March 2014 (UTC)


 * What do the nymphs look like? The eggs?
 * got eggs in...description of nymphs proving difficult to get.... Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 13:00, 25 March 2014 (UTC)


 * What precisely are they feeding on? Wood? Leaves? Bark?
 * roots - added Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 05:26, 11 March 2014 (UTC)


 * "They are then shoved into the hunter's burrow, where the helpless cicada" A little colloquial- perhaps stress that the cicada is still alive, though.
 * I concede that it is a tad colloquial, but I think that it makes it succinct and helps with the engagingness of the passage. I figured "helpless" carries the connotation that the cicada is still alive... Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 01:03, 25 March 2014 (UTC)


 * I'm not sure that the note about the poems is the best way to end the article- is there nothing else to mention, culturally? I'm not sure the poems even belong in the article, as they're not by anyone in particular?
 * There is precious little pop culture stuff apart from the fact they are popular with schoolkids, who used to catch them and keep them in boxes for a few days. I thought it added to the kiddiness of the segment, agree it is a bit stretching on the notability..but I felt it might be segment might be a bit thin otherwise. Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 01:08, 25 March 2014 (UTC)


 * I'm inclined to say that the article looks a little cluttered, with a large number of images in a hodge-podge of shapes. Perhaps you could remove some of the images, or merge some together into multiple-image templates or tables (though I'd avoid actual galleries).
 * I took a couple out... Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 01:08, 25 March 2014 (UTC)

I'm sorry I didn't get to this article while it was at FAC- hopefully you can build up some support here before taking it there again! J Milburn (talk) 16:50, 9 March 2014 (UTC)

Comment by Praemonitus. The article seems good to me. I have just a couple of minor concerns:
 * The first paragraph in the 'Description' section is overly long, making for tedious reading. I think this could be split into three parts.
 * Thinking about it..................where would you slice this para, though?. Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 03:27, 28 March 2014 (UTC)


 * I'm a little confused about the paragraph that begins "The double drummer is larger and darker overall...". Is the description following the semi-colon intended to apply to the 'former' or the 'latter'? I assumed the latter, but you might want to make that clear. If the former, why the redundancy with the first paragraph. If the latter, why is it darker when the description actually paints it as blacker?
 * It is the former - I will rejig. Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 20:38, 28 March 2014 (UTC)

The citations looked fine. Praemonitus (talk) 01:30, 28 March 2014 (UTC)