Wikipedia:Peer review/Tiger/archive1

Tiger


I've listed this article for peer review because I want to prepare it for FAC. This is an important article.

Thanks, LittleJerry (talk) 13:55, 15 April 2024 (UTC)

750h
This is an excellent article, a note I have is that, when it says "Tigers may kill and even prey on other predators they coexist with." The sentence could potentially imply that preying on other predators is somehow more significant than killing them. That's all I have.  750h+ &#124;  Talk  10:32, 21 April 2024 (UTC)
 * It is (see Interspecific competition), however the article should note that this is unusual behavior and not something you see every day. Wolverine XI   ( talk to me ) 10:51, 21 April 2024 (UTC)
 * Thanks for your feedback, 750h. The available knowhow implies that tigers sometimes kill co-predators, but re leopards : they don't eat the meat. I hope my changes address what you had in mind? –BhagyaMani (talk) 12:03, 21 April 2024 (UTC)

Wolverine
We want to address a few points regarding this article. Firstly, there are numerous grammatical errors. In the course of our investigation, we discovered 288 instances of ungrammatical text. For example, while being written in British English, the term "recognized" appears twice in the text. Although we would prefer not to overburden you with a list, we will gladly comply if that is what you demand. Second, there are far too many numbers in the social spacing area for any practical purpose. In all honesty, I have no idea why there are so many numbers. Please arrange things. Third, what is the purpose of including a picture of a toy in this article? Use the better photographs that are available.
 * Addressed spelling of "recognized" > recognise/d. – BhagyaMani (talk) 18:22, 22 April 2024 (UTC)
 * Since we also have lots of figures in some other sections, I keep the ones under #Social spacing for now. – BhagyaMani (talk) 18:22, 22 April 2024 (UTC)
 * Since the 'toy' dates 18zh century + is from a museum collection, I also keep this. LittleJerry, your thoughts? – BhagyaMani (talk) 18:22, 22 April 2024 (UTC)

One last thing, do tigers live 26 years in the wild or in captivity? The typical lifespan should be included as well; this is crucial information. And why is "endangered" written in caps? Wolverine XI  ( talk to me ) 16:05, 22 April 2024 (UTC)


 * I think in captivity, LittleJerry? I recall a wild tigress in India living to ~18 years, was said to be record age. BhagyaMani (talk) 18:50, 22 April 2024 (UTC)
 * The source states "In zoos, tigers have lived for 20 to 26 years, which also seems to be their longevity in the wild". Its is all I can find on lifespan. LittleJerry (talk) 22:28, 22 April 2024 (UTC)
 * See this source for average lifespan. Wolverine XI   ( talk to me ) 04:19, 23 April 2024 (UTC)
 * Added. LittleJerry (talk) 10:48, 23 April 2024 (UTC)
 * Super! BhagyaMani (talk) 13:39, 23 April 2024 (UTC)
 * I can agree on Social Spacing. We could just keep the Sundarbans and the Sikhote-Alin Biosphere Reserve as they appear to represent the lower and higher ends respectively and as well as Panna which shows how they change during the seasons. I'll see what other reviewers think. LittleJerry (talk) 22:32, 22 April 2024 (UTC)
 * More to come in about 910 hours. Wolverine XI   ( talk to me ) 03:37, 23 April 2024 (UTC)
 * Hmm. Since these figures are not wrong, I suggest to keep them. An option would be to move them into a table, perhaps collapsable. But we tried moving figures on body size + weight before into a table, which got reverted later on. And I think that those not interested in figures, must not read them -- that is everybody's choice. BhagyaMani (talk) 13:39, 23 April 2024 (UTC)
 * Adding a collapsable table is not a bad idea, but I suggest waiting for reviewers at FAC. And as for me, I gotta finish some paperwork. See y'all tomorrow. Wolverine XI   ( talk to me ) 15:53, 23 April 2024 (UTC)
 * Updated with a more reliable source than under above link. BhagyaMani (talk) 05:35, 23 April 2024 (UTC)

Lede


 * There should be a comma after the first occurrence of subspecies, and a colon before mainland tigers.
 * Added comma, but not the colon, instead added word 'namely'. BhagyaMani (talk) 16:08, 23 April 2024 (UTC)


 * change to "with whom"
 * Fixed. LittleJerry (talk) 17:20, 23 April 2024 (UTC)


 * Comma after China
 * Done. BhagyaMani (talk) 16:08, 23 April 2024 (UTC)


 * Remove the striken words, and add comma after fur.
 * Done. BhagyaMani (talk) 16:08, 23 April 2024 (UTC)


 * Add "the" before "illegal trade of tiger parts"
 * Debatable, but added. BhagyaMani (talk) 16:08, 23 April 2024 (UTC)


 * Rm comma
 * Done. BhagyaMani (talk) 16:08, 23 April 2024 (UTC)


 * Rm comma
 * Done. BhagyaMani (talk) 16:08, 23 April 2024 (UTC)

Etymology


 * Found nothing.

Taxonomy
 * Comma after Panthera
 * Done. BhagyaMani (talk) 16:08, 23 April 2024 (UTC)


 * Comma after patterns
 * Not done, unless we decide to use serial commas throughout, which imo is not needed as per MOS:SERIAL.


 * No need for the comma after Asia
 * Done. BhagyaMani (talk) 16:08, 23 April 2024 (UTC)


 * Add "the" before morphological, and a comma after ecological
 * Added comma. "The" seems unneeded. LittleJerry (talk) 17:20, 23 April 2024 (UTC)


 * Add comma after tigris and Siberian, sondaica, & Bali, later on in the sentence.
 * Not done, see MOS:SERIAL. BhagyaMani (talk) 16:08, 23 April 2024 (UTC)


 * captive breeding programs => captive breeding programmes. I think that is the British spelling
 * Fixed. LittleJerry (talk) 17:20, 23 April 2024 (UTC)


 * A risk
 * Done. BhagyaMani (talk) 16:08, 23 April 2024 (UTC)


 * Less => fewer
 * Done. BhagyaMani (talk) 16:08, 23 April 2024 (UTC)
 * I'll skip the table for now; more to come in 10+ hours. Wolverine XI   ( talk to me ) 05:11, 24 April 2024 (UTC)

I'm too exhausted to continue right now, but I will when I get more energy. Wolverine XI  ( talk to me ) 15:23, 23 April 2024 (UTC)
 * Continuing


 * Add a suspended hyphen after Middle and hyphen between late and Pleistocene
 * Done. LittleJerry (talk) 21:56, 24 April 2024 (UTC)


 * applying to using
 * Done. LittleJerry (talk) 21:56, 24 April 2024 (UTC)


 * "As" doesn't work here, change to "like"
 * Done. LittleJerry (talk) 21:56, 24 April 2024 (UTC)


 * Don't have to say much about this
 * Done. LittleJerry (talk) 21:56, 24 April 2024 (UTC)


 * Change the comma to a semicolon, and add a comma after hence.
 * Done. LittleJerry (talk) 21:56, 24 April 2024 (UTC)

Characteristics


 * change to "than that of"
 * Done. LittleJerry (talk) 21:56, 24 April 2024 (UTC)


 * Add semicolon
 * Done. LittleJerry (talk) 21:56, 24 April 2024 (UTC)


 * Which to that
 * Done. LittleJerry (talk) 21:56, 24 April 2024 (UTC)


 * Drop the colon and replace it with a comma
 * Done. LittleJerry (talk) 21:56, 24 April 2024 (UTC)


 * Drop the comma
 * Done. LittleJerry (talk) 21:56, 24 April 2024 (UTC)


 * Substitute the colon with a comma, and change "in each" to "to each"
 * Done. LittleJerry (talk) 21:56, 24 April 2024 (UTC)


 * Why the sudden change to singular?
 * Done. LittleJerry (talk) 21:56, 24 April 2024 (UTC)


 * There should be a comma before "as"
 * Done. LittleJerry (talk) 21:56, 24 April 2024 (UTC)


 * Add "they may", because who or what does "may" refer to?
 * Done. LittleJerry (talk) 21:56, 24 April 2024 (UTC)


 * Add a dash after variants and golden
 * Done. LittleJerry (talk) 21:56, 24 April 2024 (UTC)


 * Drop this comma
 * Done. LittleJerry (talk) 21:56, 24 April 2024 (UTC)


 * Always, and I mean always, add a comma before respectively
 * Done. LittleJerry (talk) 21:56, 24 April 2024 (UTC)


 * Sentence looks weird without a comma after "hence"
 * Done. LittleJerry (talk) 21:56, 24 April 2024 (UTC)

Distribution and habitat


 * Drop the comma...
 * Done. LittleJerry (talk) 22:41, 24 April 2024 (UTC)


 * and this one
 * Done. LittleJerry (talk) 22:41, 24 April 2024 (UTC)


 * Tiger? This should be plural
 * Done. LittleJerry (talk) 22:41, 24 April 2024 (UTC)

 Behaviour and ecology


 * Change to "during the day". Now that makes more sense
 * Done. LittleJerry (talk) 22:20, 24 April 2024 (UTC)


 * Change to "three-year-long"
 * Done. LittleJerry (talk) 22:20, 24 April 2024 (UTC)


 * Second occurrence of "at" is redundant
 * Done. LittleJerry (talk) 22:20, 24 April 2024 (UTC)


 * I think we all see the error here
 * Done. LittleJerry (talk) 22:20, 24 April 2024 (UTC)


 * American spelling?
 * Done. LittleJerry (talk) 22:20, 24 April 2024 (UTC)


 * "Too" is redundant
 * Done. LittleJerry (talk) 22:20, 24 April 2024 (UTC)


 * Yet another case of American spelling
 * Done. LittleJerry (talk) 22:20, 24 April 2024 (UTC)


 * Recorded
 * Done. LittleJerry (talk) 22:20, 24 April 2024 (UTC)


 * Drop the first comma, then replace also with another comma
 * Done. LittleJerry (talk) 22:20, 24 April 2024 (UTC)


 * Remove both commas, and add "its" before head
 * Done. LittleJerry (talk) 22:20, 24 April 2024 (UTC)


 * Yet another unneeded comma
 * Done. LittleJerry (talk) 22:20, 24 April 2024 (UTC)


 * So first remove the comma, then add two commas before waiting and prey. Thereafter replace launches with launch
 * Done. LittleJerry (talk) 22:20, 24 April 2024 (UTC)


 * This section is filled with unnecessary commas
 * Done. LittleJerry (talk) 22:20, 24 April 2024 (UTC)


 * This should be the last one
 * Done. LittleJerry (talk) 22:20, 24 April 2024 (UTC)


 * "range" and "a low of"
 * Done. LittleJerry (talk) 22:20, 24 April 2024 (UTC)


 * What is the purpose of the comma?
 * Done. LittleJerry (talk) 22:20, 24 April 2024 (UTC)


 * Rm comma and "there is"
 * Done. LittleJerry (talk) 22:37, 24 April 2024 (UTC)


 * One of the most common typos known to men
 * Done. LittleJerry (talk) 22:37, 24 April 2024 (UTC)


 * Who is Tiger?
 * Done. LittleJerry (talk) 22:37, 24 April 2024 (UTC)


 * Tail should be plural
 * Changed. LittleJerry (talk) 22:37, 24 April 2024 (UTC)


 * change to "she does not travel far"
 * Done. LittleJerry (talk) 22:37, 24 April 2024 (UTC)


 * Replace comma with a full stop and start a new sentence with "causes"
 * Done. LittleJerry (talk) 22:37, 24 April 2024 (UTC)


 * Typo
 * Done. LittleJerry (talk) 22:37, 24 April 2024 (UTC)


 * Rm comma
 * Done. LittleJerry (talk) 22:37, 24 April 2024 (UTC)


 * Earliest is redundant
 * Done. LittleJerry (talk) 22:37, 24 April 2024 (UTC)


 * sexually
 * Done. BhagyaMani (talk) 16:11, 24 April 2024 (UTC)


 * Indicates
 * 'Data' is plural, so 'indicate' is correct. BhagyaMani (talk) 16:11, 24 April 2024 (UTC)

Will finish up tomorrow. Wolverine XI  ( talk to me ) 14:59, 24 April 2024 (UTC)

Threats
 * Turn 'which' to 'that'
 * 'A' adds nothing
 * Second occurrence of "since" is redundant. Also remove "there"
 * Replace "and" with a comma
 * Semicolon for nested lists
 * All 5 done. BhagyaMani (talk) 17:31, 25 April 2024 (UTC)

Conservation
 * "Of" is not needed...
 * same here
 * We going American again
 * "ze" is American, while "se" is British
 * Add "foster" before cooperation}}
 * Replace the stricken words with "increasing"
 * efforts
 * "That" is not needed
 * All 8 done. BhagyaMani (talk) 17:37, 25 April 2024 (UTC)

Relationship with humans


 * I feel like a preposition is needed. What do you think?
 * A comma doesn't make sense here.
 * I don't see the purpose of the hyphen
 * It is amphitheatre
 * Rm comma
 * Private individuals
 * Filled? No, it played that role.
 * "The" is missing
 * am => a.m.
 * With the tiger
 * Semicolon
 * British spelling is mediaeval
 * All done. BhagyaMani (talk) 17:48, 25 April 2024 (UTC)

My work is done here. Wolverine XI  ( talk to me ) 16:15, 25 April 2024 (UTC)
 * Thanks for taking the time and meticulous reading !! BhagyaMani (talk) 17:48, 25 April 2024 (UTC)

UC
Commenting by request, though very much as a non-expert. A few spot-comments, general pointers and image question-marks. UndercoverClassicist T·C 06:39, 24 April 2024 (UTC)


 * I would put something in the first paragraph about where tigers live, given that we've hinted at it with . The second paragraph likewise gives some examples but doesn't really nail down exactly where these animals come from.
 * Done. LittleJerry (talk) 21:56, 24 April 2024 (UTC)


 * Suggest linking "Cultural depictions of tigers" to "appeared in culture": the link on "culture" looks like it should go to the page of the same name (which would be an overlink).
 * Done. LittleJerry (talk) 21:56, 24 April 2024 (UTC)


 * Non-English text should be in language tags.
 * Done. BhagyaMani (talk) 08:47, 24 April 2024 (UTC)


 * I would give a date for Varro; Roman history, by some assessments, covers anything from 753 BCE to 1453 CE.
 * Done. BhagyaMani (talk) 08:48, 24 April 2024 (UTC)


 * : was that. Popular where, and among whom?
 * Removed 'popular' altogether + revised after checking the original source text. BhagyaMani (talk) 08:47, 24 April 2024 (UTC)


 * I find it difficult in the "subspecies" section to establish which way the article is going on the debate: suggest a brief introductory paragraph that sets out e.g. "there are generally considered to be two subspecies of tiger, though some have argued for up to six", or the converse.
 * Done. LittleJerry (talk) 02:06, 9 May 2024 (UTC)


 * Explain who/what the IUCN is. Per WP:NOTPAPER, it's best to spell out most abbreviations on first use.
 * The words 'IUCN Red List' is not an abbreviation. BhagyaMani (talk) 08:56, 24 April 2024 (UTC)


 * File:Panthera tigris sondaica 01 (cropped).jpg doesn't appear to be PD in the US.
 * Replaced. LittleJerry (talk) 23:50, 25 April 2024 (UTC)


 * File:Tiger - melbourne zoo.jpg isn't PD, though someone more expert than me will have to weigh in on whether the license is acceptable. Personally, I doubt it, since using the picture imposes restrictions on the article (that it can't be used for commercial purposes) incompatible with Wikipedia's own pillars.
 * Replaced. LittleJerry (talk) 01:33, 25 April 2024 (UTC)


 * File:Panthera tigris virgata.jpg should be PD in the US, but needs to be tagged as such.
 * File:Tigerdholes.jpg: ditto
 * File:ElephantbackTigerHunt.jpg: ditto
 * File:Durga Mahisasuramardini.JPG: ditto
 * Added PD tag to all the photos. LittleJerry (talk) 00:02, 26 April 2024 (UTC)


 * File:Ringling Bros and Barnum & Bailey Circus Gunther Gebel-Williams 1969.jpg: source (eBay) link is dead, making it difficult to verify the claim that it was published before 1977: assuming eBay is the first publication, it certainly wasn't. Again probably one for wiser people to weigh in on.
 * Click on "photo front". The date stamp is given there. LittleJerry (talk) 00:02, 26 April 2024 (UTC)


 * The licensing on File:Panthera tigris sumatrae (Tiger (Sumatra)) skin.jpg: I am suspicious of the licensing here: it's given as "own work", but the date is only "circa", and the original version of the file looks like it might be a book scan.
 * Replaced. LittleJerry (talk) 16:42, 26 April 2024 (UTC)


 * File:Releasing a Siberian tiger in Russia.webm doesn't appear to be PD; I can't find any evidence of a CC licence on the source page.
 * Replaced. LittleJerry (talk) 00:09, 26 April 2024 (UTC)


 * : they still do: have a common ancestor, which lived...
 * Done. LittleJerry (talk) 23:48, 25 April 2024 (UTC)


 * : this is pretty opaque to a non-biologist.
 * Linked. LittleJerry (talk) 22:08, 24 April 2024 (UTC)


 * : quotes need to be attributed in text. There are a few other examples.
 * I don't think it needs to be unless the source itself is quoting someone. Then that person should be attributed in text. LittleJerry (talk) 19:46, 27 April 2024 (UTC)


 * There is some variation between "A tiger" and "the tiger", and between singular and plural: advise consistency. Honestly, I find the singular a bit archaic, and it leads to some strange situations where it sounds like we're only talking about a single animal, but it's personal preference.
 * Replaced where adequate. BhagyaMani (talk) 03:59, 3 May 2024 (UTC)


 * : punctuation issues here: would work.
 * Done. LittleJerry (talk) 22:08, 24 April 2024 (UTC)


 * Hyphenate "the snow-white tiger" as a compound modifier.
 * Done. LittleJerry (talk) 22:08, 24 April 2024 (UTC)


 * We name lots of national parks; we should specify which country they are in.
 * : Newtons, surely? Could also convert this into imperial. Is the decimal point perhaps false precision?
 * These are the figures in the source. BhagyaMani (talk) 04:21, 3 May 2024 (UTC)


 * : a feat three men struggle with is a bit odd -- it reads quite Victorian, to be honest. Which three men did we manage to convince to give it a go? Are women any better at carcass-dragging?
 * Removed + revised; fully agree with your comment. BhagyaMani (talk) 04:09, 3 May 2024 (UTC)


 * : colon or semicolon needed instead of the comma.
 * Revised sentence. BhagyaMani (talk) 04:21, 3 May 2024 (UTC)


 * : needs an endash, not a hyphen.
 * Done. LittleJerry (talk) 22:08, 24 April 2024 (UTC)


 * : one end of this estimate seems strangely more precise than the other.
 * Nothing WE can do about these figures in the source. BhagyaMani (talk) 01:44, 25 April 2024 (UTC)
 * The figures from the late 1980s were guesstimates, i.e. nobody had any means to actually count individuals. Today, camera trap photos allow identification of individuals, estimate population density with the help of statistical software, and on this basis also estimate population size in surveyed areas. BhagyaMani (talk) 07:28, 25 April 2024 (UTC)


 * : not quite grammatical: would work.
 * Done. BhagyaMani (talk) 01:44, 25 April 2024 (UTC)

, anything more? LittleJerry (talk) 03:52, 9 May 2024 (UTC)


 * I haven't tried to do a full nit-pick here: I know the article is still in development and I'm sure we'll see it again at FAC. Would still advise a look at those figures: can we dig into the sources and find out anything about the methodology, error bars (especially on the average: is a one-decimal-point average appropriate to the range of data points?) or general reliability that should be included or used to guide us? Falling back on "source says it" shouldn't be the last word: I've had cases in my FAs where a source writer has clearly mistaken a date, name or other fact, and we can usually do something to drill into where they got it from and work out what's going on. UndercoverClassicist T·C 06:32, 9 May 2024 (UTC)
 * The article is mostly done. I would prefer a nitpick at this stage. LittleJerry (talk) 10:40, 9 May 2024 (UTC)
 * I'm not sure I'll have the time to go through the article as thoroughly as an FA review would need for a little while: if it stays around at PR for a bit and that changes, I'll gladly come back and add some more comments, otherwise I'm sure we can simply pick it up if/when it hits FAC. After all, it'll certainly get a thorough nit-picking there whether I review it or not -- that's the whole fun (?) of the process. UndercoverClassicist T·C 08:59, 12 May 2024 (UTC)