Wikipedia:Peer review/Tjioeng Wanara/archive1

Tjioeng Wanara
This peer review discussion has been closed. I've listed this article for peer review because I would like to bring this through FAC and was looking for some input on writing and accessibility (i.e. is there enough context for the average reader?).

Thanks, — Crisco 1492 (talk) 10:18, 7 March 2014 (UTC)

Comments by Wehwalt
It looks pretty good, considering there are limited sources. I don't see any issues with accessibility.


 * Lede
 * "who must reclaim the throne " possibly HIS throne would be stronger. I'd also move the clause containing "of the same name" to the end of the sentence.
 * Done. — Crisco 1492 (talk) 15:55, 8 March 2014 (UTC)
 * "that Poerbatjaraka" perhaps precede his name with "noted scholar"
 * Avoiding "noted" (WP:WEASEL), but otherwise done. — Crisco 1492 (talk) 15:55, 8 March 2014 (UTC)
 * Plot
 * "It is 1255 Saka" I suspect a full stop is missing but I can't say for sure.
 * There was a comma, but that sentence has been reworked to avoid the drama from Drama dari Krakatau
 * "as such" would "thus" work better?
 * Reworded in another manner. — Crisco 1492 (talk) 15:55, 8 March 2014 (UTC)


 * Production
 * "second film, and the second film" can this be handled better?
 * Attempted. — Crisco 1492 (talk) 15:55, 8 March 2014 (UTC)
 * Release
 * If you are going to say reviews were mixed, you probably should not give two positive reviews and none negative.
 * Refers to "Indonesian film historian Misbach Yusa Biran, however, writes that some viewers considered the film "nothing more than a stage play brought to the silver screen"." Have reworked. — Crisco 1492 (talk) 15:55, 8 March 2014 (UTC)
 * That's all I have, good job. On images, is there an illustration from the legend that would be suitable and could be placed in the plot section?--Wehwalt (talk) 13:33, 8 March 2014 (UTC)
 * I think that would sandwich the text too much, but I'll see what is available on Commons. Thanks for reviewing! — Crisco 1492 (talk) 15:55, 8 March 2014 (UTC)

Comments from SchroCat
As usual I've made a few minor tweaks here and there: feel free to rv what you don’t like/disagree with.

Plot
 * "beloved to his people" or beloved by his people"?
 * "beloved to his people" is a valid construction, although perhaps a bit old-fashioned. 89k Google hits. — Crisco 1492 (talk) 13:39, 10 March 2014 (UTC)


 * "The minister Aria Kebonan, however, wants power for himself, and influences the king into surrendering the crown to him." I'd lose the "however": it doesn't add understanding. May also be worth considering "persuades" instead of influences?
 * Alright, done. — Crisco 1492 (talk) 13:39, 10 March 2014 (UTC)

Production
 * "served as historical adviser": possibly "served as the historical adviser"?
 * Sure. — Crisco 1492 (talk) 13:39, 10 March 2014 (UTC)

As usual, a very nice read covering all the relevant points! Cheers - SchroCat (talk) 13:21, 10 March 2014 (UTC)
 * Thanks for reading this over! — Crisco 1492 (talk) 13:39, 10 March 2014 (UTC)

Comments from Cassianto

 * "The second production by Star Film, Tjioeng Wanara was released on 18 August 1941 and advertised heavily," sounds a bit clunky. How about "The second production by Star Film, Tjioeng Wanara was heavily advertised and released on 18 August 1941"?
 * How's this?
 * Good. -- Cassianto talk  08:13, 11 March 2014 (UTC)


 * "JB Kristanto's Katalog Film Indonesia records the film..." -- Film →Film. Any chance of avoiding the slight repeat here?
 * How's this?
 * Good. -- Cassianto talk  08:13, 11 March 2014 (UTC)


 * "Waldy had made his film debut in 1940's Zoebaida for Oriental Film Company, later joining Star for Pah Wongso; Joenara and Arief had made their screen debut in the latter film. Djoenaedi and Sukran made their feature film debut in Tjioeng Wanara." -- could these debuts be reduced?
 * How's this?
 * Good. -- Cassianto talk  08:13, 11 March 2014 (UTC)


 * "The film was based on a Sundanese legend of the same name..." – I know for people we start a new para with their name. Should this work for a film too?
 * Agree. Break up the "The film" paragraphs. — Crisco 1492 (talk) 23:18, 10 March 2014 (UTC)


 * "The premiere of Tjioeng Wanara was to a packed theatre." →"The premiere of Tjioeng Wanara was shown to a packed theatre."
 * Done. — Crisco 1492 (talk) 08:39, 11 March 2014 (UTC)


 * "An anonymous review in the Soerabaijasch Handelsblad was positive, considering the film successful in its adaptation of the legend" -- Not sure the "considering" works here. "An anonymous review in the Soerabaijasch Handelsblad was positive and considered the film to be successful in its adaptation of the legend" would be better IMO.
 * Added "to be".


 * "Neither Djoenaedi nor Sukran is recorded as making another film" -- Why do we use the singular here when describing two people? Cassianto talk  15:50, 10 March 2014 (UTC)
 * D'oh! Done. — Crisco 1492 (talk) 23:18, 10 March 2014 (UTC)

Comments from Sarastro

 * ”The second production by Star Film, Tjioeng Wanara was released on 18 August 1941 and advertised heavily, emphasising the fact that the scholar Poerbatjaraka had served as the historical adviser and that the film was based on Balai Pustaka's version of the legend”: I think there is a touch too much going on here. I would have the “second film” part in another sentence; maybe the end of the previous one. Also, maybe “and was advertised heavily in [the press? billboards?]” as “and advertised heavily” could be read as meaning that it featured a lot of adverts.
 * I've split the sentence.


 * ”It received mixed reviews, but premiered to commercial success”: Would it not chronologically be the other way around?
 * Sure. — Crisco 1492 (talk) 23:18, 10 March 2014 (UTC)


 * ”Permana Dikoesoemah warns Aria Kebonan to always respect him and to not bother his wife”: While split infinitives are not the end of the world for some people, I generally prefer not to split wherever possible if doing so does not mangle the sentence.
 * Star Trek approach, aborted. — Crisco 1492 (talk) 23:18, 10 March 2014 (UTC)


 * ”…then abdicates to meditate before ultimately ascending to a higher plane of existence”: And the third infinitive in the sentence may be overload, particularly with another “to” following.
 * Split. — Crisco 1492 (talk) 23:18, 10 March 2014 (UTC)


 * ”Tjioeng Wanara was directed and produced by Jo Eng Sek for Star Film, the second production by both Jo and the company, following Pah Wongso Pendekar Boediman in 1940.”: Would “and was” work better after “Star Film” here?
 * Split. — Crisco 1492 (talk) 23:18, 10 March 2014 (UTC)


 * ”By June 1941 production was almost complete.”: I suppose it’s too much to hope that we know when it was actually complete?
 * No, my sources don't give a date / month of completion. I'm assuming something gunked up the works before the July release date, but no sources give detail on that. — Crisco 1492 (talk) 23:18, 10 March 2014 (UTC)


 * ”The film was based on a Sundanese legend of the same name, retold by MA Salamoen in a Balai Pustaka-published edition which was then adapted by Rd Ariffien;”: Can we date the retelling?
 * 1938, done. — Crisco 1492 (talk) 23:18, 10 March 2014 (UTC)


 * ”as such, a review in the Bataviaasch Nieuwsblad found that little remained of the original tale except for the characters' names.”: Does this refer to the published or the film edition?
 * Review of the film. — Crisco 1492 (talk) 23:18, 10 March 2014 (UTC)


 * ”Balai Pustaka”: Would it be worth a sentence or two to explain what this was for the reader? (To save the need to follow links?)
 * Have added what is relevant. — Crisco 1492 (talk) 23:18, 10 March 2014 (UTC)

No problems otherwise. To be honest, this one does feel a little light; but knowing your incredible research, I believe this means that there is nothing else out there. I only wonder could any of the background be expanded, for example on the cast? But again, if the sources are exhausted, so be it. With these qualifications, I see no problems for FAC. Sarastro1 (talk) 20:22, 10 March 2014 (UTC)
 * Thanks for reviewing! As we've noted elsewhere, documentation on this period is really lacking. I've yet to find any information on Joenara's life before Pah Wongso (except for where she was born), and Waldy doesn't have much either. I haven't found information on the others, sadly. Overall, however, this is still considerably more detailed than what was available before. When writing his book, Biran doesn't appear to have had access to the Dutch newspapers. He doesn't have much on this film (as can be seen from the referencing). Neither he nor Kristanto include a plot summary, likely assuming that readers can look elsewhere for the legend (which brings up the issue of the legend not necessarily having the same plot points as the film... just check out different versions of the Hua Mulan legend to see my point: Disney had a very different take than Starlight International). — Crisco 1492 (talk) 23:18, 10 March 2014 (UTC)