Wikipedia:Peer review/Toa Payoh ritual murders/archive1

Toa Payoh ritual murders

 * A script has been used to generate a semi-automated review of the article for issues relating to grammar and house style; it can be found on the automated peer review page for December 2008.
 * A script has been used to generate a semi-automated review of the article for issues relating to grammar and house style; it can be found on the automated peer review page for December 2008.

This peer review discussion has been closed. I am listing this article for peer review, in the hopes of nominating it for Featured Article. The subject is a murder case: two children were killed by a trio. The case was a sensation in Singapore due to the revelations by the trio over their lifestyles and motivations. Sex, drugs, and violence, this case has it all. Thank you all. Jappalang (talk) 02:01, 15 December 2008 (UTC)

Brianboulton comments: A grisly story, compellingly told. The prose is generally good and clear. I have criticisms in two main areas:
 * Non-encyclopedic language: Although the article reads well, on many occasions it reads more like a magazine or newspaper account than an encyclopedia article. Or even like a well-written murder novel. That is not to say that encyclopedia articles must be dry and dull, but they should seek a relatively neutral, detached tone. Here are a few examples of phrases or expressions I find "non-encyclopedic":-
 * "As it turned out, transgressions in the Lion City might not be mild affairs, as illustrated in 1981" - this vaguely teasing approach is fine in a magazine, or in, say, a TV documentary, but not here. (Incidentally, you haven't explained the "Lion City" term, either.
 * "...had put up with the cacophony of..."
 * "Little did people know..." - that teasing voice again
 * "Stepping into the common corridor from the stairwell, Inspector Pereira was transfixed..."
 * "tricks of the trade"
 * The section and subsections "Unholy trinity" (novelistic, a bit clichéd) and "Adam Lim, the mastermind"
 * These are, as stated, examples. I suggest you try and tone these down, and also look for other instances where the same criticism might apply.


 * Over-detailing: This is a particular problem in the later stages of the article, particularly the sections dealing with the trial and its aftermath. There is simply too much detail here; I'd say these sections could be reduced by half and still give clear, summarised accounts. It's a case of a bit of blue pencil work.


 * Other than my main concerns, here are a few more trivial points picked up:-
 * Lack of an image in the lead impairs the presentation of the article. Surely, one of the images, probably that of Lim, should be promoted to the lead?
 * "...to ignore the transpirings..." is strange phrasing. "...to ignore what was happening..." would be more conventional.
 * Re Lim: "Described as a hot-tempered boy..." - described where and by whom?
 * "tricked his clients with several confidence tricks" - awkward repetition.

This has the potential to be a featured article. If you can consider the above points and perhaps act on them I will be happy to comment, and help where I can. Brianboulton (talk) 01:12, 16 December 2008 (UTC)
 * I have fixed all the above, except for the "over-detailing" and "further non-encyclopaedic content". A situation has cropped up at work, so for those two exceptions, I would try to resolve them later.  Jappalang (talk) 02:15, 16 December 2008 (UTC)

Ruhrfisch comments: As requested, here are some suggestions for improvement. I agree with Brian's comments above (I read the article before the fixes started) and must also admit that I was somewhat disturbed by the article and did not read it as closely as I perhaps should have. Ugh. Hope this helps. If my comments are useful, please consider peer reviewing an article, especially one at Peer review/backlog. Yours, Ruhrfisch &gt;&lt;&gt; &deg; &deg; 02:32, 18 December 2008 (UTC)
 * I think the captions need the most work.
 * I usually look at the lead picture and read its caption before reading the lead, but the needle and egg trick reference in the lead image caption just left me puzzled. Perhaps something like Adrian Lim conned many and was willing to kidnap, rape, and kill to further his goals. would work better?
 * The image of their flat is great, perhaps the caption could be something like Lim's flat (highlighted in red) was in Block 12 (right), Toa Payoh Lorong 7. By 2008, the neighboring Blocks 10 and 11 (centre and left) had been replaced with taller structures. The captions for Lim's accomplices are OK.
 * The altar photo should make it clearer this is Lim's altar, perhaps Lim prayed [at this altar] to a variety of gods, such as Buddha, Pragngan, and Kali.
 * Perhaps Singaporeans crowded the grounds of the Subordinate Court (pictured) and other courts to catch a glimpse of the killers.?
 * I would avoid overly general statement like ... and the population believed in spirits that inhabit the jungles, and in gods and devils that hovered around, capable of benevolence and mischief. Perhaps something like ... and most of the population believed in spirits that inhabit the jungles, and in gods and devils that hovered around, capable of benevolence and mischief.
 * I would link lift in Hours later, her body was found stuffed in a bag outside a lift in Block 11 ... as most Americans would think of this as an elevator
 * I am uncertain about the nature of the needle trick - I assume that the victim's did not know there were needles in the eggs (so their appearance on breaking the egg was impressive)? This needs to be made clearer.
 * Some editor's might find it better to refer to all three killers by name - things like and took Lim and his two women in for questioning might be seen as POV.
 * Thank you for the suggestions, I have fixed what you have pointed out (captions, clarification of trick, and POV-ish text). I will continue to try to trim the excessive details.  Jappalang (talk) 03:13, 18 December 2008 (UTC)
 * I know Awadewit frequently says we have to remember that not everyone in the world is as interested in all of the details as we (the principal authors of the articles) are. Perhaps this is why we are called "editors" ;-) . This is well done overall, just needs some polish Ruhrfisch &gt;&lt;&gt; &deg; &deg; 03:43, 18 December 2008 (UTC)

This is certainly a disturbing subject, but it led to a very interesting article. I agree with the above that some of the language sounds a bit melodramatic. There are several instances of a slightly sensational sentence or two to set up what we are going to know, and I don't think those are necessary (the one that bothered me most - In 1981, the credence of the government's warning was proven by a crime that shocked the nation.). I didn't think that the trial section was too long, but I thought there might be too much detail on the three prepatrators. We may also not need as much detail on the previous rape. Overall, though, I thought this a well-written article, and if the language is toned down just a bit I would probably support it at FAC with the content intact. Karanacs (talk) 21:40, 18 December 2008 (UTC)
 * Karanacs
 * Alas, my reading habits have spilled into my work (too many novels and "exciting" accounts, too little down-to-earth non-fiction...). I will keep trying to tone them down&mdash;have to find a better way to segue one section into another.  Time to see if I can better summarize the details on Lim, Tan, and Hoe, as well as the Lucy Lau incident.  Thank you!  Jappalang (talk) 22:12, 18 December 2008 (UTC)