Wikipedia:Peer review/Tyla (album)/archive1

Tyla (album)


I've listed this article for Peer Review because I think it has the potential to become a Featured Article.  dxneo  (talk) 07:23, 10 June 2024 (UTC)

Comments
Hello! I have some general comments first which will hopefully help get things started here.
 * "To Last" seems to be 2:56 long according to the included tracklist, so the maximum permitted sample length would be 17.6 seconds. Although two samples is kind of hard to justify, so you could let go of this sample and just keep the other one, which is of appropriate length.
 * Reply: ✅


 * Both all caps and all lowercase are not used while writing publication names in references, for example, you would want to change every instance of "UPROXX" to "Uproxx", "the journalist dj" to "The Journalist DJ", etc.
 * Reply: ✅


 * There should also be a consistent format. I would suggest getting rid of the url format (www.ra.co, digital.abcaudio.com) and using just names (RA, ABC Audio) instead.
 * Reply: ✅


 * Student newspapers are not allowed at FA, for example Massachusetts Daily Collegian
 * A non-primary source Tiktok should definitely not be used as a source (like this one)
 * This is a bit of a pain to do, but MOS:CONFORMTITLE is a surprisingly big deal at FACs so that would have to be consistently applied. That means choosing either sentence case or title case, consistently, for every ref title. Also, you would want to link the website/publisher in every reference where they have an article.
 * Reply: ✅


 * Frankly, I am completely unfamiliar with the reliability of most of the African sources included. But any sources included in WP:RSPSS and not green-linked are a no-no.
 * Reply: I did not find any of the cited source listed at WP:RSPSS


 * Have you looked at print reviews that may not have been published online? These can be found using databases like Newspapers.com. If any of these exist and haven't been included in an article, that can be swiftly used to get an FAC closed.
 * I will go more in-depth in the prose after the above is addressed, but in the meantime I had a few questions.
 * Reply: There are some articles with the word "Tyla" the singer, but unfortunately they are subscription required so I cannot access any of them.


 * "Capitalizing on her international breakthrough with its lead single "Water", the album features guest appearances" - What is the correlation between the success of "Water" and the decision to include guest appearances? Isn't it a solo hit?
 * Reply: I believe the editor was talking about the album collaborations when they mentioned "guest appearances," not the song.


 * "Recording sessions for Tyla took place in seven countries over two and a half years as Epic Records focused on fostering the singer's formal studio experience" - You want to avoid using "the singer" and just use Tyla's name or "her" instead. Also, the meaning of the second part of this sentence is kind of unclear.
 * Reply: ✅


 * "Production and songwriting on the album were spearheaded by the singer and her frequent collaborators" - I am curious how she already has "frequent collaborators", considering this is her debut album. I would also deem the "Fantastic Four" bit unnecessary to include in the lead.
 * Reply: ✅


 * I think the success of "Water" deserves to be highlighted more in the lead, since it is multiplatinum in so many countries and reached the top 10 in Australia, New Zealand, the UK and the US.
 * Reply: Wouldn't that be a bit off topic as there is a whole "Water" article linked and a little discussed under the Singles section? If you feel like it must be more highlighted, please do tell and I'll work on it.


 * "many critics praising the versatility of the music genres featured" - Did they praise the versatility of the genres or Tyla's versatility for being able to do so many genres?
 * Reply: ✅


 * It's unnecessary to say the album's success was "moderate", unless a secondary source made such a distinction.
 * That covers some of the sourcing and the lead section. I hope you are liking the review so far. Best, NØ 15:45, 19 June 2024 (UTC)
 * I will attend more requests after an hour, and yes, the review is fine and a lot of work too.  dxneo  (talk) 13:33, 20 June 2024 (UTC)
 * , I think I've covered everything here.  dxneo  (talk) 14:10, 20 June 2024 (UTC)


 * There still seems to be a mix of sentence cased reference titles ("Tyla hits up Shoreditch, Byredo's new store opens & more this week") and title cased ones ("Tyla Plans Announced The 2024 'Tyla Tour' In North America And Europe"). Also, the magazine is called People and not "Peoplemag", so all instances should consistently be changed to the former.
 * "Capitalizing on her international breakthrough with its lead single "Water", the album features guest appearances from Kelvin Momo, Tems, Gunna, Skillibeng, Becky G, and Travis Scott." - The problem with this sentence is that the structure implies a correlation between the events. I think you can just remove the bit before the comma from here and mention the success of "Water" later in the lead along with the other singles.
 * The originally scheduled March 1 release date does not look relevant enough for a mention in the lead to me, given the proximity to the eventual release date.
 * Regarding mentioning the success of "Water" in the lead, you could do it briefly with a short sentence, like: "The album was supported by four singles: "Water", which reached the top 10 and achieved multi-platinum certifications in multiple countries, "Truth or Dare", "Art", and "Jump"."
 * The key to good prose is being concise wherever possible. Some examples:
 * "In 2021, Tyla signed a recording contract with the record label and then departed from South Africa for the first time in her life in order to attend a writing camp in Dubai, United Arab Emirates, where the label had organized a songwriting camp for Tyla." → "In 2021, Tyla signed a contract with the label and left South Africa for the first time to attend a writing camp they had organized for her in Dubai."
 * "It was during this time that she met Ari PenSmith, Mocha Bands, Believve and Sammy SoSo, who would go on to become her collaborators and handle the majority of the production and songwriting work on Tyla" → "During the sessions, she met Ari PenSmith, Mocha Bands, Believve and Sammy SoSo, who later produced and wrote most of Tyla."
 * " While speaking on the album's sound before its release, Tyla described the album as an "experimental album " in December 2023." Also, the statement she gave in October should appear before the December one.
 * There is too much repetition of "the album" in the second paragraph of the Background and release section. Try varying it with "Tyla" or "it"
 * "She had extended the album submission date to collaborate with the Nigerian singer Tems on the song "No.1" - Not sure why this statement would appear after the mention of the album release. It should definitely go earlier in the paragraph
 * I apologize for stressing this, but two samples are hard to justify according to the NFCC. The prose says "Jump" is the only trap-infused song on the album, so I would assume it is not representative of the whole album's sound and thus should be removed. The "Truth or Dare" sample is more fitting since I guess it represents the amapiano sound of the album.
 * The second statement in the "Truth or Dare" sample caption is not a full sentence but a period is used after it.
 * "Tai Saint-Louis of HipHopDX noted that "the project is a collection of mid-tempo bops that could easily serve as background music for a dinner party, workout or study session." and Beats Per Minute described Tyla as a solid record with no skips." - These are subjective critical opinions, not a factual description of the music, and as such are more fit for the Critical reception section rather than Composition. You would just want to include objective descriptions of the musical styles/genres here.
 * "Opening with "Intro", with production from South African record producer Kelvin Momo, is a 41-second recording that plays in the background while people converse" - This does not seem to be a grammatically correct sentence. Also, I do not think such a big quote about "Intro" is appropriate in this section since it should be about evenly split between the different tracks.
 * I have seen people take issue with Musicnotes at FAC so my suggestion would be to remove it.
 * "It is a pop, and R&B infused amapiano song' - No comma required between pop and R&B
 * "It is described as a "kind of naughty song"" - Who is describing it as such? Direct quotes should all be attributed. Honestly, this characterization isn't very useful for readers to understand the musical composition of the song so I would remove it altogether.
 * "Tyla sings about the desire of a woman to experience a squirting orgasm" - This sounds a bit informal to be in wikivoice and does not seem to have been paraphrased enough from the source.
 * ""Truth or Dare", the fourth song in the album, is described as a slab of afrobeats and amapiano" - Wherever it is mentioned that something is being "described", readers would be curious who is doing it. You could mention the critic
 * "On the chorus, Tyla sings about reminiscing about the times when her then-lover used to mistreat her" - close repetition of "about"
 * "she's challenging him to catch up" - No contractions outside quotation marks
 * "The seventh song on the album, "Butterflies", is a distinct fusion of hip hop, pop, and R&B" - distinct from what?
 * "a great song to just groove to; the subdued atmosphere makes for an intimate experience, heightened by Tyla's luscious vocal performance," - purely subjective and also does not really belong in the Composition section
 * "Tyla's objectives are to maintain the leaders of the movement at the forefront and to promote the pride and sounds of her nation as she sings "they ain't never had a pretty girl from Jo'burg, see me now and that's what they prefer" on "Jump"" - convoluted
 * "featuring not so smooth vocals from Gunna, and Skillibeng" - informal, and the comma isn't needed
 * ""Jump" opens with an intro by Skillibeng complimenting Tyla, calling her "an original gyal," then Tyla jumped in for the first verse with braggadocio" - mid-sentence tense switch
 * "Described as the most pleasantly erotic song Tyla has released since "Water" is "Art", the tenth song in the album" - this is an oddly framed sentence
 * Apologies but the Composition and lyrics section is currently not up to standard and will require complete rewriting before it can be considered at FAC. It would help to look at this section on existing FAs as a reference. There are many unattributed quotes and informal language.
 * "On 30 November 2023, she performed "On and On" on the German music performance platform ColorsxStudios, then performed an unreleased remix version of "Water" with South African DJ and record producer Black Coffee" - this reads odd
 * The singles section should include some of the other countries "Water" went top 10 in, since that is quite an impressive achievement.
 * Not sure why the picture of Scott and Gunna is in this section?
 * This section is way too long... 1989 is a good reference for rewriting this part. Only the really important information about the singles should be included and it should be done in a succinct manner.
 * The Critical reception section has way too many quotes that could stand to be paraphrased a bit. It should also be arranged into themes in accordance with WP:RECEPTION and condensed a bit to club similar themes from different reviewers.
 * The YouTube playlist external link is not necessary. I would suggest replacing it with the Discogs.com listing.
 * The copyvio score is higher than optimal on three sources and needs to be brought down.
 * The new batch of comments is a lot of work so I hope you take your time with this and do not feel overwhelmed! I see you have put it up for a WP:GOCE copyedit already, which should significantly help break down the long sentences and take care of the comma issues. Tyla is a talented artist, and I am always happy to help bring attention to Epic Records artists considering how terrible the label treats them... Hopefully this helped and this can attract more reviewers. Cheers, NØ 17:19, 21 June 2024 (UTC)


 * Hello, I have tried to address the issues raised here with assistance from GOCE. My only worry is the Composition and lyrics section since you said it's far from meeting the FAC standard, we worked on it, and trimmed the article. I swear the article lost lots of calories than Gunna sweating after snitching haha. Please look at it and give me the feedback. I only left out Critical reception for later since (only the prose) wasn't written by me and it doesn't seem to carry a lot of work. I'm really tapped out sheesh. I also addressed the lead single issues and so on for taking this review mate, you the best.  dxneo  (talk) 16:24, 6 July 2024 (UTC)
 * I must say I am a bit disappointed after reading this discussion. If "slavishly obeying" the suggestions downgrades the article's quality then there is no need to accept them. I had recommended 1989 as an example so that the Singles section could be accommodated into the Release and promotion section for better flow, and nowhere was it suggested that it is a "one size fits all". This has not been done... Anyways, I no longer feel comfortable proceeding with FAC mentorship for this article but I wish you well.--NØ 15:19, 7 July 2024 (UTC)
 * bro please wait, I have addressed your requests as the nominator. I actually think you are good at this stuff that's why I came to you first. I was trying to be polite and mostly undid GOCE edits while trimming down the article. I politely brought up your suggestions into that conversation just so the other editor can see where we are heading but it seems like they didn't care and they also thought we are working towards GA which was also wrong. Please help me out, I really really need your help.  dxneo  (talk) 16:54, 7 July 2024 (UTC)
 * Okay, tell you what, as part of my apology, I'm willing to review "Hands on Me" but it's gonna take me at least three nights (UTC+2). Please help me, and please don't go soft on me, I'm willing to work on it until you feel like it's ready for FAC. I really want this to work.  dxneo  (talk) 17:02, 7 July 2024 (UTC)
 * You do not have to apologize as it is really not about me. It is important to understand that FAC is a community-driven process. It would be open for everybody to comment in, and most people are actually less lenient than me when it comes to scrutinizing. Me going "hard" or "soft" would not determine the outcome of the FAC. In fact, since FAC is time-bound unlike a peer review, you would have a harder time addressing things when people bring them up there compared to here. The article is still a long distance away from being ready, and you have not even implemented the three sentence suggestions which had to be pasted in the Background and release section verbatim... I suggest you work with somebody else. Although every comment that is already here should be addressed before nominating, since unaddressed PR comments usually spell doom for an FAC. Thanks.--NØ 17:51, 7 July 2024 (UTC)
 * OK.  dxneo  (talk) 17:54, 7 July 2024 (UTC)

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I have added this article to Template:FAC peer review sidebar. Please consider reviewing other articles listed there. Z1720 (talk) 16:52, 20 June 2024 (UTC)