Wikipedia:Peer review/U.S. Route 70 in Arizona/archive1

U.S. Route 70 in Arizona
I'm listing this article on behalf of. I will be posting my review shortly. Thanks, –Fredddie™ 03:44, 4 July 2019 (UTC)

I said I could do it over the next few days, but I decided to just do it tonight. This is my standard review format; starting with the infobox, I go line by line and make recommendations for improving the article. I want this to be conversational and not adversarial. If you disagree with something I suggest, explain why so I can see it from your POV. Your goal should be for this article to become a FA. It's my intention to help you get there. –Fredddie™ 03:52, 4 July 2019 (UTC)


 * Infobox and lead
 * 1) I think there are too many words in the infobox history parameter; each bullet point should be one line.
 * 2) If there's a city or town near the NM state line, I'd mention it just for some geographical reference.
 * 3) The second sentence in the lead has some issues:
 * I wouldn't call it the current route. I mean, it's been in this location since 1935.
 * I'd mention in what direction US 70 runs.
 * "The route starts at US 60 in Globe and runs southeasterly through the San Carlos Indian Reservation, ..."
 * 1) Is the sentence about concurrencies necessary?
 * 2) This is a good place to mention the physical surroundings. What's the terrain like? Arid, duh. But is it hilly? Mountainous? Runs next to a river?
 * 3) Ideally, a summary of the history is its own paragraph in the lead. That's why I split them.
 * 4) I'm from Iowa but I sorta know my way around Arizona. I don't know where Holbrook is without looking it up.  You could start the second paragraph with "Originally, US 70 was designated farther north than it is today.  It began at US 66 in Holbrook and headed southeast through St. Johns before entering New Mexico near Springerville.  Today those cities are served by US 180 from Holbrook to Springerville and US 60 from Springerville to New Mexico.  That routing was removed in 1932."
 * 5) When you say it was entirely concurrent with US 60 to LA, you mean from Globe to LA, right? What you have now could be misconstrued.


 * RD
 * 1) The first sentence is wordy. Look at the difference while retaining the meaning.
 * The western terminus of U.S. Route 70 is at an intersection with US 60 and State Route 77 in Globe.
 * U.S. Route 70 begins at an intersection with US 60 and State Route 77 in Globe.
 * This is one example of what I mean by being descriptive and concise at the same time.
 * 1) Don't forget to define your abbreviations (SR and BIA)
 * 2) The rest of the RD is good. I see you split the route into three sections and tried to keep the sections the same length.  It keeps the prose moving.


 * History
 * 1) Were any of the routings of US 70 state routes before 1926? Auto trails?
 * 2) Here's a spot where you had a thought, talked about something else, and then went back to the original thought:
 * By 1928, none of US 70 was paved, but more than half of the highway had an improved surface. On the other hand, US 180 was paved between Pima and San Jose.[5] By 1929, the unimproved sections of US 70 had been graded.
 * By 1928, none of US 70 was paved, but more than half of the highway had an improved surface, though by the next year the unimproved sections had been graded. On the other hand, US 180 was paved between Pima and San Jose.[5]
 * See how the one thought is completed and the other thought is still relevant and no meaning is lost.
 * 1) This is a big question. Why was US 70 truncated out of Arizona in 1932?
 * 2) This is another big question. Why did US 70 replace US 180 in 1935?

This looks fine. I'm not sure about the relevance of former SR 170, but I won't debate it today.
 * Major intersections

What is the relevance of I-10?
 * See also

This is where it's important to get access to the newspaper archives. Map references serve a purpose, but you can only glean so much from maps. Currently there are 19 refs, 13 of them are maps. All but one of the refs that are not maps are from ADOT. So there's a good opportunity to mix up from where you're getting your information.
 * References

Feel free to answer inline or answer below – whatever works best for you. –Fredddie™ 03:52, 4 July 2019 (UTC)

Response
Thank you very much for the peer review. It helps me understand where I could have written or talked about things differently. I also appreciate you giving me tips on where to improve what currently exists in the article itself. I would like to replace I-10 in Arizona with US 60, but Imzadi removed it from See Also along with US 180. To really understand the wacky history behind US 70, you have to look into the history of US 60 as well. The history behind both highways have been intertwined and mostly inseparable since US 60 was extended west in 1931. I know the basic reason why US 70 was truncated out of Arizona for three years, and it was because US 60 was extended into Arizona over almost its entire route between Clovis, New Mexico and its western terminus, save for the last several miles between St. Johns and Holbrook. It's kind of fitting considering it was almost a sign of things to come. US 60 was the new highway and went to Los Angeles, plus had the backing of multiple politicians across the country, with lobbyists in Kentucky especially pushing for US 60 to be a transcontinental route running through their state. These people are the same ones who essentially forced the Los Angeles to Chicago crowd to renumber the original US 60 to US 66. Since US 60 was the politically appraised route and went to California where US 70 ended in a small town of less significance in Arizona, it's not hard to see why US 70 got the boot.

AASHO, New Mexico and Texas experimented with a new route to El Paso, Texas from Clovis between 1932 and 1935, but other politicians began backing US 70 just as hard as the Kentucky crowd was backing US 60. In 1935, US 70 between El Paso and Clovis, then was designated to Los Angeles using any available existing roads. Its obvious when looking at a map, they tried to keep US 70 as far away from US 60 as possible where there was room, hence why it was routed through Las Cruces and Lordsburg with US 80. The next obvious direct route from there was up US 180, which like US 70 did years before, got the boot due to less significance. Then of course there's the issue of no direct highway that wasn't already taken between Los Angeles and Globe, so US 70 was given its infamous multiplex with US 60 to the Golden State. California at least "tried" to alleviate this issue later by re-routing US 70 and US 99 further north on a routing between US 66 and US 60. But even there, all that did was allow US 60 to have only a few miles alone and US 70 was still multiplexed with another route. The rest of the history from there truncation wise is pretty self evident and I would argue fairly well known among the highway community. Of course some of what I said is just educated speculation from reading the full history behind US 70's wacky journey across the western states. The others could be well sourced, but I'll have to dig deep to really confirm it. It might be hard to find a straight up anecdote saying "US 70 was removed between Holbrook and Clovis because US 60 made it redundant and we prefer this highway over the other." I'll do my best though. I do have a Newspapers.com account and I have been using it to fix the article for US 80 in Arizona. It also really came in handy with the US 80 in Alabama article. Though it was a bit simpler because I kind of already knew what to expect when researching US 80. I suppose I have the same general gist for US 70, so honestly, I have nothing to lose giving it a shot. I'm wondering if I should restructure the history section as follows:

First section:
 * US 70 designated between Holbrook and Clovis in 1926.
 * Detailed history of US 70 on this route including paving and improvement projects.
 * US 60 is extended to LA along US 70 from St Johns to Clovis.
 * US 70 is shifted to El Paso to make way for US 60.

Second section:
 * US 180 is designated along the current route in 1926.
 * Detailed history of US 70 on this route including paving and improvement projects.
 * US 180 is replaced in favor of US 70.

Third section:
 * Describing improvements and changes to the route between Globe and New Mexico with less emphasis on the route between Los Angeles and Globe, given that's more of something that should be described in the US 60 articles.
 * Truncation of US 70 to Globe after the 1964 Renumbering starts a domino effect in California.

If you have any additions to this proposed layout or suggestions, please let me know. This history section is jumbled and confusing because I honestly have never handled a situation in writing before where an active U.S. Highway was removed from a state, then brought back again on a different route. It's a confusing case of US 70 in Arizona being the same route, yet a completely different route at the same time. On one hand, it's still US 70. On the other, its not the same highway that was designated between 1926 and 1932. And adding to that problem is the fact we have a very similar situation with US 180 on the exact same routes. Though with US 180, it is a different highway all together that was designated into Arizona and not the original that was completely retired in 1935.

I'd also like to thank you again for taking time out of your schedule to help me with this issue and improve my writing skills. It really means a lot to me. I love writing and trying to help better spread the knowledge of historic highways to the public. This is also good feedback to help me better construct the US 95 in Arizona article currently taking shape in my personal sandbox.

Cheers!

-MatthewAnderson707 (talk|sandbox) 05:23, 4 July 2019 (UTC)
 * In the history section, don't feel like you're limited to three sections. I only use that method to keep the RD prose moving.  Each thought should have its own section and then you talk at length about that thought.  Going back to articles I'd mentioned before, compare the histories of U.S. Route 34 in Iowa and U.S. Route 75 in Iowa.  Sometimes the thoughts are one paragraph, sometimes you find a lot of information in the papers and you can talk for a while. –Fredddie™ 01:27, 11 July 2019 (UTC)

Outline
If I were writing an outline for the history section, this is what I'd do. –Fredddie™ 04:04, 11 July 2019 (UTC)


 * Mini-lead
 * 1) This should be the last part written because you don't necessarily know now what you're going to write.
 * 2) Using the principles of WP:LEAD, it summarizes what's written below. This would be a great place to mention that US 70 has had two different routings in the state but it's ultimately the same highway.


 * Original routing
 * Here, I wouldn't spend too much time. US 180 doesn't have a state-detail article for Arizona as of yet, but if it did, that article would be the best place for the original US 70's history.  What I'd do here is summarize what a potential US 180 AZ history section would look like into two paragraphs.


 * 1) Main article link to U.S. Route 180 or U.S. Route 180 in Arizona
 * 2) Use this ADOT document as a guide.
 * 3) Territorial highway (a couple sentences, no need to dwell on it)
 * 4) Auto trail (Map)
 * National Old Trails Road; seems to be a southern branch from Albuquerque to Holbrook
 * 1) Becoming US 70
 * I think I have some sentences somewhere that you could use (with attribution of course) that talk about why the auto trail system wasn't sustainable.
 * 1) Redundant to US 60
 * Talk about why US 60 was extended to Los Angeles
 * US 70 was truncated back to where? Why that location?
 * Rest of the route became US 260


 * I would spend the most time from here on. This is the current(ish) route, so it's especially relevant for this article.  I'd probably make this section three or four paragraphs


 * Re-establishment in Arizona
 * 1) Use this ADOT document as a guide.
 * 2) Background
 * Gila River Trail era
 * Lee Highway
 * U.S. Route 180 (1926–1935)
 * Coolidge Dam construction
 * Paving history?
 * 1) Becoming US 70
 * Main article link to U.S. Route 60 in Arizona
 * As you mentioned, it's better to talk at length on the US 60 page, so we should limit this section to east of Globe.
 * Why was it important to bring US 70 back into Arizona?
 * Why was it important to extend US 70 to Los Angeles? Why overlap US 60?
 * Was there any increased traffic on US 60 once US 70 was extended? (This will probably be hard to answer)
 * 1) Route changes
 * Changes in this era were primarily straightening
 * Bypassing Coolidge Dam in 1950s
 * Repaving?
 * 1) Effect of Interstate Highway System
 * California eliminates US 70
 * Pulled back to Globe in 1969
 * 1) Improvements in recent years

Response
Thank you very much for the ledes and suggestions. I'll begin work and construction of the History section on my personal sandbox as soon as I get a new computer. Unfortunately my PC which was invaluable in helping me eith these projects was destroyed in an accident last week and it will be another 4 days before a new one arrives. I am very tbankful Newspapers.com has many invaluable resources on Arizona newspapers and highways. To look for reasoning as to why US 70 was truncated and repatriated, I'll also comb through the newspapers of other states including California, Kentucky and North Carolina. I know for a fact the effort to extend US 60 west was directly involved with Governor William J Fields of Kentucky and a group of US 60 proponents. I imagine a group in either North Carolina, Tennessee or Arkansas were responsible for the repatriation of US 70 to Arizona and the extension to Los Angeles. -MatthewAnderson707 (talk|sandbox) 15:59, 13 July 2019 (UTC)