Wikipedia:Peer review/Urse d'Abetot/archive1

Urse d'Abetot

 * A script has been used to generate a semi-automated review of the article for issues relating to grammar and house style; it can be found on the automated peer review page for May 2009.
 * A script has been used to generate a semi-automated review of the article for issues relating to grammar and house style; it can be found on the automated peer review page for May 2009.

This peer review discussion has been closed. I've listed this article for peer review because I'd like to take it to FAC and would appreciate help in noticing any bits that aren't clear to a non-medievalist, as well as prose flow and other concerns.

Thanks, Ealdgyth - Talk 15:18, 23 May 2009 (UTC)

Ruhrfisch comments: Content looks good, but I think it needs a copyedit and to provide context in a few places. So here are some specific suggestions for improvement with an eye to FAC.
 * The lead should be longer per WP:LEAD (I think at least two paragraphs are needed).
 * Will work on this. This article just sorta grew and grew and grew. Considering the little we know about the guy, I'm pretty impressed by the size of the thing! Ealdgyth - Talk 17:07, 12 June 2009 (UTC)


 * I am unclear on both parts of his name. There is the cryptic statement that Urse may be a nickname given his "tenacious temperament" but no explanation what Urse means. Drawing on my very rusty Latin, I assume it is derived from Ursa (bear) - are these considered to be tenacious animals? Whatever the case, it needs a note of explanation. Also his last name is apparently from the village, but the link goes to La Cerlangue, which makes no mention of the name St Jean d'Abbetot. Again some sort of explanation (even Adding "known today as La Cerlangue" would be helpful. It might also help to explain why his brother's name was completely different.
 * clarified Ealdgyth - Talk 17:07, 12 June 2009 (UTC)


 * Maybe it is just having read Ivanhoe at an early age, but I think it would help to give a few sentences on the Norman Conquest and the whole Saxon vs. Norman dynamic - I assume at least part of his land acquisitions were because of the whole Norman Conquest
 * Added background section. Ealdgyth - Talk 17:07, 12 June 2009 (UTC)


 * It might also help to have a bit more background on the rebellion of 1075, as well as a few sentences on what a sherriff had to do then.
 * A bit more has been added. Why they rebelled is unknown. Ealdgyth - Talk 17:07, 12 June 2009 (UTC)


 * Article is decently written, but could use a copyedit to smooth / polish things (I know you usually get someone to do this). Awkward sentence Urse also acquired after Æthelwig's death lands that Æthelwig had seized through less than legal means, when Odo of Bayeux, Bishop of Bayeux and half-brother of William I, presided at the lawsuit brought to determine the ownership of the lands. This might be better as something like After Abbot Æthelwig's death, Urse also acquired lands that Æthelwig had seized through less than legal means, when Odo of Bayeux, Bishop of Bayeux and half-brother of William I, presided at the lawsuit brought to determine the ownership of the lands.
 * fixed Ealdgyth - Talk 17:07, 12 June 2009 (UTC)


 * I would make clear it is William II in In 1088, shortly after William became king, Urse was present at the trial of William de St-Calais, the Bishop of Durham,[30] ...
 * fixed Ealdgyth - Talk 17:07, 12 June 2009 (UTC)


 * Might be useful to explain in a sentence or two how Henry seized the throne.
 * fixed Ealdgyth - Talk 17:07, 12 June 2009 (UTC)


 * I don't like having the first sentence in a section with a pronoun (He died... would read better as Urse died...). Some people will skip sections and this could be confusing as is.
 * Fixed. I agree and just missed it before. Ealdgyth - Talk 17:07, 12 June 2009 (UTC)


 * Did his son die? Urse was suceeded as sheriff by his son Roger d'Abetot, and Roger's successor Osbert d'Abetot probably was a brother of Urse
 * Well, obviously Roger died sometime (grins) but no, he lost office because he was exiled. Clarified in the text. Ealdgyth - Talk 17:07, 12 June 2009 (UTC)


 * I think adding a map showing the position of Worcester in England would help and provide another image
 * Will hunt. Ealdgyth - Talk 17:07, 12 June 2009 (UTC)

Hope this helps. If my comments are useful, please consider peer reviewing an article, especially one at Peer review/backlog (which is how I found this article). Yours, Ruhrfisch &gt;&lt;&gt; &deg; &deg; 01:54, 3 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Working on these, thanks SOOO much. I didn't add the link to La Cerlangue, I have no idea whether the two places are linked, so I've removed the piping of the link until I uncover something that connects them. Ealdgyth - Talk 17:43, 5 June 2009 (UTC)