Wikipedia:Peer review/What's a Nice Girl Like You Doing in a Place Like This?/archive1

What's a Nice Girl Like You Doing in a Place Like This?


This article is about the first film Martin Scorsese created when he was studying at New York University. I will appreciate your thoughts on this. Thanks,  CAPTAIN MEDUSA   talk  18:51, 3 August 2020 (UTC)

Comments from Aoba47
Although I had initially said no to a post on my talk page about reviewing this, I will try to help as best I can to hopefully encourage other editors to participate as well. I will put up my full review sometime today. Aoba47 (talk) 19:38, 11 August 2020 (UTC)


 * In this sentence, "It is a comedic piece about a writer who becomes obsessed with a picture on his wall.", I would avoid using the phrase "comedic piece" as the "piece" word choice is particularly vague. I think something like "story" would be a better substitute.
 * Done.


 * For this sentence, "The film features Zeph Michaelis, Mimi Stark, Sarah Braveman, Fred Sica, and Robert Uricola.", I would use "stars" rather than "features". The next sentence uses "features" so it is somewhat repetitive, and I think "stars" provides a clearer meaning.
 * Done.


 * In the lead, I do not think the "for the first time" phrasing is necessary as I believe that can be safely assumed from context.
 * Done.


 * I am not really sure what this part "Scorsese has said it has no depth at all" means. What does he mean by "depth" in this context?
 * Maybe it has no "meaning" at all?
 * It still does not make that much sense (at least to me). Is this notable enough to include in the lead? It may be better to say that Scorsese was disappointed in the final result or something similar. Aoba47 (talk) 17:03, 17 August 2020 (UTC)
 * , I have removed it from the lead.  CAPTAIN MEDUSA   talk  17:14, 17 August 2020 (UTC)


 * I am not sure why but this sentence "A writer, Algernon, also called Harry by his friends, moves into a new apartment." just seems off to me. Maybe it is because there are multiple commas breaking up the sentence.
 * Done.


 * I would combine these two sentences, "He sees a picture of a boat on a lake; though he dislikes it, he buys it because of the persuasive salesman", to something like: "He purchases a picture of a boat on a lake from a persuasive salesman although he dislikes it." The current wording reads somewhat choppy to me.
 * Done.


 * The word "picture" is used frequently throughout the first paragraph of the "Plot" section, and I would try to avoid such repetition.
 * Done.


 * I was somewhat confused when I first read this sentence: "He finds her very attractive but does not develop any obsessive feelings around her." Why would he develop "obsessive feelings" for a girl in the first place? It just seemed to come out of nowhere to me.
 * Done.


 * For this part "After the honeymoon, they live a normal married life. Algernon starts to write a book of confessions, and the girl paints pictures.", I would cut it down to "After their honeymoon, Algernon starts to write a book of confessions, and the girl paints pictures." as I do not think the "they live a normal married life" part is particularly informative.
 * Done.


 * What is a "book of confessions"?
 * This article sums it pretty well: A confession is a statement – made by a person or by a group of persons – acknowledging some personal fact that the person (or the group) would ostensibly prefer to keep hidden. ( see the page history for attribution)
 * Thank you for the response, but I already knew what a confession was. I just never heard of "book of confessions" before. I guess it should be pretty explanatory though. Aoba47 (talk) 17:03, 17 August 2020 (UTC)


 * I would link "psychoanalyst".
 * Done.


 * For this sentence, "However, after having a conversation with a psychoanalyst about his obsession with the picture, Algernon becomes focused on another picture, depicting an ocean", I would avoid repeating "picture" twice, especially since the word is used again in the very next sentence. Aoba47 (talk) 19:51, 11 August 2020 (UTC)
 * Done.


 * It seems weird that certain characters in the "Cast" section have articles (i.e. an analyst, the singer) and others have none (i.e. wife, friend). Is there a reason for this?
 * No reasons; made it consistent.


 * 8½ and Goodfellas are linked more than once in the body of the article. I would double-check the entire article to avoid having these duplicate links.
 * Done.


 * In the first paragraph of the "Themes" section, the sentences read rather choppily to me, and I think the prose could be much smoother to have the information read more like a cohesive narrative. I like how the first few sentences are about Algernon, but it is all just a little too choppy in my opinion. Another instance of this is that the transition from Nyce's assessment to Keyser's analysis seems rather random.
 * Done.


 * I would clarify in the prose that Norman Bates is from Psycho.
 * Done.

These are my comments up to the "Production" section. I will stop here to avoid adding too many comments at once. I hope this is somewhat helpful. Aoba47 (talk) 01:07, 12 August 2020 (UTC)
 * , Thank you for your comments. I believe I have resolved them.  CAPTAIN MEDUSA   talk  13:14, 17 August 2020 (UTC)
 * Have you tried reaching out to any of the editors from the past FAC or using the FAC mentoring scheme? Aoba47 (talk) 18:57, 17 August 2020 (UTC)
 * , I have but they don't seem to be responding to me.  CAPTAIN MEDUSA   talk  19:03, 17 August 2020 (UTC)
 * I would recommend asking someone else and approaching Ian Rose for advice since he recommended it in the first place. I am not a particularly good reviewer (and I would never describe myself as a mentor) so I think it would be better to get help from someone way more experienced than myself. Aoba47 (talk) 19:17, 17 August 2020 (UTC)

Comments from David Fuchs

 * The negative was cut incorrectly by a student, so Scorsese's professor asked Thelma Schoonmaker, who was also participating in the summer program to help him.—who is the "him" in this instance? The student? Scorcese? The professor?
 * He intended it to be a horror film, but it turned out to be a comedy—this seems like a really weird passive way to say this, as if suddenly the project jumped out and declared itself a comedy instead.
 * In terms of prose, the biggest issue I see is a lot of weirdly-constructed sentences with commas rather haphazardly thrown in. The above sentence about Schoonmaker is one example. At the other end of it, there's breathless sentences that sorely could use commas or splitting. WP:COMMA provides useful guidance here, for example:
 * Scorsese had initially intended to become a priest but failed out of seminary consequently he joined the New York University's Washington Square College (now known as the College of Arts and Science).[11][12] to
 * Scorsese intended to become a priest, but failed out of seminary. Consequently, he joined the New York University's Washington Square College (now known as the College of Arts and Science).
 * in the 4K resolution format just say "in 4K resolution." Resolution isn't intrinsically its own format.
 * A writer Algernon, also called Harry by his friends,—why bother mentioning he's called Harry? It never plays a role in the plot summary, and only comes up again in the cast.
 * He finds her very attractive but does not develop any obsessive feelings about the image around her.—hasn't he already developed obsessive feelings about the image?
 * But, the obsessiveness goes away when he is around her.


 * Martin Scorsese said it—if you're leading off sections, you should clarify pronouns.
 * associative editing—what is associative editing?
 * This explains it well

-- Der Wohltemperierte Fuchs talk 18:02, 29 August 2020 (UTC)
 * who failed to leave enough negative frames to allow for hot splicing—what does this mean?
 * But, the voice over in the film implies that there was a synchronized sound similar to the opening in Jules and Jim (1962), and Shoot the Piano Player (1960). I don't know what this means.
 * Author Vincent LoBrutto felt the film's title was a "cliché" and another writer found that it was similar to the title used in 8½ (1963)—I don't follow what the "other writer" is trying to say here. How is the title similar?
 * When you get to the reception section, I don't really think you need the false titles for "author so-and-so". We understand they're critics.
 * Author Jim Sangster said it has a connection to most of Scorsese's later films.—what are these connections? I suppose it's possible to assume they're related to the examples from Wolf of Wall Street and Dreams later on, but it should be explicit and synthesized together if the other critics have similar sentiments.
 * Many critics noted that many "thematic and technical aspects" used in the film can be seen in Scorsese's future works—this line is redundant with a bit earlier in the Themes section, but it's not elaborated on either way in any more detail.
 * In general I think the use of quotes, particularly in the critic and themes section, should be looked over and given a reduction where possible. Summarizing critical nonsensus and using quotes selectively reads stronger and more cohesively.
 * I'm not sure the literature represented is as thorough as it needs to be for FA criteria. Given that it's a more niche topic with comparatively less written about it, I think that means it need to thoroughly use the sources present. Based on the snippets from Gbooks, it looks like there's additional information that could be gleaned from the sources already used. Beyond that, I found several citations that could prove useful:
 * A Nice Little Irony: Life Lessons. Librach, Ronald S. Literature/Film Quarterly; Salisbury Vol. 24, Iss. 2, (1996): 128-144.
 * H'wood maverick Shaye still does it his way. Harris, Dana; Cercel, Elif. Variety, suppl. AFM 2002: Film Market Spotlight; Los Angeles (Feb 18-Feb 24, 2002): 10-12.
 * Behind the Camera: The Shorts Circuit. Moss, Marilyn. Hollywood Reporter; Hollywood Vol. 396, (Sep 15-Sep 17, 2006): 17
 * Reviews. Newman, Kim & McGreal, Jill. Sight & Sound. Jun92, Vol. 2 Issue 2, p56-57. 2p. 3 Black and White Photographs.
 * Spot-checked statements in current refs 2, 6, 7, 10, 13, 14, 19, 21, 24, and 29, and didn't spot major issues with plagiarism or verification issues.
 * Ref 2, Martin Scorsese said it was inspired by an Algernon Blackwood short story, Mel Brooks's 1963 short animated film The Critic, and French-Italian New Wave cinema—the source itself doesn't say that Scorsese directly said it was inspired by the latter two influences. You've combined two statements into something that's technically going further than the text.