Wikipedia:Peer review/William Hanna/archive1

William Hanna

 * A script has been used to generate a semi-automated review of the article for issues relating to grammar and house style; it can be found on the automated peer review page for August 2008.
 * A script has been used to generate a semi-automated review of the article for issues relating to grammar and house style; it can be found on the automated peer review page for August 2008.

This peer review discussion has been closed. I've listed this article for peer review because I really admire William Hanna and would like to get this to FA. Listing here as a prep. FYI, several have tried but no one has found a free image of him. I've been working this hard for three weeks so far. Any help appreciated.

Thanks, — Rlevse  •  Talk  • 01:42, 20 August 2008 (UTC)

Comments from
 * You said you wanted to know what to work on before taking to FAC, so I looked at the sourcing and referencing with that in mind. I reviewed the article's sources as I would at FAC.
 * What makes the following sources reliable?
 * http://www.findagrave.com/cgi-bin/fg.cgi?page=gr&GRid=6709
 * http://www.filmreference.com/Writers-and-Production-Artists-Gi-Ha/Hanna-William-and-Joseph-Barbera.html
 * Particular pet peeve, using a tertiary general encyclopedia to source information in a tertiary general encyclopedia. Try and replace the Britannica cites with something else?
 * Hope this helps. Please note that I don't watchlist Peer Reviews I've done. If you have a question about something, you'll have to drop a note on my talk page to get my attention. (My watchlist is already WAY too long, adding peer reviews would make things much worse.) 19:12, 22 August 2008 (UTC)

Yes, thank you, left you question at User_talk:Ealdgyth. — Rlevse  •  Talk  • 21:18, 23 August 2008 (UTC)
 * This is why findagrave isn't considered reliable HOw to submit graves. It's similar to a wiki. Ealdgyth - Talk 21:34, 23 August 2008 (UTC)
 * But in this case it is accurate. So what do we do in such a case? — Rlevse  •  Talk  • 21:41, 23 August 2008 (UTC)
 * But how long may it stay accurate, that's the issue. In this case, I'd leave it in with the book cite to back it up. Call it a courtesy link, if you will. Ealdgyth - Talk 21:44, 23 August 2008 (UTC)
 * OK, both in for now. Thanks for help. — Rlevse  •  Talk  • 21:48, 23 August 2008 (UTC)

Ruhrfisch comments: Very briefly, here are some suggestions for improvement. If you want more comments, please ask here. Ruhrfisch comments Hope this helps. If my comments are useful, please consider peer reviewing an article, especially one at Peer review/backlog (which is how I found this article). Yours, Ruhrfisch &gt;&lt;&gt; &deg; &deg; 02:21, 27 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Generally well done, these will mostly be nit picks. There are a few places where it seems to be missing something, for example Over the next 17 years Hanna and Barbera worked exclusively on Tom and Jerry,[20] directing more than [?] cartoon shorts, winning great popularity and a number of Oscars along the way.[19] Since they won seven Oscars, I would say that here too. fixed
 * I would also mention more of their MGM film career in the lead, particularly Tom and Jerry. Also the lead makes it sound as if T&J was their work after MGM cut their cartoon department, but Chuck Jones and others directed more T&J after H&B left MGM, so this seems misleading or downright wrong. fixed
 * I would identify the characters in the lead image in a caption fixed
 * I think a case could be made for including a fair use image of Tom and Jerry here. found a PD one on Commons
 * Odd word choice "live action" usually means something different than a cartoon in Tom and Jerry relied most on live action instead of dialog.[18] strike "live"? chg'd to motion, on the other one added link to article on films with real people and animation
 * I have never seen rp before - I found it distracting. Joseph Priestley House uses ref tags and may be a better system here respect the opinion but not a valid oppose at FAC, all systems have + and - 
 * Any chance for more critical commentary on Hanna and his work - I think his MGM film work was great, but agree that their TV animation left much to be desired.refs just seem to talk about what I said, how money caused a cut in animation quality
 * The article seems a bit hagiographic, which may be a problem at FAC. worked
 * I also think this needs a copyedit for polish - there are several places where it could be made smoother. worked

Hope this helps, Ruhrfisch &gt;&lt;&gt; &deg; &deg; 12:52, 27 August 2008 (UTC)
 * More comments from Ruhrfisch
 * I do up to three peer reviews a day and don't do copyedits - sorry. Try asking at WP:PRV for copyedit help.
 * I reread it and think the lead needs a lot more on his 27 year film career - see WP:WEIGHT worked
 * PR is suggestions only - I had never seen RP citations, if they pass FA and you like them, no problem (though I think they are ugly - sorry) see above
 * Hagiography - it is more sort of the general tone - sounds like he was a very nice guy, but here are a few ideas
 * he died of throat cancer, so my guess is he was a smoker - if so, include that "A life-long smoker, Hanna died of throat cancer in ..." no rs found for that, only 2 non RS
 * The article on Fred Quimby says the animators working under him were often at odds with him etc - can any of this sort of material be included?done
 * How did Hanna react to criticisms of the violence in Tom and Jerry, or of the compartivley low quality animation used in his TV shows? can't find anything
 * Many of the older Tom and Jerry cartoons feature an African-American maid character who is sometimes censored or revoiced in modern versions. Was there any criticism of this (many of the cartoons of the day had racial stereotypes in them)? Did he ever talk about it or respond to criticisms?can't see that he talked of it, this is discussed in the T&J article and since Hanna doesn't talk of it that I can find, seems off topic
 * The lead says Hanna-Barbera won seven Academy Awards and eight Emmy Awards. which is not quite true, as Hanna and Barbera won seven Academy Awards working for MGM (not as the corporate entity H-B) clarified
 * I would rename the Early career section "Film" and rename "Television career" just "Television" (WP:HEAD says not to repeat the name of a header in a subheader if possible, and he worked 27 years in film so "Early career" seems a bit of a misnomer fixed
 * I would move Ruff and Ready, a TV show, to the TV section fixed
 * Watch for needless repetition, one example (of several) from end of Early career and beginning of TV sections  This fizzled, and in 1957 he reteamed up with his old partner Joseph Barbera to produce their first series The Ruff & Reddy Show,[8] about a dog and cat that are pals,[6] under the company name H-B Enterprises, soon changed to Hanna-Barbera Productions.[27][28]   Television career In 1957 Hanna and Barbera struck out on their own and formed Hanna-Barbera Productions, first ... fixed
 * Some things seem to contradict themselves - were Tom and Jerry based on an earlier cartoon or were the a fox and dog that became a cartoon about a cat and mouse (my guess is the idea of fox and dog predated the first proto-Tom and Jerry cartoon, which led to the real T & J - if so, make this clearer) the ref itself isn't totally clear on how this unfolded, so I rm'd the fox/dog part
 * Or when did Quimby leave? For a brief period following Fred Quimby's retirement in 1956, they were also in charge of production.[17] but later we read that Hanna and Barbera were placed in charge of MGM's animation division in late 1955;[27] this was short-lived, as MGM closed the division in 1957.[28] so is it 55 or 56? ALso more needless repetition. fixed and clarified

Last thoughts - I read the Hanna-Barbera article and it says the company was founded as side-venture in 1944. It also mentions some other things that are not in this - my guess is you've read all of this, but it still might be useful (even though it is not very well sourced). Second, it seems to me that Hanna was first an artist, but there is relatively little on him as an artist. Who came up with the designs of the various characters? Who made the decision to have Tom and Jerry be mute (mostly)? That sort of thing. There is also not a lot of critical reception. I think there could also be more on him as a business man who headed a major anumation studio. I fear without this kind of material the article (which is quite good as it is) will seen as lacking comprehensiveness. Finally, I realize it is easy for me to say do this and do that and yet I do not know the sources or material available. It just seems to me that there must be more out there somewhere - I really hope this helps, Ruhrfisch &gt;&lt;&gt; &deg; &deg; 00:49, 29 August 2008 (UTC) working on it, good inputs, as for the 1944 side business, there' almost nothing on it, and yes those refs are not that good or detailed, there's also very little on him as a businessman, yes, very little on him as artist, that was more Barbera anyway and he probably did the designs, very little on critical reception or as businessman besides what I've mentioned.

NOTE: I found User:Limetolime at WP:PRV and he did a copyedit and said he felt it was ready for FAC. See my talk page. — Rlevse  •  Talk  • 19:08, 1 September 2008 (UTC)