Wikipedia:Peer review/Willie Mays/archive2

Willie Mays


During this article's recent nomination for FA status, it was suggested that work was needed on the prose before the article became featured. Therefore, I am hoping to get any prose issues fixed through this peer review. Sanfranciscogiants17 (talk) 13:26, 25 January 2021 (UTC)

Thanks, Sanfranciscogiants17 (talk) 13:26, 25 January 2021 (UTC)
 * WP:GOCE/REQ is often a good way to fix prose issues. (t &#183; c)  buidhe  17:02, 25 January 2021 (UTC)
 * Still struggling to catch up, I have added this at Template:FAC peer review sidebar. Please remember to add in the future, and also to remove when you close the peer review.  Sandy Georgia  (Talk)  21:01, 28 January 2021 (UTC)

Comments from Hog Farm
Lead
 * " and won the National League (NL) Most Valuable Player (MVP) after leading the" - Most Valuable Player (MVP) award?
 * Link home runs in the lead

Early life
 * You'll want to link Alabama at some point in there.

Professional baseball
 * "Promoted to the class AAA Minneapolis Millers" - Two things. One, link Class AAA, as that's not gonna be familiar for non-baseball people.  Also, should it be Class AAA, not class AAA?
 * Move the center fielder link up to where center field is first mentioned in the body in the rookie of the year section.
 * "relatively short left field (280 feet) and right field (258 feet) lines but the largest center field in baseball (483 feet)" - Use the convert template to also produce distances in meters.
 * I'd actually argue (though if others think it needs to be changed, I'd be happy to make the change) that this should just be listed in feet, since baseball fields are never measured in meters. There is not a ballpark in MLB (save perhaps Rogers Centre) where the distances are ever referred to as meters. It'd be like listing a player's salary in Canadian dollars, in my opinion. Like I said, though, if there's a consensus that this should be adjusted, I would make the change. Sanfranciscogiants17 (talk) 04:22, 31 January 2021 (UTC)
 * "relatively short left field (280 feet) and right field (258 feet) lines but the largest center field in baseball (483 feet)" - Would largest center field or deepest center field be the better description?
 * Deepest seems more consistent with the measurements we're using! Sanfranciscogiants17 (talk) 04:23, 31 January 2021 (UTC)
 * Link at bat at the first mention. FAC reviewers are often picky with linking specialist terms.
 * Was Mays ever stationed anywhere besides Fort Eustis?
 * His induction took place at Camp Kilmer, New Jersey, but Mays spent the rest of his time in the Army at Fort Eustis. Sanfranciscogiants17 (talk) 04:26, 31 January 2021 (UTC)
 * " Though his RBI (84) and batting" - RBI total, maybe?
 * " Mays singled with one out in the ninth, moved to second on an error, stole third, and scored the winning run on a single, all on plays close enough that he was required to slide" - He slid on the single?
 * "Each of his home runs travelled over 400 feet" - Keep in mind throughout that distances should also be converted into metric measurements.
 * Again, I don't think that distances should be mentioned in anything other than feet, as they are never referred to in any source in meters. Sanfranciscogiants17 (talk) 04:38, 31 January 2021 (UTC)


 * "Mays hit a home run 16th-inning home run off Spahn" - Don't need two instances of "home run"
 * "making Mays Mays the first African-American captain of an MLB team." - Two instances of Mays, only need one.
 * "Despite nursing an injured thigh muscle on September 7, Mays reached base in the 11th inning of a game against the Dodgers with two outs, then attempted to score from first base on a Frank Johnson single. On a close play, umpire Tony Venzon initially ruled him out, then changed the call when he saw that Roseboro had dropped the ball after Mays collided with him. San Francisco won 3–2." - Undue detail?
 * "Though centerfield remained his primary position in 1971, Mays played 48 games at first base" - Work this in before you mention that he saved multiple runs in a game at first base.

Player profile
 * Link putout here, rather than in the next section

Legacy
 * "In 1999, Mays placed second on The Sporting News's "List of the 100 Greatest Baseball Players", second only to Babe Ruth." - Can this be rephrased to avoid having "second" in there twice?
 * "Mays's 156.2 Wins above replacement (WAR)" - not sure if that capitalization on Wins above replacement is quite right
 * You'll want to find a way to gloss position players for the non-baseball readers and reviewers.
 * Link sabermetrics
 * For those appearances in TV shows, you'll want to find secondary sources for those. A number of reviewers (myself included) are of the opinion that in popular culture stuff show by sourced to secondary sources to demonstrate that it is truly a significant mention.

Personal life
 * "The couple adopted five-day-old Michael in 1959" - this sentence is a little confusing. We need a brief introduction as to who Michael is.

See also
 * See MOS:NOTSEEALSO, and check all of those see also links to make sure they're not linked in the article already. There also seem to be a bit too many of those, causing some bloat.  Considering trimming those down to the most relevant five or six.

References
 * We don't need the street address in the Freeman citation.
 * Don't need the access date for the Linge book.

External links
 * Remove the SABR bio external link, as it appears to be used as a reference.

Categories
 * Three of the categories currently appear to fail WP:CATV - New Rochelle, NY; Bessemer, AL; and Atherton, CA don't seem to be mentioned in the article text.

That's my peer review comments. I'm not as strict on prose as some reviewers are, though. Hog Farm Talk 19:08, 25 January 2021 (UTC)

Comments by Wehwalt

 * I might say something in the lede about Mays's post-1973 career.
 * "Negro team". This perhaps should be either piped to an appropriate article or rephrased due to the risk of people possibly thinking you are using an outmoded racial term.
 * That's probably what the source called it, but since it wasn't the Negro Leagues (which are still referred to as such today), I rephrased it. Sanfranciscogiants17 (talk) 04:30, 31 January 2021 (UTC)
 * I might relegate much of the discussion about the two girls who helped raise him to a footnote.
 * I might give a little more detail on the Giants' 1951 comeback, say for example they how far behind they were on such and such a date.
 * "In Game 1, Mays, Hank Thompson, and Monte Irvin comprised the first all-African-American outfield in major league history." I assume this means the first time for this in the World Series? Because I assume they played outfield together at some point in the regular season.
 * No, Hirsch says it was the first time ever. Thompson only played third base during the regular season. Sanfranciscogiants17 (talk) 04:32, 31 January 2021 (UTC)
 * Did Mays get any nearer the front than Fort Eustis? Was the cushy treatment afforded Mays at all controversial? I recall reading that when Billy Martin was inducted, he got less cushy duty because of such complaints but I don't recall Mays being mentioned.
 * Fort Eustis was the only place he served. Mays's cushy treatment was the subject of a Congressional Committee investigation; I put that information back into the article. Sanfranciscogiants17 (talk) 04:28, 31 January 2021 (UTC)
 * I might mention an estimate of how far from home plate Mays was in The Catch.
 * "Rigney wanted Mays to challenge Babe Ruth's single-season home run record in 1958; " It might be fruitful to remind the reader what the record was.
 * In the legacy section, which I've done a rename of (feel free to revert if you don't like it), it might be noted that Mays was often compared with Mantle and Snider during the glory days of New York baseball in the 1950s as to who was the best center fielder in the city. There are lots of sources (even a book) on this, for example here. It's possible that this and other material such as the Harlem anecdote could be split out into a "cultural effect" section, much as was done with the Ruth article. Mays was, after all, one of the first African-American players to enjoy really broad popularity, in part I suspect due to his youth and personality, and there might be something to be said about that. You could also include in such a section the discussion of Mays not speaking out on racial matters.
 * That's pretty much it. Looks like good work.--Wehwalt (talk) 19:23, 29 January 2021 (UTC)

Thanks to those who have helped with this review. I've addressed all the comments listed so far, but if anyone has any more, I am eager to respond! Still hoping to get this to featured status! Sanfranciscogiants17 (talk) 00:50, 9 February 2021 (UTC)
 * Drive by comment: some sections such as "Most Valuable Player, World Series champion (1954–1957)" and "Move to San Francisco, 1962 pennant race (1958–1962)" are awfully long (and these titles look like they cover two separate topics). Trying to split sections every 3–4 paragraphs is ideal for readability, particularly for readers on mobile devices. Also, "Following the death of Tommy Lasorda on January 7, 2021, Mays became the oldest living Hall of Famer." is unsourced and looks like trivia. (t &#183; c)  buidhe  06:53, 19 February 2021 (UTC)

Comments from SandyGeorgia
Please review my edits (they generally reflect things that you should check throughout). The prose is competent, but it could be crisper. I suggest that your best bet at a successful FAC is to get WP:GOCE on board for a run-through. Good luck! Sandy Georgia (Talk)  01:36, 16 March 2021 (UTC)
 * You can install User:Evad37/duplinks-alt to check for duplicate links (like Babe Ruth :)