Wikipedia:Peer review/Youngstown Ohio Works/archive2

Youngstown Ohio Works
This article on an early 20th-century baseball club is well researched and loaded with references. It's close to meeting GA standards, and I hope to nominate an expanded version for FA status. For now, I'd appreciate any suggestions on ways to improve it. Thank you,-- twelsht (talk) 17:02, 7 December 2007 (UTC)
 * ✅ Maybe link baseball and minor league baseball in lead section? Not sure
 * ✅ I'm not sure whether the facts introduced in the first and second sentences should be reversed; which one is considered most important or best known?
 * ✅ The team is best known for winning the premier championship of the Ohio–Pennsylvania League in 1905,[1] and for launching the professional career of pitcher Roy Castleton a year later.[2] - add "for."
 * ✅ The ball club proved a formidable regional competitor and won the 1906 league championship before its dissolution in 1907.[3] - it might be helpful to add whether the team dissolved prior to 1907's season, or in the middle of the season. At least it gives you a few extra words in the lede...
 * ✅ In 1905, the club joined the Class C Division Ohio-Pennsylvania League, - I want to add a comma or some other punctuation there somewhere, it's too much info to parse too close together.
 * ✅ You may want to add how many teams were in the original season of the league (I counted 21), as the reduction to 8 teams is important in the next section.
 * Some teams left, and others joined; I hope the revised passage makes sense.--twelsht (talk) 21:59, 9 December 2007 (UTC)


 * ✅ Despite this uncertainty over the club's record, its championship status was apparent, and the team became popularly known as "the Champs".[11] - I'm not sure "apparent" is the correct word here. I think you mean "not in dispute" or "uncontroversial".
 * ✅ The "Youngstown Champs" allusion at the end of the Formation section ends in a cliffhanger. Was there a team called "Youngstown Champs" in 1907, or was that same popular nickname given to another team then? (If the answer is in the prose, it was too tenuous and I didn't catch it.)
 * The Ohio Works team was popularly known as the "Youngstown Champs", a name that appears in contemporaneous newspaper articles. But the name "Champs" became officially associated with the team that replaced the Ohio Works. I hope the revised passage conveys this rather confusing point. I was tempted to leave out this detail but thought it would be helpful to researchers. --twelsht (talk) 21:59, 9 December 2007 (UTC)


 * ✅ Um, 14 teams left the league, and there were only 8 left... but the first season only had 21? Fact-check needed here...
 * ✅ Early in the season, as the Ohio Works team prepared for a second game with the Zanesville (Ohio) Moguls... - I'd just remove the "(Ohio)" part, and bypass the redirect on the Zanesville link by linking to Zanesville, Ohio.
 * I removed the Zanesville link because the city was linked in an earlier section.--twelsht (talk) 21:59, 9 December 2007 (UTC)


 * ✅ "...We have no .350 batters on the club, but any man on it is liable to step in and break up a game".[11] - you may want to include a link to batting average there somewhere. While I know what you are talking about, keep in mind that not everybody knows baseball.
 * ✅ An article published in the The Youngstown Daily Vindicator in October 1906 stated that the local team ended the season with its third consecutive state pennant in hand.[14] - so they won in 1904? Why wasn't this mentioned earlier?
 * Winning the league championship and winning the state pennant were separate acomplishments, but this wasn't clearly indicated. I added language to make this point and restructured the paragraph. The league championship was much more important, so I referred to the state pennant at the end of the paragraph.--twelsht (talk) 21:59, 9 December 2007 (UTC)


 * ✅ On August 17, 1906, Castleton gained national recognition when he pitched a perfect game against rival Akron... - link perfect game for football people (*ducks*)
 * ✅ The Youngstown team closed the season with an 84–53 record and won its second consecutive league championship.[3]'' - ??? Didn't you say they won their third immediately above? Or is there something more to this?
 * Hopefully, the revised passage mentioned above will prevent any confusion on this point.--twelsht (talk) 21:59, 9 December 2007 (UTC)


 * ✅ Okay, the dissolution section answers the question about the official Youngstown Champs team that I posed above. But the section follows the teams that played in Youngstown after the Works left the town. It doesn't follow the Works themselves into Zanesville and beyond, as one would expect.
 * Following this recommendation proved something of a challenge. I came across very little information on the Zanesville team, though enough to conclude that their performance was lackluster. I found more information on the Ohio Works' former manager, who eventually signed Stan Coveleski and Sam Jones to their first professional contracts. As you recommended, I removed extraneous information on teams that played in Youngstown after the Ohio Works' departure. I retained some material on the Youngstown Champs that seemed to shed light on the circumstances surrounding the Ohio Works' dissolution. Thanks, again, for the detailed recommendations! Please let me know if you have any further recommendations!--twelsht (talk) 21:59, 9 December 2007 (UTC)

Tito xd (?!? - cool stuff) 06:19, 9 December 2007 (UTC)
 * Wow. That was fast. :) The article is certainly impressive. I'd ship it straight to WP:FAC. Tito xd (?!? - cool stuff) 05:58, 10 December 2007 (UTC)

Review from Jayron32
Responding to a request on my page. Not sure what else to say on this one. I am looking for ways to critique it, but it looks FANTASTIC as it is. This is a GA in flying colors. If you want my honest opinion, skip the GA and head straight to FA. There is little benefit (other than an easy Green Plus) that you would get from a GA review. This would pass GA in a heartbeat, and I can't see where a GA review would give you much feedback for improvement, if only because it is so good. And I say that myself as a frequent GA reviewer. This is well past GA standards already. If you are heading for an FA, this looks also quite close, if not exceeding, standards as it is. There are a few issues with flowery language (the one on "Youngstown's rich history" needs a rewrite, for example) but after a quick copyedit to catch those problems, this should be FA ready. It is scrupulously referenced, and it is fairly well written (except for as I note above). It seems quite comprehensive, given the team existed for less than 3 full seasons, and I see no obvious stability or neutrality issues. Well done! --Jayron32| talk | contribs 05:41, 10 December 2007 (UTC)
 * Language problems seem largely fixed. Well done.  Let me know when this goes to FAC.  I plan to give it my full support! --Jayron32| talk | contribs  16:37, 10 December 2007 (UTC)