Wikipedia:Picture peer review/Manzanar Flag

Manzanar Flag
Requesting peer review for this photo by Dorothea Lange. This is a famous historical photo of the Manzanar concentration camp (now the Manzanar National Historic Site) taken on a windy day in July, 1942.

The caption used is the original caption that accompanied the photo.

I'm only a novice photographer, at best, but this photo has considerable historical significance and is pretty well-known. -- Gmatsuda 23:15, 20 September 2007 (UTC) Comments:
 * Nominated by: Gmatsuda
 * Sorry, this does absolutely nothing for me. I find nothing in it to convey the sense of what may have happened at this place, or to strike any emotion. What's more the photo appears to have a nasty tilt (unless this place was built on a hill - look at the building in the centre for example), and I see nothing else striking in composition or quality (the clouds appear blown around the edges for example). Some people may support for 'historical significance', but not sure a lot would. I may be being too harsh - perhaps there's something I'm missing. --jjron 06:26, 21 September 2007 (UTC)


 * No offense intended, but wow. You have to be quite desensitized, or not know much about the history of these camps to not get any emotional feel from this photo. But to be quite frank, whether or not this photo reaches FP status is not all that important. Outside of Wikipedia (in context, of course) and in the article it's used in, it has tremendous impact. -- Gmatsuda 06:38, 21 September 2007 (UTC)


 * You're right, I don't know much about these camps. But that was part of my point - as someone that doesn't know much about these camps in the US, this is not conveying any of the significance or presumed horror of them to me. Remember, I'm just one opinion - for others this may tear at their heartstrings, and for that reason you may feel it's worth nominating. --jjron 06:49, 21 September 2007 (UTC)


 * Respectfully, perhaps reading the article the photo is used in (and others that are linked to it) might help. :-) -- Gmatsuda 06:51, 21 September 2007 (UTC)


 * Sure. I don't want an argument over it, I was just offering an opinion. It could well be worth nominating. In fact now you've got me rather interested to see what others would think about it. --jjron 07:52, 21 September 2007 (UTC)


 * I'm afraid that I have to agree with jjron. What is this photograph trying to convey? Maybe horrible things did happen here, but this does not convey what exactly the emotion is that I am supposed to be feeling. For all I know, this could be anywhere today, yesterday, 65 years ago or whenever. thegreen J      Are you green?  21:10, 21 September 2007 (UTC)
 * I've been to the new Manzinar visitor's center, and I have to say that this historic image doesn't do much for me, either. I'm guessing that the white stuff in the background is a dust storm, which can be terrible to live or walk or be in, but it honestly looks like it could be cool, pleasant mist.  The people appear to be walking around at leisure, the buildings look fairly pleasantly spaced apart.  Except for the woman, it looks it could as easily be a set of dorms for WWII soilders, not a hot and dry wasteland to hold citizens of a particular ethnic group.  Jiron also has a good point about the tilt; were this a modern image, we'd just tilt it back, but since it's just as much art as illustration and is a period image, the tilt just makes it look bad and probably shouldn't be fixed.  Enuja  (talk) 01:01, 25 September 2007 (UTC)

Seconder:
 * I think this is an amazing photo. I really don't understand the other users comments on a lack of emotion- I think that this picture conveys the tragic events at Japanese camps. The American flag in the middle really does it for me. I find it strikingly similar to [], taken in Birkenau concentration camp. In order to improve for FPC, I would recommend a tilt-correct and the removal of the white border.Rwhealey 03:18, 25 September 2007 (UTC)
 * As per discussion raised above I think this is worth nominating to get a better range of input. I will do so in a day or two if no one else does so first. I will nominate as nominated here. --jjron 08:07, 26 September 2007 (UTC)


 * If the sole purpose is to get more feedback, I don't know if it's worth it, especially if the chances of it being promoted aren't good. Since this is an historical photo, I don't think modifying it is appropriate, so I don't think there is anythinig that can be done to improve it so it can pass. -- Gmatsuda 03:11, 27 September 2007 (UTC)
 * The point being that there's varying opinions here, so putting it on FPC opens it to a larger audience, which may swing either way. Nonetheless, it's 'your' photo, so I will leave the option to nominate up to you. --jjron 07:51, 27 September 2007 (UTC)


 * I have no experience with the FPC process. What do you think its chances of being promoted are? -- Gmatsuda 08:26, 27 September 2007 (UTC)


 * Well I wasn't particularly taken with it originally, so my opinion's probably a bit biased. If it was a contemporary image I'd say no chance, but people react to these sort of 'historic' and 'emotional' images in different ways. My gut feeling is that it wouldn't get promoted even allowing for that, but there's only one way to find out for sure. (And what have you lost if it's not promoted?). --jjron 06:32, 28 September 2007 (UTC)


 * I'll leave it to you...I don't have a good feeling about it. -- Gmatsuda 04:02, 29 September 2007 (UTC)

