Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2007 September 24

PanoTools → Panorama Tools
The result of the debate was speedy keep per WP:SNOW; no arguments for deletion have actually been given, no one other than the nominator argues in favour of deleting the redirect.  Melsaran  (talk) 16:42, 26 September 2007 (UTC)

procedural nomination This was nominated via AFD at Articles for deletion/PanoTools by John Spikowski. I have closed the AFD and am moving it here as it is a redirect. -- JLaTondre 01:16, 24 September 2007 (UTC)

The following is copied from the AFD debate:


 * – (View AfD) (View log)

PanoTools is a copyrighted name of a panorama web portal and is being used as a slang term for Panorama Tools John Spikowski 21:58, 23 September 2007 (UTC)


 * Speedy Keep - article properly redirected to Panorama Tools before a deletion template was placed. I would recommend administrators check the Talk:PanoTools and Talk:Panorama Tools page for past discussions on this topic. John has a major conflict of interest problem with the use of this abbreviated name very commonly used for this software. The official Source Forge developers of the official project also commonly refer to the software as PanoTools. Roguegeek (talk) 22:07, 23 September 2007 (UTC)
 * The author has never authorized a name change to PanoTools, PT or any other shortcut. The only opposing group to removing the reference is a splinter group that assumed the idenitiy of the PanoTools group, taking it's resources and member base. Again, undisputed facts. John Spikowski 22:12, 23 September 2007 (UTC)
 * The continuing discussion is simply highlighting the John's conflict of interest. Roguegeek (talk) 22:19, 23 September 2007 (UTC)
 * How is defending the misuse of the PanoTools name and identity that belongs to the group I manage a conflict of interest? Can you expand on what your calling a conflict of interest? John Spikowski 22:34, 23 September 2007 (UTC)


 * Keep The name is used since at least 2000 for Panorama Tools. Earlier references, , , , and from the web archive  --Wuz 22:31, 23 September 2007 (UTC)
 * Thomas, how many names, shortcuts, etc. does a software need. Before you continue with your crusade, why don't you ask Helmut if he would rather have the name of his software use properly? (Panorama Tools) John Spikowski 22:36, 23 September 2007 (UTC)


 * Keep - AfD nominator has personal interest, is biased and makes up reasons for deletion without a proof (I really doubt he is able to register a copyright). He has a history of AfDs with other panorama related articles (hugin, PTgui). The term panotools is widely used and is connected to the term Panorama Tools. No copyrights exist for these terms. The hugin/panotools projects are a participant of the 2007 Google Summer of Code. --Einemnet 22:48, 23 September 2007 (UTC)
 * User:Einemnet and User:Wuz manage the PanoTools Next Generation group that has a history of policy violations with Yahoo Groups and the use of the orignal PanoTools GNU FDL base wiki. They have tried to bully the efforts here on the Wikipedia and in the community by harassing vendors that wish to sponsor the PanoTools site. How about Thomas's last stunt of having all the other vendor references removed. John Spikowski 23:00, 23 September 2007 (UTC)
 * I consider your comment as personal accusations. Keep a civil tone, please.--Einemnet 23:29, 23 September 2007 (UTC)
 * Just stating facts. If your feelings are hurt, too bad. You should have thought about that when you where dragging my name through the mud. John Spikowski 23:34, 23 September 2007 (UTC)
 * "Facts" are no facts without proof. Stop your accusations, again. That only falls back on your own reputation. --Einemnet 23:41, 23 September 2007 (UTC)
 * Visit you PanoTools-List archives. Do you need more proof? I didn't take another groups resources like you did. I didn't assume another groups identity like you did. Give it up Carl, you guys are nothing more then common bandits that are destroying the panorama community with your bitterness and inability to let the past go. John Spikowski 23:53, 23 September 2007 (UTC)

RFD debate should continue below. Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, -- JLaTondre 01:16, 24 September 2007 (UTC)


 * Keep - The term PanoTools is used by Helmut Dersch since at least 2001, see mirror. I don't see a hint on panotools.info that the owner of that domain (John, the RFD nominator) keeps a valid copyright for the term PanoTools (he will definitely have problems proving to be copyright owner for the whole site content). Even if he had it was no reason to delete the redirect, for a redirect is needed to point to an article from a well known term, see Wp:redirect. As an example Siemens redirects properly to Siemens AG. --Einemnet 07:24, 24 September 2007 (UTC)
 * One recommendation per person please. The purpose of copying the AFD discussion here was so that those opinions could be factored into the closing of this one. You may add addition comments, but not another recommendation. Thanks. -- JLaTondre 13:26, 24 September 2007 (UTC)


 * The name is the most commonly used abbreviation for the Panorama Tools software. Nominator of this report has too much personally and professionally invested in the subject with which seems to be ulterior motives for even editing on Wikipedia. This issue goes well beyond any RfD report. Roguegeek (talk) 08:17, 24 September 2007 (UTC)
 * Same as above. -- JLaTondre 13:26, 24 September 2007 (UTC)

'The above is preserved as the archive of an RfD nomination. Please do not modify it.'
 * Are you three guys going to fill the page with votes? (wiki bullies at it again) Give someone else non-PanoTools related a chance to review the facts. John Spikowski 09:27, 24 September 2007 (UTC)
 * Coneslayer pointed this out on the Panorama Tools discussion page, but I thought it was important enough to reiterate here. Names are not subject to copyright protection and any claim that a name is "copyrighted" is specious. Roguegeek (talk) 17:06, 24 September 2007 (UTC)
 * Keep if this is a commonly used name. If it's also the name of something else notable can be made into a disambig page (without coming here), and any reg-trademarks can be noted and referenced. Rich Farmbrough, 15:39 25 September 2007 (GMT).