Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2008 February 25

February 25
This is a list of redirects that have been proposed for deletion on February 25, 2008

Rock band → Rock Band (video game)
The result of the debate was Rock band targeted to Musical ensemble and Rock Band targeted to Rock Band (video game). Appropriate hat notes added to each targeted article. Redirects protected against continued edit waring. -- JLaTondre (talk) 03:25, 4 March 2008 (UTC) Tell me how many people looking for rock band would expect that video game? I'd say more people would be expecting information ABOUT rock bands. TheBlazikenMaster (talk) 18:01, 25 February 2008 (UTC)
 * Revert  to the previous redirect to Rock music, that was result of a merge and also respects tons of incoming links. Not to delete in any case, but should be tagged anyways. --Tikiwont (talk) 20:36, 25 February 2008 (UTC)
 * Why can't it just be a disambiguation? I don't think someone would type in "rock band" looking for generic information, because i don't think thats a realistic train of thought. I think it'd be equally or more likely that they were looking for this game. The term is almost antiquated, it'd be like someone looking up movies with the term "moving picture", its just not how people think. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 142.106.63.213 (talk) 21:15, 25 February 2008 (UTC)
 * There can be a dab note on the rock music article. I was looking for music-related information while searching for it, and I honestly think that term is more well known than the game. TheBlazikenMaster (talk) 21:45, 25 February 2008 (UTC)
 * In Wikipedia it is a rather common term as indicted by the huge amount of links Special:Whatlinkshere/Rock_band. There simply are a lot of bands and one recent video game which of course takes its name form the term 'Rock band', so it can't be that antiquated. Although currently no separate article, 'rock band' is IMO clearly the main topic and the video game is a derivate. There is even a hat note at Rock music giving the video game maybe even more that its due prominence. --Tikiwont (talk) 09:38, 26 February 2008 (UTC)


 * Disambiguate the page to prevent any need for further discussion or conflict as to what page it should redirect to. Then make Rock Band redirect to the disambig page, Rock band. Lightsup55 ( T | C ) 22:43, 25 February 2008 (UTC)
 * I still disagree, I don't think two entries are big enough to have it a dabpage. TheBlazikenMaster (talk) 23:00, 25 February 2008 (UTC)
 * Well, we're having a discussion now so we should not disambiguate preemptively, but only if there is consensus that it is actually the best solution; personally I am opposed per above.--Tikiwont (talk) 09:38, 26 February 2008 (UTC)
 * Hat note is enough. There are only two, one hat note can lead to the other term. Do you have any idea how many dab pages with few entries are merged? TheBlazikenMaster (talk) 18:45, 26 February 2008 (UTC)


 * Better suggestion: To prevent this discussion from coming up again in few weeks, this is my suggestion. It is one thing to search for stuff on the interent and not need to worry about capitalization to names of cities, towns, people's names, titles of video games, books, albums, etc. when using an internet search engine (i.e. Google Search), but on Wikipedia, users should capitalize those things if that is what they are looking for.

Lightsup55 ( T | C ) 20:01, 26 February 2008 (UTC)


 * I personally think this is a great idea, in fact my vote is Do what Lightsup55 suggested. oh and the discussion heading is clearly unnecessary as this whole page IS a discussion. TheBlazikenMaster (talk) 20:05, 26 February 2008 (UTC)

For the record, I just looked up "rock band" looking for info about the video game, that's how I found this discussion. There definitely needs to be some link to allow people looking up "rock band" to find the video game. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 128.40.26.83 (talk) 17:21, 27 February 2008 (UTC)
 * Well, I made this discussion because I couldn't help to notice that the redirect is continuously being changed from rock band and the video game. Believe me, unregistered user, we need this discussion to stop the edit war once and for all. TheBlazikenMaster (talk) 16:38, 28 February 2008 (UTC)


 * Support of Lightsup55's suggestion using hatnotes. --M ASEM 21:02, 27 February 2008 (UTC)


 * Great idea, Lightsup55. faithless   (speak)  00:14, 29 February 2008 (UTC)


 * Oppose - I'm sorry, the answer we were looking for was redirect to Musical ensemble, with a hatnote above the section that says "Rock band redirects here. For the article about the video game, see Rock Band (video game). Rock Band should also redirect there, but if it's directed to the video game, then Rock Band (video game) should have a similar hatnote for to link back, per Naming conventions (capitalization) &mdash;Torc.  ( Talk.  ) 08:26, 29 February 2008 (UTC)


 * It should be pretty clear that per WP:MERGE, if Rock band is being redirected anywhere it must be to Rock music since that is where the content was merged to, and that content needs to remain attributable. I oppose redirecting anywhere else. Though I would support a dab page as a compromise. -- ÐeadΣyeДrrow (Talk | Contribs) 18:01, 29 February 2008 (UTC)
 * comment - That's just a minor content issue, and the content can be merged (if it doesn't already exist in a better form) to Musical ensemble, where it makes the most sense. There's no rule that says we can't change our minds.  &mdash;Torc.  ( Talk.  ) 21:52, 29 February 2008 (UTC)


 * Support Torc's suggestion - Musical ensemble is clearly where this should be redirecting to, concerns about previous merges notwithstanding. I'd suggest pointing Rock group in the same direction.  Mi re ma re  18:53, 29 February 2008 (UTC)
 * Disamb. This should not be a redirect, it should be a disamb, such as: "Rock band can refer to: *Rock Band (video game), *A band that performs Rock music. Kingturtle (talk) 19:48, 29 February 2008 (UTC)
 * Comment. The issue boils down to this: what is a reader looking for when they type in "rock band." It could be either the music genre or the video game. We need to make an allowance for the many readers who won't necessarily know the subtle difference between Rock band and Rock Band.Kingturtle (talk) 22:00, 29 February 2008 (UTC)
 * reply - Per WP:DAB and WP:MOSDAB, a disambiguation link is preferred over a disambiguation page when there's only two entries. &mdash;Torc.  ( Talk. ) 22:25, 29 February 2008 (UTC)
 * touche :) Kingturtle (talk) 22:26, 29 February 2008 (UTC)


 * Support Lightsup55s disamb suggestion.Kcurley (talk) 21:04, 29 February 2008 (UTC)
 * My original idea that I took back? Lightsup55 ( T | C ) 14:45, 1 March 2008 (UTC)


 * Disamb. "Rock band" is a term that is most often used to refer to a band that plays rock music. But the title Rock Band (capitalized) refers to a video game. There is currently a disambig page at "Rock Band". The simple solution is to make Rock band the disambig with a link to rock music and a link to the game, and edit the Rock Band page to redirect to Rock band (seeing as the uncapitalized term referring to a band is, I think, the most widely used of the two). Pele Merengue (talk) 21:38, 29 February 2008 (UTC)


 * Comment Dudes, I got a brilliant idea, what if I watch the two redirect after the discussion is over and make sure that nobody changes the redirect ever again after this is over? TheBlazikenMaster (talk) 23:29, 29 February 2008 (UTC)


 * Torc's suggestion It just seems like common sense to me that anyone searching for 'rock band' wants to see 'Musical ensemble'. The Squicks (talk) 06:40, 1 March 2008 (UTC)


 * Lightsup55 solution (it makes sense and it's standard for these kinds of conundrums.) Grand  master  ka  09:35, 1 March 2008 (UTC)


 * Comment Um, like, what are we voting on man? We need to disambiguate this discussion, it's like, screwing with my head. RomaC (talk) 13:49, 2 March 2008 (UTC)
 * Both Rock band & Rock Band currently redirect to another article, but are constantly being changed back and forth as to what they redirect to. The question here is what they should they redirect to. Should they redirect to Rock music, Musical ensemble, or Rock Band (video game)? The confusion here is that a "rock band" is a band (musical ensemble) that plays rock music, however, "Rock Band" (with a capital "B") is also the name of a video game. That is what this discussion is all about. Hope that helps. Lightsup55 ( T | C ) 18:19, 2 March 2008 (UTC)

How about we have it redirect to a disambugation page? We could add links to Musical ensemble and Rock Band (video game) and rock music? 99.230.152.143 (talk) 20:22, 2 March 2008 (UTC)
 * Like Rock band (disambiguation) (with the links to Musical ensemble and Rock Band (video game) and rock music), then have both Rock band and Rock Band redirect to Rock band (disambiguation)? Lightsup55 ( T | C ) 23:44, 2 March 2008 (UTC)
 * No, I don't like that idea at all. Rock Band can redirect to the video game, and rock band can redirect to Musical ensemble#Rock and pop bands, it can be like this: "Rock band redirects here, for the video game see Rock Band (video game), for general information about the category see Rock music", the disambiguation page will be merged eventually, so there is no point in making one. TheBlazikenMaster (talk) 00:20, 3 March 2008 (UTC)

Prior to the discussions about merging Rock band with Rock music, I had no idea that a video game by the name of "Rock Band" even existed. I was (and still am) very much against that merger, as it only addresses half the description. (It would be like linking (or redirecting) Christmas tree to Christmas.) I was even more against the idea of redirecting the well established (and far more notable) term "Rock band" to some goofy little video game... which is really nothing more than a classic case of hijacking.

I'm not concerned about what people type into the search-field (search is a hit-or-miss function anyway). What I am concerned about, is the 2000+ existing articles on Wikipedia that already link to Rock band assuming there's an article pertaining to "Rock music ensemble(s)" at the other end. When moving or renaming an article, the Wiki instructions clearly state that the person conducting this action is responsible for making sure that all links point to what they're supposed to... which is clearly something the merging-party neglected to take care of. (Please note, that both Rock bands (plural form) and Bar band redirect to Rock band as well.)

By definition, Rock band and Rock group mean the same thing, and really should point to the same article... Musical ensemble appears to be the most logical choice of all. With that taken care of, give Rock Band (proper product name) to the video game with a full round of hatnotes, and all should be well.

My second choice would be to simply delete Rock band and lock the name-space so it can't be recreated. This would at least force red links, and bring attention to regular editors of those 2000+ articles that something needs to be repaired. I think red-links would be better than redirecting music buffs to an article about a video game in error. WikHead (talk) 09:04, 3 March 2008 (UTC)
 * I like the idea, but I believe you're too late. There can't be much left of this discussion now. TheBlazikenMaster (talk) 14:37, 3 March 2008 (UTC)
 * The discussion could be relisted. It seems people weren't aware of the existence of Musical ensemble until well into the discussion.  &mdash;Torc.  ( Talk.  ) 19:22, 3 March 2008 (UTC)

'The above is preserved as the archive of a RfD nomination. Please do not modify it.'
 * Comment: This discussion should probably be relisted. I had no idea that Musical ensemble existed until I started reading here. It's clear that over 90% of the 2000+ article links saying "rock band" were intended to go to that. The Squicks (talk) 02:56, 4 March 2008 (UTC)