Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2011 October 4

October 4
This is a list of redirects that have been proposed for deletion or other action on October 4, 2011




 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more redirects. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the redirect's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was speedy close, retracted as procedurally unnecessary. Fut.Perf. ☼ 13:14, 5 October 2011 (UTC)

Albania (Balkans)

 * → Albania (links to redirect • [ history] • )     [ Closure: [ keep]/[ delete] ]

Proposed action

I propose to delete redirect and to expand it into an Albania (Balkans) which can be expanded into an article like it was before redirecting

Rationale

There is an article Albania (placename) which subject are three different geographical regions with name Albania:
 * 1) Caucasian Albania
 * 2) Albania (Balkans)
 * 3) Albania (Scotland)

All above mentioned regions have their own articles except Albania (Balkans) which was redirected to article about Republic of Albania.

The rationale for deleting the redirect and creating separate article for Balkan region of Albania can be summarized like:
 * 1) Albania (Balkan region) is notable topic which has significant coverage of reliable and neutral sources and according to Notability deserves its own article.
 * 2) what is known as region of Albania changed over the time. Sometimes it included much bigger or much smaller territory than what is today known as region of Albania
 * 3) A territory of the state which name was Albania was sometimes much bigger or smaller than region Albania

I think that having redirect over Albania (Balkans) can:
 * 1) make it unreasonably difficult for users to locate similarly named articles via the search engine
 * 2) cause confusion when in fact
 * 3) redirect could plausibly be expanded into an article.

Antidiskriminator (talk) 07:57, 4 October 2011 (UTC)


 * Keep (as redirect). Planned article is not a useful topic. There is no more reason to split up the topic of Albania into a "state" article and a "geographical region" article than there is for Germany, Italy, Ukraine, India, Syria, Egypt or Greece, all of which were equally fluctuating concepts before the modern nation states were founded. But in any case, technically, deletion of the redirect would not be necessary even if such a new article should find consensus. It should simply be overwritten with the old page history preserved. Fut.Perf. ☼ 08:06, 4 October 2011 (UTC)
 * The nature of Wikipedia means that you cannot make a convincing argument based solely on what other articles do or do not exist.
 * I am very surprised to see that you forgot to mention many other "geographical regions" with the same name as some "states", like:
 * Republic of Macedonia and Macedonia (region)
 * Kosovo and Republic of Kosovo
 * Bahrain and Bahrain (historical region)...
 * --Antidiskriminator (talk) 10:31, 4 October 2011 (UTC)
 * This discussion doesn't belong here. (Incidentally, none of these three examples provides a reasonable motivation for why we'd need to do anything like that with Albania either, but that's a matter for the talk page.) You missed the crucial part of my statement: If we were to end up with a decision to revive the article, that would only be yet another argument against deleting the current page. You don't need this deletion to achieve what you want. Fut.Perf. ☼ 10:44, 4 October 2011 (UTC)
 * Let me remind you that it was you who started using examples.
 * Let me remind you that I did try to resolve this issue on "the talk page" discussion but you ignored it despite my note.--Antidiskriminator (talk) 11:01, 4 October 2011 (UTC)
 * You still didn't get the point. You don't need this redirect deleted in order to revive the article. Fut.Perf. ☼ 11:05, 4 October 2011 (UTC)
 * I am very sorry for not getting the point. What do you propose me to do?--Antidiskriminator (talk) 11:16, 4 October 2011 (UTC)
 * If you want to revive the article, revive the article. (But I'll oppose you in doing so, and will revert you.) Fut.Perf. ☼ 11:17, 4 October 2011 (UTC)
 * Despite it meets all Notability propositions? --Antidiskriminator (talk) 11:22, 4 October 2011 (UTC)


 * Delete - The topic of the article is notable and having redirect over Albania (Balkans) can:
 * 1) make it unreasonably difficult for users to locate similarly named articles via the search engine
 * 2) cause confusion when in fact
 * 3) redirect could plausibly be expanded into an article. --Antidiskriminator (talk) 11:28, 4 October 2011 (UTC)
 * Keep it's roughly the same topic and perceptions about Albania's geography can be covered on Geography of Albania.-- — ZjarriRrethues — talk 20:12, 4 October 2011 (UTC)
 * "Roughly the same topic" is in another words in fact different topic. Both definition of "geographical region" and territory of state Albania has changed over time. The "geographical region" during its history comprised the territory which was completely or almost completely different (much smaller or much bigger) than state Albania (when it existed).
 * Is it true that "Epirus is a geographical and historical region in southeastern Europe, shared between Greece and Albania"? --Antidiskriminator (talk) 21:53, 4 October 2011 (UTC)


 * Speedy close as unnecessary - deletion is unnecessary for what the nominator wishes to do. His article was boldly redirected and that redirect can be undone as an editorial action at any time. If the redirecting editor objects then he can take it to the talk page or to AFD as he judges appropriate. Bridgeplayer (talk) 00:09, 5 October 2011 (UTC)
 * Thank you for your comment. Since editor who boldly redirected the article started to participate in the discussion I will take your advice and take it to the talk page to try to resolve this issue trough WP:DR process.
 * Conclusion: I agree to speedy close this discussion because I will try to resolve this issue trough WP:DR process.--Antidiskriminator (talk) 06:26, 5 October 2011 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page.