Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2011 October 5

October 5
This is a list of redirects that have been proposed for deletion or other action on October 5, 2011

Regional destinations



 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more redirects. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the redirect's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was Keep. TexasAndroid (talk) 14:33, 14 October 2011 (UTC)


 * → Roads in the United Kingdom (links to redirect • [ history] • )     [ Closure: [ keep]/[ delete] ]
 * → Roads in the United Kingdom (links to redirect • [ history] • )     [ Closure: [ keep]/[ delete] ]
 * → Roads in the United Kingdom (links to redirect • [ history] • )     [ Closure: [ keep]/[ delete] ]
 * → Roads in the United Kingdom (links to redirect • [ history] • )     [ Closure: [ keep]/[ delete] ]
 * → Roads in the United Kingdom (links to redirect • [ history] • )     [ Closure: [ keep]/[ delete] ]
 * → Roads in the United Kingdom (links to redirect • [ history] • )     [ Closure: [ keep]/[ delete] ]
 * → Roads in the United Kingdom (links to redirect • [ history] • )     [ Closure: [ keep]/[ delete] ]
 * → Roads in the United Kingdom (links to redirect • [ history] • )     [ Closure: [ keep]/[ delete] ]
 * → Roads in the United Kingdom (links to redirect • [ history] • )     [ Closure: [ keep]/[ delete] ]
 * → Roads in the United Kingdom (links to redirect • [ history] • )     [ Closure: [ keep]/[ delete] ]
 * → Roads in the United Kingdom (links to redirect • [ history] • )     [ Closure: [ keep]/[ delete] ]

These redirects should all be deleted. The are violations of MOS:CAPS. New redirects, using correct capitalization, per Wikipedia style guidelines, should be created that actually redirects to the English or Welsh regions being described. While the road signs themselves use all capital letters, Wikipedia is not bound by that convention, and in fact specifically rejects it. We're told to re-render headlines from all capital letters into mixed case (either title case or sentence case). Cases from the Supreme Court of the United States are reported with all capital letter titles, yet we use Roe v. Wade in our writing. Road signs in the US render directions and destinations as either "North", "" or "NORTH", yet those references in our articles are all change to "north" per the MOS. These redirects are an attempt to subvert our style guideline, when "The North" would be just as useful as "The NORTH", and if directed to Northern England, even more useful to the reader.  Imzadi 1979  →   22:57, 5 October 2011 (UTC)
 * To followup from my example, a redirect of the form The North (England), which when piped as  will give The North, would be a greater value to the reader if it redirected to Northern England, and it would avoid the capitalization problem.  Imzadi 1979   →   23:08, 5 October 2011 (UTC)
 * In the context of regional destinations, The NORTH != Northern England. Over-generalisation of a subject from a user not too familiar with what regional destinations actually are (as has been pointed out in the past) Jeni  ( talk ) 23:13, 5 October 2011 (UTC)
 * It's very simple what THE NORTH is, it is Yukon, Northwest Territories and Nunavut. Not this very parochial usage of something far in the southern part of the Northern Hemisphere. 70.49.126.190 (talk) 04:30, 13 October 2011 (UTC)


 * Keep all as is. Redirect clearly states "Likely alternative capitalizations". Given that the most common form regional destinations are seen to the general public is in the above capitalisation, I think its fair to call them likely alternatives. To be fair, a very WP:POINTy nomination considering what's currently going on. No reason why the extra redirects Imzadi1979 suggests can't be created too though. (Expect at this point most of USRD to show up on this nom BTW) Jeni  ( talk ) 23:06, 5 October 2011 (UTC)
 * It's also worth mentioning that none of the rationale made by the nominator is backed up by WP:RFD, yet WP:RFD seems to give some pretty good reasons to keep! Jeni  ( talk ) 23:10, 5 October 2011 (UTC)
 * I don't see how THE SOUTH isn't the American South of the United States, if anything, and not a roads article. 70.49.126.190 (talk) 04:30, 13 October 2011 (UTC)
 * Keep as is. They all actually point to the "Regional destinations" section of the article (which could do with some expansion) so they are pointed at the appropriate place and are not causing conflict afaict. A hatnote could be provided at the target if it is felt desirable. While "The NORTH" does mean (roughly) "Northern England" (note not Northern England) when seen on a signpost in London, it means (roughly) "Northern Scotland" when seen on a signpost in Edinburgh. Thryduulf (talk) 13:15, 6 October 2011 (UTC)
 * Keep as is - That capitalization is both a common way to refer to these roads, explained in the target, and unambiguously referring to these regions and the British road system. These are redirects so the WP:MOS is not entirely relevant here. Keeping these causes little damage and is quite likely to point folks to the right place. — m a k o ๛  18:06, 6 October 2011 (UTC)
 * Keep-It seems these roads are commonly referred to this way. While the nominator has made a good case why articles should not be titled this way, these are not articles.--Fyre2387 (talk • contribs) 13:23, 9 October 2011 (UTC)
 * Delete all I can't see how anyone could think that the UK is the only place with a "NORTH", "WEST", "SOUTH" etc. These are highly generic terms. In the US "THE WEST" is definitely nothing to do with the UK. NORTH WALES and SOUTH WALES might be kept, but repointed to articles on the north of Wales and the south of Wales. 70.49.126.190 (talk) 04:25, 13 October 2011 (UTC)
 * Comment an alternative is to redirect "The North" etc to North (disambiguation) etc. 70.49.126.190 (talk) 04:26, 13 October 2011 (UTC)


 * Comment "THE NORTH EAST" -- New England, Pennsylvania, etc. "THE NORTH" -- Canada north of 60. "THE WEST" -- Western North America, the Great Plains, the Prairies, the Rockies, the Pacific coast. OR North America, Europe (ie. The Western World) "THE NORTH WEST" -- Washington State, Oregon. "THE SOUTH" -- the former Confederate States of America, the zone south of the Mason-Dixon line. alternately, Latin America. "THE SOUTH WEST" -- Arizona, Nevada, New Mexico. "THE EAST" -- Newfoundland, Nova Scotia, New Brunswick. OR the US Eastern Seaboard. OR what's east of the Mississippi. OR Japan, China, India, etc. (ie. The Orient, The Eastern World) "THE LAKES" -- The Great Lakes OR Minnesota OR a region in New York state 70.49.126.190 (talk) 04:35, 13 October 2011 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page.