Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2012 November 30

November 30
This is a list of redirects that have been proposed for deletion or other action on November 30, 2012

List of other fictional United States Presidents



 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more redirects. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the redirect's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was Retarget to List of fictional Presidents of the United States. Ruslik_ Zero 19:33, 30 December 2012 (UTC)


 * → List of unnamed fictional United States Presidents (links to redirect • [ history] • )     [ Closure: [ keep]/[ delete] ]

This is fall-out from Articles for deletion/List of other fictional United States Presidents, which closed without consensus on deletion. However, it seems to me that there was some consensus that, if it were kept, the two lists it encompassed should be split. So I have now split it into List of unnamed fictional United States Presidents and List of fictional United States presidencies of historical figures. This leaves the redirect without a plausible destination, so it could be deleted. Mangoe (talk) 22:40, 30 November 2012 (UTC)
 * Delete per nom. - Presidentman talk · contribs Random Picture of the Day (Talkback) 23:44, 30 November 2012 (UTC)
 * Disambiguate between the two lists. Content existed at this title from July 2008 until less than 7 hours ago so it will remain in links from external websites, in bookmarks and people's memories for a long time to come. Thryduulf (talk) 00:29, 1 December 2012 (UTC)
 * Disambiguate Same situation as Redirects_for_discussion/Log/2012_November_17, the same solution will work. Emmette Hernandez Coleman (talk) 09:09, 1 December 2012 (UTC)
 * I've implemented that solution. Emmette Hernandez Coleman (talk) 09:50, 1 December 2012 (UTC)
 * Fine by me. Mangoe (talk) 15:20, 1 December 2012 (UTC)
 * If it's fine by Presidentman, we can close this RFD as "Withdrawn/Disambiguate" Emmette Hernandez Coleman (talk) 19:13, 1 December 2012 (UTC)
 * I've left a note on their talk page. Thryduulf (talk) 15:35, 3 December 2012 (UTC)
 * My delete vote still stands. Now we just have an article with no meaningful content. - Presidentman talk · contribs Random Picture of the Day (Talkback) 21:13, 3 December 2012 (UTC)
 * It's not supposed to be an article, it's supposed to be a disambig equivalent of an R from move. I'll revert the edit that transformed it into an article with no meaningful content. Emmette Hernandez Coleman (talk) 17:35, 5 December 2012 (UTC)
 * I'm ok with leaving this as a stubby list of lists article, but it is incorrect to label it as a disambiguation page. older ≠ wiser 13:19, 6 December 2012 (UTC)
 * On further reflection, this is a pretty silly title. I would delete this. But to address the historical links rationale, I think it would be preferable to redirect this to List of fictional Presidents of the United States which already contains the two links on this page. older ≠ wiser 13:42, 6 December 2012 (UTC)
 * ✅. New Target lists List of unnamed fictional United States Presidents and List of fictional United States presidencies of historical figures, as well as List of fictional United States Presidents A–F, List of fictional United States Presidents G–M, List of fictional United States Presidents N–T, and List of fictional United States Presidents U–Z. Emmette Hernandez Coleman (talk) 20:30, 24 December 2012 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page.

George Jeffrey Papandreou



 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more redirects. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the redirect's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was Keep. This name is clearly a widely used alternative name of George Papandreou. I also do not find it particularly insulting although the subject may not like it. That some of his political opponents have made fun of him using this name does not itself make the name insulting. Otherwise the redirect appears to be useful and not different from many such redirects on the English Wikipedia. Ruslik_ Zero 19:45, 30 December 2012 (UTC)


 * → George Papandreou (links to redirect • [ history] • )     [ Closure: [ keep]/[ delete] ]

I guess we have to do it the long way. I put this up for CSD as an attack page on George Papandreou because it is used to make fun of him by his political opponents. An editor reverted my CSD and fixed the capitalisation. This is an implausible redirect because noone is looking for that name when searching for George Papandreou except his political opponents who want to make fun of him by trying to advertise his non-Greek roots. This instrument of political embarrassment should be deleted.

Just check the results of a Google search and try to read the comments of these results through Google translate.

Example: pragmatika-amerikano[part of url name deleted for BLP reasons]---> pragmatika-amerikan[deleted for BLP reasons] translation: Truly an American omitted for BLP reasons George-Jeffrey-Papandreou. Another similar attack page. See also: Ποιος είναι ο Jeffrey Mineiko – Papandreou!!! Translation: "Who is Jeffrey Mineiko – Papandreou!!!." The content of this website happens to also be racist but I will not provide examples for obvious reasons. You can however try Google translate.

Also from online slang dictionary slang.gr: [http://www.slang.gr/lemma/show/Tzefri_16218 Τζέφρι αποκαλούν ειρωνικά τον Γιώργο Παπανδρέου πολλοί Ελληνάρες πολιτικοί του αντίπαλοι. Περνούν έτσι το υποβολιμαίο μήνυμα ότι δεν είναι βέρος Έλληνας αλλά, στην καλύτερη περίπτωση, αμερικανάκι.]. Translation: "Jeffrey call ironically George Papandreou many big-guy Greek political rivals. They are passing this way the subliminal message that he is not a true Greek but a little American at best."

As a final statement and having presented my evidence here I will not get involved any further with this XfD given that I am not an expert on MfDs neither do I enjoy participating in them. I will only participate if I have to correct any inaccuracies regarding the article of Papandreou or reply to any questions directed at me. Otherwise I leave it up to the community to conduct this RfD from now on. Thank you and goodbye. Δρ.Κ. λόγοςπράξις 02:42, 30 November 2012 (UTC)


 * Comment As the editor who rejected the CSD nomination, I thought I should comment. It appears that there is an effort to avoid mention of the name in the article, and it has been removed multiple time. In my review of the main article talk page, I found Talk:George_Papandreou, as well as another brief discussion of it elsewhere on the talk page. There is dispute there over the sourcing for the name. None of the discussion there really came to a consensus, though there appears to be an undisputed claim that reliable but primary sources indicate it is his name. It also does appear clear that his opponents/critics use the name because they believe it is to their political advantage to do so. To me this indicates that a discussion is required, and it is not suitable for speedy deletion. I just wanted to provide the background, and will remain neutral as to the deletion outcome. Monty  845  01:56, 30 November 2012 (UTC)
 * Comment: There is only one obscure primary source and no secondary sources that support this name. There is not an effort to avoid mention of the name in the article because of the above per BLP. You are of course welcome to add it to the article if you disagree. Δρ.Κ. λόγοςπράξις  02:06, 30 November 2012 (UTC)


 * Keep Redirects are not articles and are not treated as such. It is common to have insulting nicknames for people redirect to their article - doing so is not an endorsement, but simply recognizing that some people might think that's his real name. In this case, accuracy of this name is irrelevant - if critics are using it, the redirect is legit. Ego White Tray (talk) 02:18, 30 November 2012 (UTC)
 * Delete per Google search results. That's true about nicknames, but I seriously doubt anyone would ever search for him using this. Athenean (talk) 08:47, 30 November 2012 (UTC)
 * Delete on a condition. The name "Jeffrey" is so frequently associated with G. Papandreou that some users might search for this, knowing that there are more George Papandreou's around (one is his granpa). As far as I know there was not any official denial about this alleged name and, besides, it is not insulting or anything. Everybody in Greece knows that G.P. has an American mother. It could be a disused name of his, since was baby. The condition is that the main article should include the allegation about this name as "According to some newspapers ..." or "In some papers is referred as Jeffrey because ...". I remind the Greek users that public nicknames for politicians are common (Boulis, Bouldozas, Kinezos, Psilos etc) and generally are not understood as insults.--Euzen (talk) 12:20, 30 November 2012 (UTC)
 * Keep. It's clear that this name is widely used to refer to the target, and the redirect gets more hits than background noise so it is clearly useful. Accordingly there is benefit in keeping this redirect and none in deleting it. Thryduulf (talk) 13:01, 30 November 2012 (UTC)
 * First, sorry for my bad english. Second, his real name is "George Jeffrey Papandreou" that he had it in America, when he borned. So is more correct than George Papandreou. — Preceding unsigned comment added by GreekOrthodox8 (talk • contribs) 16:46, 30 November 2012 (UTC)
 * Keep per Euzen's first sentence. Since some users might search for this, let's point them to the correct article.  Nyttend (talk) 16:46, 1 December 2012 (UTC)
 * Keep per Nyttend. - Presidentman talk · contribs Random Picture of the Day (Talkback) 22:18, 3 December 2012 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page.