Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2013 December 20

December 20
This is a list of redirects that have been proposed for deletion or other action on December 20, 2013.

TurkmenAlem 520E
Relisted, see Redirects for discussion/Log/2013 December 31

Teflon (trademark)



 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more redirects. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the redirect's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was retarget and keep, respectively. Partially because the discussion got a bit off track, I think relisting would be of limited value. But no one seems to support the status quo of having these items as redirects to different places. No prejudice against a more focused RfD on retargeting both to Non-stick surface, or certainly not against an RM to move Polytetrafluoroethylene to Teflon. Really, Rybec's desired revert could even be done BOLDly. The matter does not appear to be settled, but I'm skeptical that this discussion will get us much further. --BDD (talk) 18:42, 28 December 2013 (UTC)


 * Teflon (trademark) → Non-stick surface (links to redirect • [ history] • )     [ Closure: [ keep]/[ delete] ]
 * Teflon → Polytetrafluoroethylene (links to redirect • [ history] • )    [ Closure: [ keep]/[ delete] ]

I feel like 'Teflon (trademark)' and 'Teflon' should go to the same page — though I guess I'm prepared to be talked out of that. Non-stick surface does note that "Teflon is a trademark of DuPont used to refer to their non-stick products", but those products are, I believe, made from PTFE. Polytetrafluoroethylene notes in the lead section, "The best known brand name of PTFE is Teflon by DuPont Co." Cnilep (talk) 08:46, 20 December 2013 (UTC)
 * Retarget Teflon (trademark) to Polytetrafluoroethylene per nomination. It doesn't make sense for the terms to redirect to different places and the fluropolymer is unambiguously what is meant by Teflon (trademark). Thryduulf (talk) 10:07, 20 December 2013 (UTC)
 * Retarget Teflon to Non-stick surface which has the most helpful description and Teflon is not exclusively PTFE. The Whispering Wind (talk) 22:59, 21 December 2013 (UTC)
 * Revert this edit and make Teflon (trademark) redirect to Teflon. As The Whispering Wind and the former Teflon article say, the Teflon trademark is used for various fluoropolymers, not only PTFE. Even if it only referred to PTFE, this brand is a household name and there's likely to be something to say about it as a brand. Having it as a redirect is almost like having Coca-Cola as a redirect to cola. &mdash; rybec   11:13, 23 December 2013 (UTC)
 * User:Thumperward seems to be mistaken about which is the more common name; the Corpus of Contemporary American English, for example, contains 8 instances of polytetrafluoroethylene, versus 460 uses of Teflon; the British National Corpus has 4 of the former versus 32 of the latter. It might be better to split the current content from Non-stick surface and add it to the 2008 content of Teflon. Perfluoroalkoxy and fluorinated ethylene propylene each apparently has uses other than non-stick surface coating. Cnilep (talk) 12:08, 23 December 2013 (UTC)


 * It is simply not up for debate that "Teflon" is the common name for PTFE: we do a disservice to our readers by either leading them down some rabbit hole of trademark envelopment or fudging the right answer by default when searching for the term. For that minority of readers more concerned with "Teflon" as a brand, we have the explanation at non-stick surface. As Thryduulf suggests, the only real question here is whether we really need to cater for that minority using the redirect system at all. Chris Cunningham (user:thumperward) (talk) 14:20, 23 December 2013 (UTC)
 * What was meant by "fudging the right answer by default"? It doesn't refer to having Teflon as a redirect, does it?


 * The [//en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Teflon&oldid=252889495 deleted text] told us, that "Teflon-FEP is a fluorinated ethylene propylene used as a high-temperature insulation for wires". That information (and the deleted text contains more like it) doesn't belong in the non-stick surface or polytetrafluoroethylene articles. A full treatment of the Teflon brand would be off-topic for those articles.


 * I suspect that "Teflon", besides being used as a term for PTFE, is commonly used as a general term for fluoropolymer non-stick coatings that aren't necessarily PTFE and don't necessarily carry the brand name. Someone searching for "Teflon" may be interested in such non-stick coatings, rather than in PTFE. Perhaps it would be best to have Teflon as a disambiguation page. &mdash; rybec   16:35, 24 December 2013 (UTC)
 * Note that Teflon (disambiguation) currently exists. The question may be whether the word Teflon as a primary usage. Cnilep (talk) 02:08, 25 December 2013 (UTC)


 * That's the only thing that's up for debate. There is one question here: are readers primarily looking for the article on PTFE when they type in "Teflon", or are they likely to be looking for a number of other things. The correct answer is that they are likely looking for PTFE. The disambiguation page can be linked in the hatnote for that minority of readers who are looking for "Teflon as a brand name", "non-stick coatings in general" or "Teflon the insulated tape". Chris Cunningham (user:thumperward) (talk) 10:16, 27 December 2013 (UTC)
 * No, the question for this discussion is what are users looking for when they search for "Teflon (trademark)". 88.107.194.208 (talk) 10:47, 27 December 2013 (UTC)

Someone who searches for "Teflon" may be wondering what material it refers to, what it is chemically, and what it's used for. From the second comment in this thread, I learned that the name isn't just used for a single substance, but several fluoropolymers. Because the Teflon article was turned into a redirect, we have a section at the very end of the polytetrafluoroethylene article (called Similar polymers) and a section in the Non-stick surface article called Teflon which, rather than being about the topics of those articles, attempt to tell us what Teflon is, in a way that might easily be missed by a hurried reader. Redirecting from Teflon to polytetrafluoroethylene, which has "The best known brand name of PTFE is Teflon by DuPont Co." in its introduction, tends to create or reinforce the misconception that Teflon is polytetrafluoroethylene and nothing else. If there were an article about Teflon again, it would as a matter of course mention PTFE with a link to that article.
 * Retarget to Polytetrafluoroethylene. When I Teflon trademark, the fourth result is Polytetrafluoroethylene, and Non-stick surface doesnt appear in the top 100 results.  A link to non-stick surface is in the intro of Polytetrafluoroethylene.  What we really need is an article about Teflon the brand, including all products and trademarks under that brand, and the history of those products & trademarks. John Vandenberg (chat) 14:18, 27 December 2013 (UTC)

I looked at the
 * Teflon (trademark) got 12 requests in November
 * Teflon got 5641
 * PTFE got 4009
 * polytetrafluoroethylene got 54060
 * Non-stick surface got 3844

The terms PTFE and polytetrafluoroethylene together receive more than ten times as much traffic as Teflon, giving the appearance that people aren't having trouble finding those articles. Scarcely anyone is searching for Teflon (trademark); it's what's at Teflon that's most important in this discussion. &mdash; rybec   21:49, 27 December 2013 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page.