Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2013 January 23

January 23
This is a list of redirects that have been proposed for deletion or other action on January 23, 2013

Wikipedia:OTHER



 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more redirects. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the redirect's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was retarget.  Wizardman  02:15, 23 February 2013 (UTC)


 * → Alternative outlets (links to redirect • [ history] • )     [ Closure: [ keep]/[ delete] ]

This should redirect to Other stuff exists. Given the number of AfD logs linking to this redirect, I suspect is is already being used that way by most. ~Adjwilley (talk) 22:03, 23 January 2013 (UTC)
 * Retarget as a sort of primary topic. WikiProject Essays ranks Alternative outlets as higher in impact than Other stuff exists, but as part of WP:AADD (via the redirects WP:OTHERCRAP, WP:WAX, etc.) is top-impact. Intuitively, I agree that most editors will mean something more akin to WP:WAX. The current hatnote should be reversed, however, especially to deal with legacy links. --BDD (talk) 22:40, 23 January 2013 (UTC)
 * Retarget. WP shortcuts should not be retargetted on whim, as it can destroy the context of potentially thousands of discussions. It's important to look at the context of how the shortcut is actually used. Of the first 50 listed pages in whatlinkshere quite a lot were duplicates (e.g. individual AfD discussions and the daily log page they are transcluded to), but from those that weren't I found the following statistics:
 * {|class=wikitable

!Intended target!!Links
 * Alternative outlets||3
 * Other stuff exists||25
 * WP:OTHERDATE||1
 * Unsure||2
 * (Target irrelevant)||1
 * }
 * Notes: Some pages have more than one link. I was unable to find the link on 3 pages, almost certainly because it was piped to display a phrase not including the word "other".
 * Which shows clearly what people expect to find, indeed a lot of the uses were constructions like other stuff exists . Of the three that actually mean alternative outlets, two come from a discussion about the addition of a hatnote to that page by a person trying to find the documentation for hatnote templates (e.g. Template:Other uses) and so are fine as a historical record. If retargetted though, the new destination needs a hatnote pointing to Hatnote as well Alternative outlets). I would have liked to have more data, but looking for every instance of the word "other" on a page is very time consuming! Thryduulf (talk) 14:14, 24 January 2013 (UTC)
 * (Target irrelevant)||1
 * }
 * Notes: Some pages have more than one link. I was unable to find the link on 3 pages, almost certainly because it was piped to display a phrase not including the word "other".
 * Which shows clearly what people expect to find, indeed a lot of the uses were constructions like other stuff exists . Of the three that actually mean alternative outlets, two come from a discussion about the addition of a hatnote to that page by a person trying to find the documentation for hatnote templates (e.g. Template:Other uses) and so are fine as a historical record. If retargetted though, the new destination needs a hatnote pointing to Hatnote as well Alternative outlets). I would have liked to have more data, but looking for every instance of the word "other" on a page is very time consuming! Thryduulf (talk) 14:14, 24 January 2013 (UTC)
 * Which shows clearly what people expect to find, indeed a lot of the uses were constructions like other stuff exists . Of the three that actually mean alternative outlets, two come from a discussion about the addition of a hatnote to that page by a person trying to find the documentation for hatnote templates (e.g. Template:Other uses) and so are fine as a historical record. If retargetted though, the new destination needs a hatnote pointing to Hatnote as well Alternative outlets). I would have liked to have more data, but looking for every instance of the word "other" on a page is very time consuming! Thryduulf (talk) 14:14, 24 January 2013 (UTC)


 * Disambiguate it seems that there are a number of places this could be targeted to, and as Thryduulf says we really don't want to change the target. So my suggestion would be to turn it into a diambiguation page and note on that page where the redirect was targeted and when it was changed to a DAB page. Callanecc (talk • contribs • logs) 09:03, 30 January 2013 (UTC)
 * Note I said we don't normally want to retarget shortcuts. However in this case its very clear that people expect it to be a shortcut to Other stuff exists, so like we would in article space it's best to point links to where people expect them to go - particularly as this is frequently addressed to inexperienced users for whom a dab page would likely be of little use. Thryduulf (talk) 14:43, 30 January 2013 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page.

Government-General of Chosen



 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more redirects. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the redirect's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was no consensus, default to status quo.  Wizardman  02:13, 23 February 2013 (UTC)


 * → Korea under Japanese rule (links to redirect • [ history] • )     [ Closure: [ keep]/[ delete] ]

This looks like a badly chosen redirect target. I would say that it is more likely that someone looking for the Government-General of Chosen would prefer to read about the Governor-General of Korea instead of Korea under Japanese rule. Compare with the redirect Government-General of Korea. I would have changed this myself if it weren't for the fact that the redirect target has been changed a few times in the past. Stefan2 (talk) 21:48, 23 January 2013 (UTC)
 * Keep The Governor-General of Korea is "the chief administrator of Korea while it was held as Chōsen," and Chōsen links to Korea under Japanese rule. If someone searches for the Government-General, they're probably looking for the administration rather than the administrator. --BDD (talk) 00:59, 16 February 2013 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page.

Operation Enduring Freedom - Kyrgyzstan



 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more redirects. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the redirect's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was delete.  Wizardman  23:53, 18 February 2013 (UTC)


 * → Transit Center at Manas (links to redirect • [ history] • )     [ Closure: [ keep]/[ delete] ]

The redirect's target describes a military base, not a military operation, as you'd expect. Operation Enduring Freedom states that Kyrgyzstan was part of the war on terror, and that it concluded in 2004, but the section with that statement is tagged with cn. From all I can tell, the extent of these operations included establishing this base. As a misleading redirect with minimal incoming links, I think this is a good candidate for deletion. BDD (talk) 21:46, 23 January 2013 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page.

Manufacturing & Technology News



 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more redirects. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the redirect's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was delete. [Additional comments.] Nabla (talk) 19:27, 10 February 2013 (UTC)


 * → Manufacturing Business Technology (links to redirect • [ history] • )     [ Closure: [ keep]/[ delete] ]

Manufacturing & Technology News is a magazine owned by Publishers and Producers, Inc. Manufacturing Business Technology is an unrelated magazine owned by Advantage Business Media. Therefore the former shouldn't redirect to the latter, and should be deleted until an actual article is created. Brycehughes (talk) 07:43, 23 January 2013 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page.

Hawaii State Highway 31



 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more redirects. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the redirect's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was Delete. Ruslik_ Zero 19:04, 5 February 2013 (UTC)


 * → Hana Highway (links to redirect • [ history] • )     [ Closure: [ keep]/[ delete] ]

No part of highway 31 is part of the Hana Highway, except arguable the easternmost half-mile. This highway is actually two disconnected segments, one a major highway on the opposite side of the mountain and the other a nearly undriveable road west of Hana. Either way, this redirect makes no sense. Delete to encourage an accurate article Ego White Tray (talk) 04:03, 23 January 2013 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page.

Merriam-­Webster



 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more redirects. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the redirect's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was delete all. Note that the only keep concern does not apply, as a redirect exists at Tawq al-hamamah, without the unneeded invisible hyphen. Thomas Cockburn Campbell was already speedy deleted. Nabla (talk) 19:17, 10 February 2013 (UTC)

Deletion. These redirects contain one (or two, in case Cesare O.) hidden soft hyphens. There is no indication, that any of these hyphens has been inserted on purpose, see for example the only remaining link to any of these redirects, Administrators' noticeboard/Archive238. It's allowed to use soft hyphens in redirects and other article titles, but they should be used there only for very good reason, because their invisibility creates trouble. There are no other redirects with a soft hyphen in the main namespace (and only one other article title with such a hyphen). (Possible exception: redirects/articles created after the dump of 2012-12-01.) If a search contains a soft hyphen, the article (without such a hyphen) will not be reached directly, but it occurs at the top of the search results, or even as 'Did you mean?' To avoid this, we would need a million or more new redirects... Griot-de (talk) 01:32, 23 January 2013 (UTC)
 * → Merriam-Webster (links to redirect • [ history] • )     [ Closure: [ keep]/[ delete] ]
 *  → The Ring of the Dove (links to redirect • [ history] • )    [ Closure: [ keep]/[ delete] ]
 *  → News International (links to redirect • [ history] • )    [ Closure: [ keep]/[ delete] ]
 *  → Itera (links to redirect • [ history] • )    [ Closure: [ keep]/[ delete] ]
 *  → Thomas Cockburn-Campbell (links to redirect • [ history] • )    [ Closure: [ keep]/[ delete] ]
 *  → Cesare Orsenigo (links to redirect • [ history] • )    [ Closure: [ keep]/[ delete] ]
 * Support. I created News Group News­papers, and the soft hyphen was indeed unintentional.  News Group Newspapers (without soft hyphen) has existed since 2004, and redirects to the same place. Superm401 - Talk 06:02, 23 January 2013 (UTC)
 * Delete. Pointless to keep. — This, that, and the other (talk) 09:26, 23 January 2013 (UTC)
 * Keep Tawq al­-hamamah. It seems both -ah and -a are fairly often used transliterations of ة.  It does not get many hits but it's not a typo and I see no reason to remove it. gren グレン 21:41, 23 January 2013 (UTC)
 * There is a misunderstanding here. For all of the six redirects there exists an equal-looking analogon, which shall not be deleted: Merriam-Webster and Cesare Orsenigo are the redirect targets itself, Tawq al-hamamah, News Group Newspapers, MPK Engineering, and Thomas Cockburn Campbell are redirects to the same target as the redirects, proposed for deletion. But, as an example, Tawq al­-hamamah, proposed for deletion, contains an invisible character, a soft hyphen, not existend in Tawq al-hamamah. The easiest way, to see the difference (I hope, possibly it's browser-dependent), is to look onto the web-address, mostly at top of the browser window. If you go to Tawq al­-hamamah, you probably will see there "...Tawq_al%C2%AD-hamamah...", but clicking on Tawq_al-hamamah and going back to the redirect itself, there's to read "...Tawq_al-hamamah...". The "%C2%AD" represents the hidden soft hyphen. Not the redirects, as they are read on first look, are the problem, only the hidden invisible soft hyphens are. --Griot-de (talk) 01:16, 24 January 2013 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page.

Kingdom of Serbia (1941–1944)



 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more redirects. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the redirect's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was delete. Nabla (talk) 23:16, 15 February 2013 (UTC)


 * → Territory of the Military Commander in Serbia (links to redirect • [ history] • )     [ Closure: [ keep]/[ delete] ]

Deletion. This redirect is a non-neutral, novel and very obscure synonym for this period in the history of Serbian lands. The Kingdom of Serbia ceased to exist in 1918 when the Kingdom of Yugoslavia was created, and it was never resurrected. No sources in English use this term. No article links to this redirect. Peacemaker67 (send... over) 00:30, 23 January 2013 (UTC)


 * Note Added R from incorrect name. Emmette Hernandez Coleman (talk) 01:49, 23 January 2013 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page.