Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2013 July 28

July 28
This is a list of redirects that have been proposed for deletion or other action on July 28, 2013.

Allan (Tintin)



 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more redirects. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the redirect's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was withdrawn. --BDD (talk) 21:53, 6 August 2013 (UTC)

Compare to: Allan (comics). — Preceding unsigned comment added by Prhartcom (talk • contribs) 23:18, 28 July 2013
 * → List of The Adventures of Tintin characters (links to redirect • [ history] • )     [ Closure: [ keep]/[ delete] ]
 * Keep, plausible disambiguation term. Siuenti (talk) 22:11, 29 July 2013 (UTC)
 * Hi Siuenti! I just wanted to make sure you read my rational below, and I would like to reassure you it isn't necessary for you to agonize over a judgement call you may feel you have to make, wondering if you are making the right decision, as to whether or not the redirects I have submitted are useful or not. I assure you they are not, mainly because of better-named redirects such as each one I mention here (see "Compare to:").  If necessary, you can make a judgement call based on factors outside the universe of Tintin articles that I may not know about, but believe me, from within that world I know my stuff and have come to the decicsions to delete these many dozens of redirects within the Tintin world I am submitting to you, starting with these 8.  Thank-you for your consideration!  Let me know if I can help you with this by answering a Tintin question for you.  Thanks again.  —Prhartcom   (talk)  23:07, 29 July 2013 (UTC)


 * Keep. Having compared them as instructed, it seems that one says "Tintin" and the other says "comics". That isn't a reason to delete one of them. – Arms &amp; Hearts (talk) 08:16, 30 July 2013 (UTC)
 * OK, but FYI: The submission instructions I followed to post here say to provide a rational for a group of submissions at the last submission of the group; at it seems like the admins are not reading the rational below. For this redirect, the rational is WP:NCC in case you didn't see that.
 * This is my first time to post to RFD, and I am rather surprised, perhaps naively, that the admins lean towards Keep instead of Delete; I assumed they would trust the nominator's clean-up decisions. Thank-you for your consideration. —Prhartcom   (talk)  12:54, 30 July 2013 (UTC)
 * Welcome to Rfd, Prhartcom! Also, please remember that not all of us are admins, and not all admins are preservationists.  Rfd has always been up against the facts that "redirects are cheap", that is, they take up very little space on the server, and that most redirects that make it here to Rfd are not particularly harmful.  Joys! –   Paine Ellsworth   C LIMAX ! 14:34, 30 July 2013 (UTC)
 * PS. (That first one, the one about how redirects are cheap – if I were you, I would try not to mention that too often here. Some contributors get their undies in a bunch when they hear that. ;-) –   Paine Ellsworth   C LIMAX !
 * Thank-you for your personal note to me, Paine Ellsworth. Yes, I spent Sunday afternoon cleaning up redirects to this List article, creating and correcting almost 100, and marking 64 for deletion, looking forward to sweeping the riff-raff away, and never expected to find those that have delete permission to have anything other than minor problem with my decisions.  Sorry to be blunt about it, you seem like a great person, but I can see this was a big waste of my time, no one is going to agree that a single one of any of these rubbish redirects need to be deleted.  I am now disillusioned by this process.  I withdraw all my submissions and won't be submitting the other 58.  I will now remove the notices from the tops of the articles.  Honestly, if anyone actually thinks the accidently created "Arturo" redirect below has value and needs to be kept, then... hmm.  I won't say "Thank-you" as I have been, but I will say: Have a good day.  —Prhartcom   (talk)  18:22, 30 July 2013 (UTC)
 * Please let me explain further, Prhartcom. The way things work here is that you have a voice and I have a voice.  You express your valid opinion, and I express my valid opinion.  Others express their valid opinions.  Then an admin comes along and reads our opinions and makes a decision based upon those opinions.  Your opinion about these redirects is just as important as my opinion or anybody else's opinion.  So don't give up so easily.  The admin who closes might just look at your delete opinions and my keep opinions and feel that you made a better case than I did.  That's pretty much how these discussions work.  We are all volunteer contributors here.  You and your opinions are as welcome here as are all of our opinions.  If you feel very strongly that a redirect should be deleted, read about the speedy-deletion process.  Some of those redirects you want to delete might qualify for speedy deletion. –   Paine Ellsworth   C LIMAX ! 22:16, 30 July 2013 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page.

Arturo Benedetto Giovanni Giuseppe Pietro Arcangelo Alfredo Cartoffoli da Milano



 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more redirects. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the redirect's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was withdrawn. --BDD (talk) 21:52, 6 August 2013 (UTC)

Rational: Misspelled (Arcangelo --> Archangelo). Compare to: Arturo Benedetto Giovanni Giuseppe Pietro Archangelo Alfredo Cartoffoli da Milano — Preceding unsigned comment added by Prhartcom (talk • contribs) 23:18, 28 July 2013
 * → List of The Adventures of Tintin characters (links to redirect • [ history] • )     [ Closure: [ keep]/[ delete] ]
 * Keep. Plausible typo – and here are a few more reasons for not deleting redirects. Joys! –   Paine Ellsworth   C LIMAX ! 15:05, 30 July 2013 (UTC)
 * PS. This redirect has been repaired and now hits its target. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Paine Ellsworth (talk • contribs) 15:20, 30 July 2013
 * As people type this name into the search box, TWO entries come up; the real one and the misspelled one. And you don't want to get rid of the misspelled one; you think it's grand.  I give up.  —Prhartcom   (talk)  18:22, 30 July 2013 (UTC)
 * Oh, lighten up. Wikipedia is a constant learning experience and well worth the effort!  Don't give up – learn what you need to know so you can give more in meaningful ways!  And when you learn something that you didn't expect, take it in stride.  You will never regret your involvement with the world's greatest encyclopedia project! –   Paine Ellsworth   C LIMAX ! 21:51, 30 July 2013 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page.

Ben Kalish Ezab and his son Abdullah



 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more redirects. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the redirect's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was withdrawn. --BDD (talk) 21:50, 6 August 2013 (UTC)

Rational: Worded awkwardly. Compare to: Ben Kalish Ezab and Abdullah — Preceding unsigned comment added by Prhartcom (talk • contribs) 23:18, 28 July 2013
 * → List of The Adventures of Tintin characters (links to redirect • [ history] • )     [ Closure: [ keep]/[ delete] ]
 * Keep. This works as an alternative name to Mohammed Ben Kalish Ezab, and the shorter alternative name is used that way in the article. If this is not the issue, then it must be the "his son" part, which of course works because the Abdullah character is the Emir's son. –   Paine Ellsworth   C LIMAX ! 16:14, 30 July 2013 (UTC)
 * I withdraw all my submissions. I can see no one is going to delete anything submitted here. —Prhartcom   (talk)  18:22, 30 July 2013 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page.

<span id="Bird Bros. (Max & G. Bird)">Bird Bros. (Max & G. Bird)
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 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more redirects. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the redirect's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was withdrawn. --BDD (talk) 21:49, 6 August 2013 (UTC)

Rational: Worded awkwardly. Compare to: Bird brothers — Preceding unsigned comment added by Prhartcom (talk • contribs) 23:18, 28 July 2013
 * → List of The Adventures of Tintin characters (links to redirect • [ history] • )     [ Closure: [ keep]/[ delete] ]
 * I withdraw all my submissions, I can see no one is going to delete anything submitted here. —Prhartcom   (talk)  18:22, 30 July 2013 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page.

Bird Brothers
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 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more redirects. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the redirect's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was withdrawn. --BDD (talk) 21:49, 6 August 2013 (UTC)

Rational: Using incorrect case. Compare to: Bird brothers — Preceding unsigned comment added by Prhartcom (talk • contribs) 23:18, 28 July 2013
 * → List of The Adventures of Tintin characters (links to redirect • [ history] • )     [ Closure: [ keep]/[ delete] ]
 * I withdraw all my submissions. You would have said "Keep" anyway. —Prhartcom   (talk)  18:22, 30 July 2013 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page.

Bobby smiles
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 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more redirects. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the redirect's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was withdrawn. --BDD (talk) 21:48, 6 August 2013 (UTC)

Rational: Using incorrect case. Compare to: Bobby Smiles — Preceding unsigned comment added by Prhartcom (talk • contribs) 23:18, 28 July 2013
 * → List of The Adventures of Tintin characters (links to redirect • [ history] • )     [ Closure: [ keep]/[ delete] ]
 * I withdraw all my submissions. You would have said "Keep" anyway. —Prhartcom   (talk)  18:22, 30 July 2013 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page.

Carreidas
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 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more redirects. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the redirect's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was withdrawn. --BDD (talk) 21:46, 6 August 2013 (UTC)

Rational: Worded awkwardly. Compare to: Laszlo Carreidas — Preceding unsigned comment added by Prhartcom (talk • contribs) 23:18, 28 July 2013
 * → List of The Adventures of Tintin characters (links to redirect • [ history] • )     [ Closure: [ keep]/[ delete] ]
 * I withdraw all my submissions. You would have said "Keep" anyway. —Prhartcom   (talk)  18:22, 30 July 2013 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page.

Characters in the adventures of tintin
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 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more redirects. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the redirect's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was withdrawn. --21:45, 6 August 2013 (UTC)

Rational: Using incorrect case. Compare to: Characters in The Adventures of Tintin
 * → List of The Adventures of Tintin characters (links to redirect • [ history] • )     [ Closure: [ keep]/[ delete] ]
 * I withdraw all my submissions. You would have said "Keep" anyway. —Prhartcom   (talk)  18:22, 30 July 2013 (UTC)

Deletion. Reason: Of the 150 redirects to this article, 64 I have determined to be useless, and these are the first 8. Each of these represents a minor character of this comics series, unlikely to be searched for directly; regardless, I have ensured there is at least one other redirect for each of these characters that exists and is useful. No article is using any of these. They should be deleted because they are either misspelled, using incorrect case, are worded awkwardly, or simply do not exist in the list of characters in the destination article and should never have been created. In the cases of parenthetical disambiguation, these are the old convention and the new is "Character name (comics)" (see WP:NCC). I have carefully considered and double-checked each of these entries. Thank-you, and the next batch will be submitted tomorrow. —Prhartcom  (talk)  23:18, 28 July 2013 (UTC)
 * Comment: I don't think you should nominate anything that was correctly named under a previous convention, as readers can't be expected to keep up with that kind of thing. Siuenti (talk) 22:15, 29 July 2013 (UTC)
 * That's a good point. That is the kind of thing I can appreciate an administrator would need to ask me. I think you are right, I will withhold those kind of nominations in the future, i.e. those redirects that are now deprecated.  I withdraw "Allan (Tintin)". The others are not a deprication, so I stick with the others. Now! Let us return to my original documented reasons for these RfD: spelling errors, using incorrect case, are worded awkwardly, or simply do not exist in the list of characters in the destination article and should never have been created. Thanks again for helping with this cleanup. —Prhartcom   (talk)  00:39, 30 July 2013 (UTC)
 * I withdraw all my submissions. You would have said "Keep" anyway. —Prhartcom   (talk)  18:22, 30 July 2013 (UTC)
 * I'm sorry that this has been an unpleasant experience for you. Please still consider nominating the redirects which "simply do not exist in the list of characters" for which I at least will vote "delete". Siuenti (talk) 19:24, 30 July 2013 (UTC)
 * You are very kind to say that; Allright, tomorrow I will submit the group that has that rational. There are twelve of them.  Then I will see what the decisions are.  Have a good day.   —Prhartcom   (talk)  20:57, 30 July 2013 (UTC)
 * And may I suggest that when you submit several related redirects, they should not be listed separately. Look again at Redirects for discussion and pay close attention to the way multiple related redirects should be listed.  Then you will understand why you wait until after the last one to give your rationale.  Also, it may help you to look at this redirect discussion to see how the listing of multiple redirects appear when they are listed correctly.  Joys! –   Paine Ellsworth   <b style="font-size:x-small; color:blue;">C LIMAX !</b> 22:35, 30 July 2013 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page.

<span id="Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents">Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents
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 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more redirects. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the redirect's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was Keep. Deletion would break too many links. Ruslik_ Zero 19:38, 31 August 2013 (UTC)


 * → Administrators& (links to redirect • [ history] • )     [ Closure: [ keep]/[ delete] ]

Cross namespace Main to Wikipedia redirect → Aza Toth 21:04, 28 July 2013 (UTC)
 * Keep. Been around since 2008 – There are many similar redirects from mainspace to portalspace that survived 1-3 Rfd noms because they are harmless if tagged correctly and unprintworthy. –  Paine Ellsworth   <b style="font-size:x-small; color:blue;">C LIMAX !</b> 11:07, 30 July 2013 (UTC)
 * Delete XNR -- 76.65.128.222 (talk) 03:53, 1 August 2013 (UTC)
 * Delete as cross namespace. Surely all admins know what namespaces are… 5.70.98.12 (talk) 23:29, 6 August 2013 (UTC)
 * Delete per WP:CNSR, and properly replace any links to the redirect.&emsp;&mdash;  | J  ~  Pæst  | &#8202; 02:25, 10 August 2013 (UTC)
 * Comment. Please take into consideration the age of this redirect and therefore the potential number of links that could be broken if it is deleted.  This redirect and the one below that was recently deleted have been useful for a very long time. –   Paine Ellsworth   <b style="font-size:x-small; color:blue;">C LIMAX !</b> 11:36, 13 August 2013 (UTC)
 * Keep. No one is going to search for this exact thing unless they're looking for ANI. It's a useful redirect for some less experienced users, and people making comments like "Surely all admins know what namespaces are" don't help; ANI is not the sole property of admins. We have to think about less experienced users, who may very plausibly see the name, and then search for it. Luke no 94  (tell Luke off here) 13:50, 15 August 2013 (UTC)
 * That is a good reason to have kept the redirect below this, Administration notice Board. It appears that minds are changing as regards these old and useful CNRs.  The one that was deleted actually did have a subtle format problem with its lowercase "n" and its uppercase "B", as well as "Administration" instead of "Administrators'", though. –   Paine Ellsworth   <b style="font-size:x-small; color:blue;">C LIMAX !</b> 17:19, 16 August 2013 (UTC)
 * The one below I would've !voted delete had I been here in time. The reason for that is twofold: the formatting issues you alluded to, and the fact that it wasn't a perfect match for the target. There is simply no way, however, that I can foresee anyone searching for "Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents" and not intending to get to WP:ANI, particularly due to the backslash. Luke no 94  (tell Luke off here) 17:40, 16 August 2013 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page.

Administration notice Board
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 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more redirects. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the redirect's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was delete. --BDD (talk) 16:51, 12 August 2013 (UTC)


 * → Administrators& (links to redirect • [ history] • )     [ Closure: [ keep]/[ delete] ]

cross namespace Main to Wikipedia redirect → Aza Toth 21:03, 28 July 2013 (UTC)
 * Keep. Been around since 2006 – There are many similar redirects from mainspace to portalspace that survived 1-3 Rfd noms because they are harmless if tagged correctly and unprintworthy. –  Paine Ellsworth   <b style="font-size:x-small; color:blue;">C LIMAX !</b> 11:08, 30 July 2013 (UTC)
 * Delete XNR, further, this concept is not restricted to Wikipedia, nor even to a digital form, since you can have a physical noticeboard for administration in the real world -- 76.65.128.222 (talk) 02:49, 31 July 2013 (UTC)
 * Delete or redirect to Bulletin board. Surely all admins know what namespaces are... 5.70.98.12 (talk) 23:31, 6 August 2013 (UTC)
 * Delete per WP:CNSR. If anything, it should redirect to WP:Administrator's noticeboard, not the subpage, but it would be best to delete the redirect for consistency.&emsp;&mdash;  | J  ~  Pæst  | &#8202; 01:12, 12 August 2013 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page.

<span id="Lâ€™Après-midi dâ€™un Faune">Lâ€™Après-midi dâ€™un Faune
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 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more redirects. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the redirect's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was Delete. Ruslik_ Zero 19:33, 31 August 2013 (UTC)


 * → Afternoon of a Faun (links to redirect • [ history] • )     [ Closure: [ keep]/[ delete] ]

redirect created in 2005; somehow each apostrophe has been replaced with "â€™" — rybec   13:15, 28 July 2013 (UTC)
 * Comment: looks like mojibake. — Siuenti (talk) 20:34, 28 July 2013 (UTC)
 * Keep. That's an old word processor font (Word Perfect?). Might break external links if deleted. –   Paine Ellsworth   <b style="font-size:x-small; color:blue;">C LIMAX !</b> 23:04, 8 August 2013 (UTC)
 * Question: is this a stylization of some sort? (If so, it should be kept, as stylizations are useful search terms.)&emsp;&mdash;  | J  ~  Pæst  | &#8202; 02:22, 10 August 2013 (UTC)
 * Delete Yeah, it's mojibake. Mojibake redirects have been deleted in the past, but one was kept last year, partially because it was getting hits. This one, however, received a grand total of 10 hits in the three months prior to this nomination (April–June), so I don't see the harm in deletion. If it weren't to a dab or weren't in a foreign language, it might be more worth keeping. --BDD (talk) 16:34, 30 August 2013 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page.

Blu-ray player software
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 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more redirects. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the redirect's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was keep. --BDD (talk) 16:49, 12 August 2013 (UTC)


 * → Blu-ray Disc (links to redirect • [ history] • )     [ Closure: [ keep]/[ delete] ]

destination section removed Ysangkok (talk) 09:47, 28 July 2013 (UTC)
 * I don't understand – the "destination section" is Software standards and it's still there. –  Paine Ellsworth   <b style="font-size:x-small; color:blue;">C LIMAX !</b> 00:35, 1 August 2013 (UTC)


 * Keep. Aside from the nom's confusing rationale, this redirect has a potentially useful page history. –  Paine Ellsworth   <b style="font-size:x-small; color:blue;">C LIMAX !</b> 10:43, 6 August 2013 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page.