Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2013 July 8

July 8
This is a list of redirects that have been proposed for deletion or other action on July 8, 2013

TV18



 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more redirects. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the redirect's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was move TV18 (India) over the redirect. Thryduulf (talk) 10:01, 18 July 2013 (UTC)


 * → Channel 18 (links to redirect • [ history] • )     [ Closure: [ keep]/[ delete] ]

TV18 (India) appears to be the only entity called "TV18", as opposed to "Channel 18" or other variants. TV18 should either point to TV18 (India), or the latter page be moved to the former name. A hatnote to Channel 18 can disambiguate. Cnilep (talk) 01:35, 16 June 2013 (UTC)


 * Oppose "TV18", "Antenna 18", "UHF 18", "Cable 18" etc are common variants on the term "channel 18" -- 65.94.79.6 (talk) 04:21, 16 June 2013 (UTC)
 * Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion so a clearer consensus may be reached.


 * Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, BDD (talk) 18:44, 8 July 2013 (UTC)


 * Retarget per nom, or move TV18 (India) here. — This, that and the other (talk) 02:34, 13 July 2013 (UTC)
 * Either move TV18 (India) here, since the disambiguation is unnecessary, or create "TV&thinsp; $n$ " for every television channel (of number  $n$ ).&emsp;&mdash;  | J  ~  Pæst  | &#8202; 20:42, 15 July 2013 (UTC)
 * Creating redirects for every TV channel would be a good idea. Though not required (WP:OTHERSTUFF) -- 76.65.128.222 (talk) 05:11, 16 July 2013 (UTC)
 * Note that there are no other article-name space pages on Channel 18, just a template that points to two category pages. Cnilep (talk) 05:54, 18 July 2013 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page.

ISBN 0-596-00027-8



 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more redirects. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the redirect's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was delete. However, I could envision a large-scale project to create such redirects, similar to the authority control integration project. Input at a project proposal would likely lead to a clearer consensus than we have here. --BDD (talk) 15:17, 15 July 2013 (UTC)


 * → Programming Perl (links to redirect • [ history] • )     [ Closure: [ keep]/[ delete] ]

I propose that this redirect be deleted because it is "novel or very obscure." 108.56.232.165 (talk) 01:52, 1 June 2013 (UTC)


 * comment how is this novel, or very obscure? ISBN numbers are a standard way to search for books. -- 65.94.76.126 (talk) 04:19, 1 June 2013 (UTC)
 * Keep this is the ISBN to the third edition of the book -- 65.94.76.126 (talk) 04:21, 1 June 2013 (UTC)
 * Delete as this obscures MediaWiki's built in handling of ISBNs, e.g. ISBN 0-14-026299-7 or ISBN 0-596-00027-8. Thryduulf (talk) 15:08, 2 June 2013 (UTC)
 * Yeah, but it isn't very good, is it? It doesn't even show the title and author. Ego White Tray (talk) 03:26, 3 June 2013 (UTC)
 * Actually, to elaborate, it's terrible, isn't it? It doesn't even show the title and author. The first thing a person wants to know after typing in a long number is whether they typed the right number, and there's no way to know here, so that puts this service in terrible category. Ego White Tray (talk) 12:53, 7 June 2013 (UTC)
 * And I don't see how this redirect is actually interfering with it. I type in that first ISBN in the search box and get a red link, not the page. Ego White Tray (talk) 13:02, 7 June 2013 (UTC)


 * comment as far as I can tell, this is the only redirect formatted in this way. There is for example no page that redirects to Perl Cookbook. Even if we assume that anyone will search Wikipedia by ISBN, it seems strange to me that such a search will be successful for this one book and no others. We could keep this redirect and create many thousands of others, but there is as Thryduulf suggests already a mechanism in place for referring to books by ISBN within MediaWiki.108.56.232.165 (talk) 19:21, 2 June 2013 (UTC)
 * Comment that's not right. The thing Thryduulf pointed out does not link to a Wikipedia article page, it links to external resources for searching additional information on books. You can't find a Wikipedia article with that, easily.  -- 65.94.76.126 (talk) 07:05, 3 June 2013 (UTC)
 * That sounds like something that should be discussed as an improvement to the ISBN page. I'm not sure where would be best for that discussion though, but possibly MediaWiki talk:Booksources-isbn, help talk:ISBN or Wikipedia talk:ISBN (maybe start the discussion on one and like from the others). Thryduulf (talk) 08:16, 3 June 2013 (UTC)
 * Keep and make more There should be a redirect like this for every article about a book, including fiction. Wikipedia is an encyclopedia, not a book lookup service, so typing in an ISBN should always point to the article if there is one, and a red link if there isn't. We're an encyclopedia, not a reference desk, so this ISBN thing belongs somewhere other than article space - we shouldn't be filling article space with a huge number of pages that never link to articles. Ego White Tray (talk) 12:53, 7 June 2013 (UTC)
 * Delete. I don't see any likelihood that someone typing in an ISBN would want to see an article on the book; they'd want to find a copy of the book, which the current pseudolink handles fine.  — Arthur Rubin  (talk) 23:17, 17 June 2013 (UTC)
 * Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion so a clearer consensus may be reached.


 * Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, BDD (talk) 17:39, 8 July 2013 (UTC)


 * Delete There is no need to do this. In addition to what Thrydulf said. if an ISBN is in an article, a Google search will find it. Try, for example, ISBN 0-425-04688-5 for one particular rarely held edition of a book we probably all know.  (If the particular edition the isbn represents is very widely held, as for ISBN 0-399-10772-X the WP entry won't be near the top, but adding wikipedia in the google search string will immediately find the WP article.) Search engines index not just the titles of articles, or redirects, but everything within an article . In addition, anyone typing any isbn in any search engine will get a listing for the book, and thus the searcher will know what it is and thus be able to find the WP article if it's notable, even if the WP article doesn't have that particular ISBN.   For good measure, the number for this  redirect is not the usual current ISBN-it's an obsolete  10 digit ISBN, in the old system, which is still used for compatibility. In general each book will have at least 4 ISBNs, the 10-digit ISBN for the paperback and hardcopy, and the 13 digit current ISBN for both the paperback and hard copy. If it's sold in another country by another publisher, this all gets duplicated.  Further, if we were to do this we would also need redirects for the number, "0-596-00027-8" and the forms without hyphens "ISBN 0596000278"  and "0596000278" each of  of which are as likely to be searched for; some countries often write these with just a space instead of the hyphen, so that's yet another set of variants. (ISBN is a publisher's and bookseller's number, to represent each version of a book that can be purchased; libraries use them as a supplemental system; library records, such as in Worldcat, always give every possible ISBN, and provide for searching it in any of the ways it might be formatted. ) Probably in the future with the development of Wikidata we may want to incorporate all this into our system, and not just for books with articles, but books referred to in articles, and books used as references. (Wikidata does already handle ISBNs in principle, but the indexing is still much inferior to Worldcat & other national and international bibliographic databases) Doing it with individual redirects in the enWP is absurd:   a waste of human resources, confusing, incomplete, and unnecessary.  DGG ( talk ) 01:15, 10 July 2013 (UTC)
 * Comment so we shouldn't have any redirects of any type either? since Google can do it for us. I don't see why Google existing has any bearing on this. Regardless of not needing to have a searchbox, because we can use Google, doesn't mean that the searchbox should be useless. -- 76.65.128.222 (talk) 04:24, 10 July 2013 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page.

Heavy metal in countries with an oppressive regime



 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more redirects. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the redirect's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was delete.  Rossami (talk) 22:17, 17 July 2013 (UTC)


 * → Heavy metal music (links to redirect • [ history] • )     [ Closure: [ keep]/[ delete] ]

Delete Unlikely search for the music style, and there is no article on this specific topic or similar Cambalachero (talk) 17:34, 8 July 2013 (UTC)
 * Delete Looks like this used to redirect to Heavy metal in Muslim majority countries, which was merged into the target article after AfD. It's not very useful in its present state, however, as the target article has only one sentence on metal in Muslim countries, and no outright discussion of "oppressive regimes." --BDD (talk) 18:47, 8 July 2013 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page.