Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2014 August 5

August 5
This is a list of redirects that have been proposed for deletion or other action on August 5, 2014.

No Pants Day



 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more redirects. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the redirect's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was wrong forum. This has been sorted out elsewhere. JohnCD (talk) 12:59, 16 August 2014 (UTC)


 * No Pants Day → Pantlessness (links to redirect • [ history] • )     [ Closure: [ keep]/[ delete] ]

Restore article and edit history The edit history has been moved to a dictionary definition article without any references. It is inappropriate that the material in this article be associated with the "nudity" category. Unscintillating (talk) 22:38, 5 August 2014 (UTC)


 * Wrong forum (and oppose) - What is being recommended by the nominator? Are you suggesting that No Pants Day be split off from the Pantlessness article? Are you suggesting that the Pantlessness article be moved back to No Pants Day? Either way, this isn't the right forum. I would also oppose both of those courses of action. Furthermore, the current article is far from sourceless; there are twenty-three references cited in the article at present. Neelix (talk) 03:01, 6 August 2014 (UTC)
 * I avoided stating an opinion about what happens to the pantlessness article. I figure such is a matter for AfD once the No Pants Day edit history and article is restored.  Unscintillating (talk) 06:20, 6 August 2014 (UTC)
 * As for these 23 references, which of the 23 are for pantlessness? (Ans: none)  Unscintillating (talk) 06:20, 6 August 2014 (UTC)


 * Comment: This discussion was closed by me (non-admin), and the closure was subsequently contested by nominator, so I re-open this discussion. — Dmitrij D. Czarkoff (talk•track) 00:18, 7 August 2014 (UTC)
 * Wrong forum: whatever this bizarre nomination may mean, RfD does not deal with restoring articles, edit histories or anything at all. — Dmitrij D. Czarkoff (talk•track) 00:22, 7 August 2014 (UTC)
 * This is "Redirects for discussion". This is a problem with a redirect that needs admin tools.  Unscintillating (talk) 00:56, 7 August 2014 (UTC)
 * Your problem is not with redirect, but rather with an article edited away. Although you still don't specify, what exactly do you want to happen, it is definitely not going to happen here. If you want to delete revisions of Pantlessness preceding page move, you should follow . If you want split page history of Pantlessness, you should ask at WP:AN. If you want to move back the article and return it to previous state, you should gather consensus on article's talk page. If you want something else, you should at least state your wish in plain language with sufficient detail. — Dmitrij D. Czarkoff (talk•track) 01:49, 7 August 2014 (UTC)
 * This is a redirect, this is redirects for discussion, and the request requires admin tools. My request in opening this RfD is stated in bold.  This does not delete Pantlessness, and this does not involve revision deletions.  I've explained that the Pantlessness article should be left with the zero sources that it has, suitable for taking to AfD.  I don't see that your various claims for why this belongs at another forum are backed with policy, guidelines, or case history of similar cases.  This is not within the scope of WP:Editing policy, so discussions on the talk page do not apply.  Split is related, but this is not a normal split, and you've provided no evidence that this discussion should be moved to WP:AN.  We've already discussed moving the article back, and in reverting your close you've agreed that you understand that this is not a WP:RM.  Unscintillating (talk) 23:48, 7 August 2014 (UTC)
 * No, you don't ask for action on this redirect. You ask for action on Pantlessness article's edit history. Please, gather consensus first at article's talk page, and then ask at WP:AN. The only action regarding this redirect is its speedy deletion per WP:CSD, which can't be discussed now (due to lack of proper discussion of the changes you want to perform to article's edit history) and will need no discussion if your suggestion will be supported by consensus. — Dmitrij D. Czarkoff (talk•track) 02:34, 8 August 2014 (UTC)
 * Do you agree that we are discussing a redirect? Unscintillating (talk) 06:31, 9 August 2014 (UTC)
 * No, we are discussing article, that could be previously found in the same location where now resides the redirect. We are not discussing redirect, and we are not having a constructive discussion because you opened this discussion in wrong forum. We are just wasting our time and storage space of Wikimedia Foundation. — Dmitrij D. Czarkoff (talk•track) 12:25, 9 August 2014 (UTC)
 * By your own words, at the location there "now resides the redirect". Unscintillating (talk) 15:47, 9 August 2014 (UTC)
 * And so what? This redirect is not the subject of your request. You request manipultion with edit history of a Pantlessness, and whatever happens here, it will have no effect on that article. does not contain edit history to restore, so you request can't be fullfilled in discussion of this redirect. — Dmitrij D. Czarkoff (talk•track) 19:42, 9 August 2014 (UTC)


 * Comment Deletion process states, "Never close a discussion as a wrong venue without opening a discussion at an appropriate one.".  Unscintillating (talk) 15:47, 9 August 2014 (UTC)
 * Comment to nominator — as far as I can tell, no admin tools are needed. There are no deleted revisions in this page's history and no deleted revisions in the history of the target article: the only way that we'd need admin tools is if we decided to move the target over the redirect, and that would be a requested move, which would be advertised in different places (e.g. target's talk page and WP:RM, so that move-watchers can notice) that don't pay attention to RFDs.  If you want that process and don't know how to work it, let me know and I can set it up for you.  Nyttend (talk) 01:04, 15 August 2014 (UTC)
 * Moving the target back over the redirect would bring with it the few sentences about Pantlessness, which are (IMO) material that needs to stay with the Pantlessness title so that Pantlessness can be taken to AfD. In theory, I could merge/split the No Pants Day material back and cite the edit history in Pantlessness in an edit comment, but this would create a WP:MAD problem if Pantlessness were then taken to AfD, as all of the edit history for No Pants Day currently resides with Pantlessness.  And as per the above comment, there is an objection to such a merge/split.  I suppose that there is another option, which is to take Pantlessness to AfD and try to get the entire thing deleted, then I can request a Userfy to re-create No Pants Day, which by itself has survived AfD.  There seems to be nothing I can do with the two edit histories confounded.  Unscintillating (talk) 01:26, 15 August 2014 (UTC)
 * If you want a history split, this isn't the way to go about it — request a history split specifically. I can help with that if you want, or you can lay it out for another admin; whichever you prefer, you need to be really specific so that we don't end up with any revisions in the wrong place.  Just say "Edits from 2 May 2005 until X need to be at No Pants Day, and edits from Y until the most recent need to be at Pantlessness" if it's that simple, or if it's more complicated, you may need to give even an edit-by-edit account of things.  Regardless of whom you want to perform the split, dump your list on the talk page, and then drop me a note or tag the article with  for another admin to find.  Nyttend (talk) 03:21, 15 August 2014 (UTC)
 * I have replied at Talk:No Pants Day. Unscintillating (talk) 04:14, 16 August 2014 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page.

TheChurchOfJesusChristofLatterdaySaints



 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more redirects. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the redirect's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was keep. JohnCD (talk) 13:04, 16 August 2014 (UTC)


 * TheChurchOfJesusChristofLatterdaySaints → The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (links to redirect • [ history] • )     [ Closure: [ keep]/[ delete] ]

This should be deleted. This is a completely implausible typos or misnomers that is unused by any page. --- ARTEST4ECHO (talk) 16:12, 5 August 2014 (UTC)
 * Delete: although it looks like a CamelCase title of the article, it is not. The fact that it is there since 2001 does not add much plausibility to this title, and stats show that it is not used by humans. — Dmitrij D. Czarkoff (talk•track) 18:25, 5 August 2014 (UTC)
 * Keep. Redirects that have existed for 13 years are bound to have a wide range of incoming links from across the Internet. We're not in the business of breaking long-standing URLs. — This, that and the other (talk) 10:19, 6 August 2014 (UTC)
 * There is no evidence that there actually ever was a significant traffic over this redirect. Also note: initial target was Disabilities, and this CamelCase redirect did not point to the article about The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints during the period when Wikipedia disallowed space in article names, and even a full year after this restriction was dropped. — Dmitrij D. Czarkoff (talk•track) 10:51, 6 August 2014 (UTC)
 * Comment: I agree with Dmitrij D. Czarkoff.  There is no evidence that there actually ever any traffic over this redirect.  It's a completely implausible typos that has just been sitting used since 2001.  Just because it's old doesn't make it likely that incoming links from the internet are there.--- ARTEST4ECHO (talk) 20:17, 6 August 2014 (UTC)
 * Keep update Neutral R from misspelling - lack of spaces, thus a possible outcome when entering a URL directly into the addressbar and thinking our article page names are formatted like the rest of the web; per WP:CamelCase very old links were formatted this was on Wikipedia, and for the period after the restriction was dropped, people still made these because they were the traditional link names. -- 65.94.169.222 (talk) 05:21, 7 August 2014 (UTC)
 * This is not proper CamelCase redirect: lowercase "o" in second "of" and lack of dash in "latter-day" would make it extend into The Church Of Jesus Christof Latterday Saints (note the color of the link) on UseModWiki. Redirects with combination of several typos of questional plausibility are normally not kept. — Dmitrij D. Czarkoff (talk•track) 09:08, 7 August 2014 (UTC)
 * I've updated my opinion, due to the missed "o" -- 65.94.169.222 (talk) 05:56, 8 August 2014 (UTC)
 * Comment I'm going to say the same here as I've said in another nomination discussion of the same date. I've no idea where the policy may be that says breaking incoming links is a keep rationale but it certainly isn't one I've ever seen expressed at WP:AFD and I really do not see what the difference is between a redirect and an article in this context. We regularly delete articles, seemingly without any concern for incoming links. Why are redirects different? - Sitush (talk) 01:03, 14 August 2014 (UTC)
 * Keep "Not breaking links" has never been heard of at AfD because it is hard to think of how it would be relevant; a redirect will cover the problem. The links that went to the merged or redirected article will automatically go yo the new target, while if the information is being deleted entirely, the links should go nowhere. There might be reasons for redirecting to a deleted article list or redirecting tho the AfD, but there would be obvious disadvantages in doing it automatically; if anyone would like to propose this as an option as a new policy, please let me know, & I'll join the discussion. But when we direct a redirect like this the target still exists, and the information is there, but we are making it impossible for the incoming links to find it.  DGG ( talk ) 08:34, 14 August 2014 (UTC)
 * thanks for that explanation. I certainly now see why it would not appear as an argument at AfD. I'm still not convinced about why it should appear as one at RfD. To take an extreme example, if someone created a redirect They Are An Odd Bunch Of People and redirected to a valid article about some religious group, political party or whatever then the target would be retained but would we really worry about breaking incoming links to the redirect? I guess that common sense has to play a part, not merely policy? - Sitush (talk) 08:44, 14 August 2014 (UTC)
 * That would be a delete as negative POV. A closer example would be a redirect from random letters. That would be a delete as useless. Runon names are used all the time on the web, so this is not useless. Yes, it is a matter of common sense to distinguish, which is why we need these discussions, to see if what one person thinks common sense is shared by others.  DGG ( talk ) 09:05, 14 August 2014 (UTC)
 * OK, thanks. This becomes more clear. I now also understand the earlier reference to this being a camel case issue. - Sitush (talk) 09:16, 14 August 2014 (UTC)
 * What links are you talking about? Stats show bot-level activity even including the unprecedented hit count increase during this RfD. And again: this was never an article or visible page. — Dmitrij D. Czarkoff (talk•track) 11:12, 14 August 2014 (UTC)


 * Keep DGG has persuaded me, primarily because of the camel case point. - Sitush (talk) 09:16, 14 August 2014 (UTC)
 * It is wrong CamelCase title – it contains two typos (lowercase "o" in "of" and lack of dash in "latter-day"). In its expanded form it is The Church Of Jesus Christof Latterday Saints instead of The Church Of Jesus Christ Of Latter-day Saints (which surprisingly does not exist either), and there is no reason to treat it differently from its expanded form. — Dmitrij D. Czarkoff (talk•track) 11:14, 14 August 2014 (UTC)
 * Keep. Not hurting anything, and nothing that's so extremely old (it was created just three months after the wikipedia was set up!) should be deleted unless it's quite actively causing problems.  Remember that in the earliest days of the wikipedia, all page titles were in CamelCase because that was the only way to make a link, and people sometimes didn't know what 2+ letters needed to be capitalised (I remember seeing some old archived discussion about AUstralia v. AustraliA v. other options) because there was no standard.  I don't know, but it's very possible that in the earliest days it wasn't possible to include punctuation.  With that in mind, it's very likely that links to this redirect exist in old revisions of articles, and deleting this redirect would break those links with no benefit to anyone.  Nyttend (talk) 01:00, 15 August 2014 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page.

Economic slavery



 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more redirects. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the redirect's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was retarget to Wage slavery. JohnCD (talk) 13:07, 16 August 2014 (UTC)


 * Economic slavery → Big government (links to redirect • [ history] • )     [ Closure: [ keep]/[ delete] ]

Current target does not contain this phrase nor discuss anything related to this concept. Not sure what should be done with this. Maybe retarget to wage slavery (which comes up pretty high in Google results for ). Wouldn't object to deletion either. quant18 (talk) 09:58, 19 July 2014 (UTC) 
 * Redirect to wage slavery which could very well pass as a synonym for economic slavery. The current redirect target seems like a political jab at big government.AioftheStorm (talk) 18:54, 19 July 2014 (UTC)
 * Disambiguate between wage slavery, big government and dependency theory, which constitute three levels of economic slavery I can think of. While big government is a POV, it is rather notable POV worth mention. Failed state and banana republic are also strong candidates. — Dmitrij D. Czarkoff (talk•track) 22:20, 19 July 2014 (UTC)
 * Redirect to wage slavery, which gets close. The attempt to redirect towards Big government appears a POV exercise. The suggestion that this is a disambiguable term strikes me as a stretch... Carrite (talk) 14:06, 21 July 2014 (UTC)
 * delete per WP:REDLINK. When there are three somewhat related but dissimilar topics vying for targetting, it suggests to me that a main article could be written. Mangoe (talk) 14:59, 21 July 2014 (UTC)
 * Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion so a clearer consensus may be reached.


 * Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, BDD (talk) 15:11, 5 August 2014 (UTC)


 * Redirect to wage slavery. Agree with AioftheStorm and Carrite about the POV nature of this redirect. Egsan Bacon (talk) 17:50, 9 August 2014 (UTC)
 * Redirect to wage slavery, agreeing with the arguments just abovr. The other possibilities mentioned are POV.  DGG ( talk ) 08:36, 14 August 2014 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page.

Dhanada Kanta Mishra



 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more redirects. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the redirect's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was keep. I believe the essence of the AfD outcome was WP:POLOUTCOMES, which is an essay, but does commonly describe how such articles are treated. --BDD (talk) 12:56, 29 August 2014 (UTC)


 * Dhanada Kanta Mishra → Berhampur (Lok Sabha constituency) (links to redirect • [ history] • )     [ Closure: [ keep]/[ delete] ]

Fails WP:NPOL, as per the previous AfD. While that AfD resulted in a redirect based on the claim that non-notable election candidates should redirect to the constituency that they contested, I've no idea where that policy comes from. If they're not notable, why bother? Sitush (talk) 13:12, 5 August 2014 (UTC)
 * Keep: the subject is mentioned in the target. Notability has nothing to do with redirects, and no valid rationale for any change was presented. — Dmitrij D. Czarkoff (talk•track) 17:47, 5 August 2014 (UTC)
 * WP:IAR. It should never have been redirected in the first place. That's the problem: it cannot go back to AfD because of the redirect but the guy is not notable and no-one has denied that fact. I understand the principle of "plausible redirects" but, honestly, we're looking at the very thin end of an extremely thick wedge if we start doing this for unsuccessful election candidates: there are several thousand in each Indian election, for example, and there are multiple notable electoins (two national houses and 26/27 states with their own elections). - Sitush (talk) 17:53, 5 August 2014 (UTC)
 * Correction: 29 states - I can't count. Sorry for the delay in correcting but it doesn't substantively alter my argument. - Sitush (talk) 09:59, 13 August 2014 (UTC)
 * The only reason that keeps such redirects from deletion is possibility of off-site linking: Wikipedia articles are routinely linked from everywhere on the web, and there was an article here for some time. Creation of similar redirects is discouraged. — Dmitrij D. Czarkoff (talk•track) 18:39, 5 August 2014 (UTC)
 * Who cares about off-site linking? I certainly don't and loads of articles that are much older get deleted. The article was created as part of a massive spam-my campaign at the end of March, when the Aam Aadmi Party was flooding Wikipedia with references to its candidates in the May 2014 elections. The general issue was raised at, for example, WT:INB and WP:AN. Most of the duds got deleted but this one seems to have slipped through the net. - Sitush (talk) 18:44, 5 August 2014 (UTC)
 * Please, see WP:R. — Dmitrij D. Czarkoff (talk•track) 19:32, 5 August 2014 (UTC)
 * Please see WP:IAR and stop being so officious about things. Use your common sense and consider WP:FLOODGATES if you allow this thing to remain (yes, I know it is a redlink). - Sitush (talk) 20:22, 5 August 2014 (UTC)
 * Common sense is failing to find a good reason to delete this redirect. Why would ignoring rules make Wikipedia better here? Oiyarbepsy (talk) 03:47, 6 August 2014 (UTC)
 * As you should know, we don't keep articles about non-notable people. A failed election candidate with no other claim to notability is indeed non-notable. The problem here is that a prior AfD, while agreeing that he was non-notable, resulted in a redirect even though there was no consensus for either that or for deletion. I've no idea why came to the conclusion that they did because it does not seem to be based on policy-compliant arguments unless they were thinking that it was a "plausible redirect", in which case no-one actually advanced that argument.


 * Now we have a situation where a spammed, recently-created article about a non-notable person remains on the project despite umpteen similar ones created around the same time having been deleted. And we have a situation where there is allegedly no mechanism for policy-compliant deletion of the redirect. This then causes a precedent whereby in future all election candidates are entitled to a page of their own even and if they are non-notable then that page would ultimately be redirected to the constituency that they contested. That is thousands and thousands of additional BLP pages that we would have to monitor aside from this one (and, I guarantee you, in the case of India they will mostly not be monitored and BLP issues are rife). We could ignore all the rules about what can and cannot be deletion under the RfD process in order to bring this situation into line with what normally happens (deletion); alternatively, we could restore the article to its pre-redirect state (also IAR) and run it through AfD again. Some of the RfD rules are spurious in any case; for example, Dmitrij says that the article has been around for a while (it hasn't really) and that off-wiki links would be an issue if it is deleted (it wouldn't - we regularly delete articles without concerning ourselves about off-wiki links and a redirect is no different from an article in that sense).


 * Now, give me some reasons why we should retain the redirect, other than the off-wiki links issue that is in fact a red herring. - Sitush (talk) 05:56, 6 August 2014 (UTC)


 * Keep Comment: Notability is not temporary. While the subject was contesting elections some trivial references about him were seen in news and stuff. Those still remain on internet. After failure in elections, the subject hasn't reached the WP:NPOL bar required by us. But he still remains a possible searchable item. I would agree on deletion of the redirect if someday someone convinced us all of how in bulk redirects are actually costly. §§ Dharmadhyaksha §§ {T/C} 11:06, 6 August 2014 (UTC)
 * Eh? Sure, notability isn't temporary but he hasn't attained that standard, even by your own recognition. If he ever does (eg: he is elected in some future contest) then we recreate. Forget the rubbish about cheap redirects: on that basis, and the often-mentioned more general one that storage is cheap anyway, we wouldn't need a notability policy: we'd just retain anything that could be reliably sourced even to a passing mention. It is as if everyone has suddenly been affected by a full moon or something. I mean, I know you're sensible, Dharmadhyaksha, but that's why I'm flabbergasted by the arguments that you and others are putting up. You, in particular, are aware of the problems connected to Indian BLPs and of the sheer scale of Indian elections. Not to mention how in, say, Punjab, the commonality of names is pretty extreme and thus if we allow this precedent we're really heading towards a massive disambiguation problem. - Sitush (talk) 11:44, 6 August 2014 (UTC)


 * Well, the NPOL is basically discussing criteria for an article's existence. (No way am I suggesting that different lenient criterion be written for redirects of all N-essays.) But we can't neglect the fact that the term is searchable (or more practically, was while he was contesting). I can foresee the problem that would arise if all nominees of all numerous elections of past and present started having redirects; that also include independent candidates who will only be mentioned in some official notices, etc. But I suppose we have to handle that problem if and when it comes. I would side on deletion with you if the redirects were directly created based on this as precedent..... (Actually, its getting complicated now. I have previously opposed AfDs that resulted in redirecting Hindi songs to their respective Bollywood films. In those cases, they were random Hindi-words strings. But here the notability of people is slightly more than songs. Nevertheless, confused now and hence striking off keep.) §§ Dharmadhyaksha §§ {T/C} 12:26, 6 August 2014 (UTC)
 * I have just (neutrally) mentioned this discussion at the India Project talk page. Is there anywhere else that might be appropriate? - Sitush (talk) 10:02, 13 August 2014 (UTC)


 * Keep, and I would support making these universally for failed candidates, and not just in India. The criterion is that they are mentioned in the article, if they include independent candidates the redirects would be made also. Present and past. It leads a person searching to useful information: where and when they ran, and how many votes they received.   WP can handle it; I see no practical objections other than the problem of those running in multiple elections.  If there are 10,000 election districts worldwide with an avg of 4 candidates, with one every 2 years average for the last 50 years, that's 1,000,000. We now have  6,433,947 redirects in main space--it's adding only another 16%. If anyone wants to make a bot proposal to do it, I'll support it.  DGG ( talk ) 08:52, 14 August 2014 (UTC)
 * Singh is an extremely common name in the Punjab. In fact, probably 90% or so of the males in that state use the name, mainly because it is common to all Sikh males. This creates big problems in real life and probably creates problems on Wikipedia because of the extent of disambiguation required (I've not checked but am rather going off my anecdotal experience here). Adding many thousand more Singhs as redirects will serve to amplify the problem for scant gain. And I repeat: the BLP issues surrounding India and Pakistani subjects are immense, and creating thousands of redirects at each election will increase the exposure to BLP problems because someone has got to monitor that lot for usurpation of the redirect. As you'll be aware, Indian topics are poorly maintained anyway without overloading the system like this. Similar problems would exist for other extremely common Indian names, of which Yadav might be an example (the Yadavs are an extremely large community and they are extremely politicised, often controversial as individuals when in working the public sphere, and thus often subject to extremely poor edits).


 * I suppose some might say that, for example, UK equivalents are Smith, Brown, Jones etc and they would be right, although the number of Smith, Browns and Jones' combined in the UK are likely to be less that the number of Singhs just in Punjab. There would still be a disambig and BLP problems in the UK articles, although it wouldn't be to the same extent.If a person fails GNG then they should not be here: please do not cause us to create almost overnight an even bigger problem than already exists. - Sitush (talk) 09:13, 14 August 2014 (UTC)


 * Thinking about it, we'd probably end up with, for example, Yogesh Singh (2014 Lok Sabha general election candidate), Yogesh Singh (2018 Lok Sabha general election candidate), Yogesh Singh (2013 Punjab Legislative Assembly election candidate), Yogesh Singh (2013 Haryana Legislative Assembly election candidate) and so on. There will be such clashes even in one election but multiplying that by 29 state elections held every few years and it is going to be a mess. - Sitush (talk) 09:35, 14 August 2014 (UTC)


 * Adding to what Sitush says; we have Harsh Vardhan (Delhi politician) and Harsh Vardhan (Uttar Pradesh politician), Manoj Kumar (politician) and Manoj Kumar (Delhi politician). One more funny thing; our article Jarnail Singh (politician) started about the person who won the Delhi Legislative Assembly election, 2013 from Tilak Nagar (Delhi Assembly constituency). It eventually turned into another person's article who contested the Indian general election, 2014. We currently have a disclaimer at the top and also a sentence "He is sometimes confused with an MLA of Tilak Nagar". §§ Dharmadhyaksha §§ {T/C} 11:29, 14 August 2014 (UTC)


 * Keep, applying NPOL criteria is to determine what politicians merit standalone articles, not redirects. NPOL instead actually supports keeping this redirect, by stating that for "candidates for political office who do not meet this guideline, the general rule is to redirect to an appropriate page covering the election or political office sought in lieu of deletion." So honestly this nomination, made on the basis of a guideline that expressly contradicts its rationale, should have been speedy closed as without any merit. Notability is also not the standard for determining what subjects are appropriate to merely mention within an article on an indisputably notable topic. WP:N, by its own terms, does not govern internal article content ( "These notability guidelines only outline how suitable a topic is for its own article or list. They do not limit the content of an article or list." ). As noted above, the relevant considerations are whether the term/name is mentioned in the target article and the redirect title could be a useful search term. That is easily satisfied here. Responding to all of that with nothing more than "IAR" is not an argument. postdlf (talk) 14:54, 14 August 2014 (UTC)
 * My response has not just been "IAR". I do think that if people saw the big picture then they wouldn't be so hung up on the policy but I have pointed out at the beginning that the real problem here is that this redirect should never have been created in the first place. If needs be, I'll start a site-wide RfC because the lack of common sense being applied here is staggering me. We've got ourselves in a pickle because someone basically assessed consensus in the AfD without correctly weighing the GNG/NPOL situation, which was not denied by those who commented. They accepted what appear to be non-compliant arguments: the article should have been deleted at the outset and instead they created the redirect, which is why we are here now. This is an extremely worrying precedent and I'm not going to let a bit of bureaucracy get in the way of what (I think is) common sense. - Sitush (talk) 15:04, 14 August 2014 (UTC)
 * That the redirect was created by the admin as part of his close is effectively irrelevant, because deleting the article would not preclude any other editor from creating the redirect after deletion, nor would the subsequently created redirect be deletable on the basis of that AFD (i.e., WP:CSD would not apply to it). You would still have to come here to RFD, and you'd still get the same answer: that your argument is contrary to existing guidelines (even the one you started out by citing) and contrary to longstanding and site-wide consensus on redirects. That this redirect exists (whether or not created as a consequence of an AFD) is is not a "worrying precedent", but rather "business as usual". postdlf (talk) 16:35, 14 August 2014 (UTC)
 * Fine. So I can download the candidate lists for the 2014 general election in India and create maybe 20,000 redirects for BLPs to the various constituencies. We'll have utter chaos in no time at all. It isn't as if you or anyone else who has contributed to this discussion (other than Dharmdhyaksha) are regularly involved in the crap that happens on India-related stuff but each time it appears, I'll send it your way. This is process wonkery, it really is. We're struggling already, folks and you should at least know how problematic copyvio can be in that particular sphere. - Sitush (talk) 16:46, 14 August 2014 (UTC)
 * In case you are serious, please read WP:POINT first. Gorobay (talk) 16:49, 14 August 2014 (UTC)
 * You'd better believe that I'm serious. Why should this one guy be the exception when we've denied it to all of the others. - Sitush (talk) 16:51, 14 August 2014 (UTC)
 * And, fyi, the constituency of Chennai South set something of a record: there were 40-odd candidates just for that one. - Sitush (talk) 16:58, 14 August 2014 (UTC)
 * While in the 1996 assembly elections, there were 1033 candidates for one constituency in Tamil Nadu. - Sitush (talk) 17:10, 14 August 2014 (UTC)
 * One of the key points is that the article must actually mention the search term. If there are 20,000 names listed in various sourced election articles, then perhaps we should have 20,000 redirects. But we both know that not all of the candidates are listed on WP in these articles (or prove me wrong by showing me), so you're raising a straw man. I don't see why you saw it relevant to characterize them as "BLPs (never mind the fact that neither a person nor a redirect is a "biography of a living person"), as the sole question is whether it's verifiable that they were candidates in a particular election. If it's not, then remove them from the election article and do not redirect the name there. If it is verifiable, then there's no problem with BLP compliance to include the name and a redirect. Screaming "BLP!" doesn't give any added weight to your position. But regardless, if you create 20,000 redirects just because you think it would illustrate why that approach would be a bad idea and not because you honestly think it would be a good idea, then you would be violating WP:POINT. Plus the fact that it's far better for redirects to be created organically by editors who are interested or think it would be useful. If someone creates an article for a nonnotable candidate, that's possibly a measure of reader interest and so may point to some value for the redirect, versus a candidate no one has ever tried to post content about. postdlf (talk) 17:12, 14 August 2014 (UTC)
 * Despite what some people seem to think, I'm not thick. We have articles for the constituencies. Many of those already mention all of the candidates and where they do not then I'll make sure that they do. The BLP thing is because the redirects will be hijacked, then the BLP issue comes in. Don't believe that? Just watch. And I do think it would be a good idea if it is a good idea for this one that is under specific discussion. As I said a few minutes ago, why should this person get to see his name linked through from Google etc and others do not? - Sitush (talk) 17:22, 14 August 2014 (UTC)


 * Keep Seems to be a reasonable outcome to redirect non-notable candidates to the constituency articles. I agree with Sitush that it can cause problems if it's a disambiguated name, but in this case it is not. Perhaps a realistic future guideline is that redirects can stand where (a) the candidate has only contested one constituency (some try their luck in several) and the name does not require disambiguation. Number   5  7  15:49, 14 August 2014 (UTC)
 * Comment Sitush, you've mentioned the difficulties of making NPOV articles in this area--  this very difficulty is one reason why  redirects are helpful. It permits us to make lists rather than deal with   individual articles.  DGG ( talk ) 16:58, 14 August 2014 (UTC)
 * Only if we full-protect the redirects. And I'd still like to know how we're going to deal with the disambigs. We'll need some sort of standard naming format. - Sitush (talk) 17:10, 14 August 2014 (UTC)


 * This probably belongs at RfC, folks. The discussion is only tangentially about Dhanada Kanta Mishra; it's about how notability guidelines interact with redirects.— S Marshall  T/C 21:56, 14 August 2014 (UTC)
 * But there's not a real question about that; the nominator just disagrees with the answer. postdlf (talk) 03:27, 15 August 2014 (UTC)
 * I would tend to concur with you that redirects are an appropriate way of dealing with failed election candidates who are named in the target article, but I think Sitush's position is arguable. I think there's a real question for a RfC.— S Marshall  T/C 11:14, 15 August 2014 (UTC)


 * Delete. This person didn't win even 1% of the votes polled. No articles link to the redirect, and it's going to stay that way for forseeable future, because the person doesn't meet the notability criteria for politicians. The redirect is actually misleading, since DK Mishra is an academic, whose closest claim to being notable is probably being a departmental dean at the KIIT University. This redirect just ensures that a nearly irrelevant Wikipedia article appears at the top of search engine pages, when someone searches for "Dhanada Kanta Mishra". It doesn't do any good for the reader, because the article has no information on the person. It doesn't do any good for DK Mishra, because when people search for his name, they don't get to see his academic credentials; instead they see him as someone who lost an election badly. It doesn't do any good for Wikipedia's reputation, because people don't find what they're looking for. utcursch | talk 03:49, 15 August 2014 (UTC)
 * Delete per Sitush and Utcursch (though I agree this should probably go to an RfC). There are good reasons why Wikipedia does not attempt to be a "list of everything and everyone"; among them (to quote Deletionism): "having articles on the many unnoteworthy individuals named John Anderson makes it difficult for readers to find the article about the notable U.S. presidential candidate with that name". That applies just as much to redirects. Also, we need to discourage the use of Wikipedia for self-promotion. Some political systems allow large numbers of candidates most of whom have no chance of election and know it, but are there to make a point or get their name in the papers. Redirects for every failed candidate offer a tempting chance to get your name to pop up in Google listings. JohnCD (talk) 22:08, 15 August 2014 (UTC)
 * Re: your last sentence, I think you're presuming the tail will wag the dog. A redirect should not exist to an article that does not even mention the redirect title, and whether an election article mentions a candidate is for editors to decide by applying an appropriate threshold. The OP raises fears of thousands of candidates for individual constituency elections, but does not claim that any articles currently list that many (notwithstanding his POINTy threat to make it so). postdlf (talk) 14:24, 17 August 2014 (UTC)
 * Keep as argued by postd and DGG.Shyamsunder (talk) 13:47, 17 August 2014 (UTC)


 * Delete DKM's redirect to the constituency per what info utcursch brings here. We truely are portraying the guy like a bad loser than maybe an average academic. And maybe start an RfC for the overall generic case. §§ Dharmadhyaksha §§ {T/C} 04:11, 18 August 2014 (UTC)


 * While I understand and even agree with some of the nominator's concerns about the utility and value of redirecting an unsuccessful candidate's name to an election article or a candidates list, this isn't the right venue for the discussion — our policies do currently allow it, and no particular reason has been offered as to why this particular candidate would be uniquely ineligible for the same treatment that many others get. If there were a policy discussion around removing all such redirects, I might support that position — but an RFD about one non-notable candidate's redirect isn't the place to establish that sort of consensus. Keep, but consider a different venue if you'd like to pursue having the existing consensus revised or overturned. Bearcat (talk) 19:08, 18 August 2014 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page.

Faculty of Automotive and Construction Machinery Engineering



 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more redirects. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the redirect's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was delete. --BDD (talk) 00:55, 14 August 2014 (UTC)


 * Faculty of Automotive and Construction Machinery Engineering → Warsaw University of Technology (links to redirect • [ history] • )     [ Closure: [ keep]/[ delete] ]

This was an article but has been changed to a redirect: however the title is too generic to be useful. An article of this name has previously been renamed to be more specific & changed to a redirect, without creating a reirect. TheLongTone (talk) 12:27, 5 August 2014 (UTC) ...Redirect has now been changed back to an article, don't know where this leaves this discussion.TheLongTone (talk) 21:33, 5 August 2014 (UTC)
 * Delete: most likely there are countless faculties whose names may be translated this way. — Dmitrij D. Czarkoff (talk•track) 17:49, 5 August 2014 (UTC)
 * Delete: This is an inappropriate title for either an article or a redirect. An earlier version of the page was moved to a more appropriate title, Faculty of Automotive and Construction Machinery Engineering, Warsaw University of Technology. If the department is separately notable, that is the place for an article. For now, even that title is redirected to the university article. —teb728 t c 20:58, 5 August 2014 (UTC)
 * Delete: I reverted the changes back so we can delete the redirect. It had originally appeared to me as though an editor was vandalizing the article. Steve Lux, Jr. (talk) — Preceding undated comment added 23:26, 5 August 2014 (UTC)
 * Delete as a vague redirect. -- Lenticel ( talk ) 03:23, 6 August 2014 (UTC)
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Noni Ιoannidou



 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more redirects. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the redirect's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was procedural closure. This redirect is already nominated for discussion at Redirects for discussion/Log/2014 July 29. (Non-admin closure) — Dmitrij D. Czarkoff (talk•track) 18:02, 5 August 2014 (UTC)


 * Noni Ιoannidou → Noni Ioannidou (links to redirect • [ history] • )     [ Closure: [ keep]/[ delete] ]

See Redirects_for_discussion/Log/2014_July_29. I don't see a diffference, but there is another iota somewhere. - TheChampionMan1234 06:41, 5 August 2014 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page.

Hrvåtski



 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more redirects. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the redirect's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was I have boldly retargeted this back to Keith Fullerton Whitman since I have found a primary source for this name: https://soundcloud.com/kfw/05-track-05 (the artist’s Soundcloud page) and the change to make it point to Croatian language seems to have been done in bad faith. (non-admin closure) ï¿½ (talk) 20:02, 1 September 2014(UTC)


 * Hrvåtski → Croatian language (links to redirect • [ history] • )     [ Closure: [ keep]/[ delete] ]

å is not used in Croatian, and this is not a name for the Croatian language in any language. - TheChampionMan1234 05:39, 5 August 2014 (UTC)
 * Delete per nom.-- Lenticel ( talk ) 06:27, 5 August 2014 (UTC)
 * Delete per nom. — Dmitrij D. Czarkoff (talk•track) 18:03, 5 August 2014 (UTC)
 * Retarget to Keith Fullerton Whitman, this is the original target of the redirect and seems to be a pseudonym of this artist. ï¿½ (talk) 19:46, 5 August 2014 (UTC)
 * Apparently this is a rare stylization of his alias, which does not deserve redirect per WP:NEO. — Dmitrij D. Czarkoff (talk•track) 21:05, 5 August 2014 (UTC)
 * Does not seem to be rare at all, since the article was created under this title. ï¿½ (talk) 17:44, 6 August 2014 (UTC)
 * Currently the article does not even mention this title. The nickname is spelled as "Hrvatski" with ordinary "a". This is consistent with my search results. — Dmitrij D. Czarkoff (talk•track) 21:13, 6 August 2014 (UTC)
 * Retarget per I?1/2. I don't know whether Allmusic is a reliable source, but it's popular enough that its use of this spelling shouldn't be ignored.  Either it's a valid spelling, in which case we definitely shouldn't delete it, or it's an error that's plausible enough to confuse people at a very popular website, in which case it's very likely that people will search for the guy via this spelling.  Nyttend (talk) 01:07, 15 August 2014 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page.

რუსები



 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more redirects. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the redirect's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was delete. --BDD (talk) 00:54, 14 August 2014 (UTC)


 * რუსები → Russians (links to redirect • [ history] • )     [ Closure: [ keep]/[ delete] ]

Not especially Georgian. TheChampionMan1234 03:57, 5 August 2014 (UTC)
 * Delete per WP:FORRED. — Dmitrij D. Czarkoff (talk•track) 18:03, 5 August 2014 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page.

Learn Japanese
Relisted, see Redirects for discussion/Log/2014 September 15%23Learn Japanese

Idioma japonés



 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more redirects. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the redirect's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was delete. --BDD (talk) 00:54, 14 August 2014 (UTC)


 * Idioma japonés → Japanese language (links to redirect • [ history] • )     [ Closure: [ keep]/[ delete] ]

Not especially Spanish. TheChampionMan1234 03:46, 5 August 2014 (UTC)
 * Delete Japanese is Japanese, not Spanish. Japanese has no particular affinity for Spanish. WP:NOT a translation dictionary -- 65.94.169.222 (talk) 06:02, 5 August 2014 (UTC)
 * Delete per WP:FORRED. — Dmitrij D. Czarkoff (talk•track) 18:07, 5 August 2014 (UTC)
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Holokus



 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more redirects. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the redirect's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was retarget to Mother Hubbard dress for which it provides a useful search term. NAC. The Whispering Wind (talk) 02:06, 13 August 2014 (UTC)


 * Holokus → The Holocaust (links to redirect • [ history] • )     [ Closure: [ keep]/[ delete] ]

Not especially Malaysian. TheChampionMan1234 03:43, 5 August 2014 (UTC)
 * Delete WP:NOT a translation dictionary; -- 65.94.169.222 (talk) 06:06, 5 August 2014 (UTC)
 * Update Retarget per Lenticel -- 65.94.169.222 (talk) 05:53, 6 August 2014 (UTC)
 * Retarget to Mother Hubbard dress which it is an important synonym (Hawaiian Holoku). It is a type of dress which was used by missionaries to 'civilize' the people of Polynesia.-- Lenticel ( talk ) 06:31, 5 August 2014 (UTC)
 * Retarget per Lenticel, tag with R from alternative name and R from plural. — Dmitrij D. Czarkoff (talk•track) 18:11, 5 August 2014 (UTC)
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FJS
<div class="boilerplate rfd vfd xfd-closed" style="background:#FFEEDD; margin-top:0.5em; padding:0 10px 0 10px; border:1px solid #888888;">


 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more redirects. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the redirect's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was dabify. --BDD (talk) 00:52, 14 August 2014 (UTC)


 * FJS → Franz Josef Strauss (links to redirect • [ history] • )     [ Closure: [ keep]/[ delete] ]

The current target is somewhat misleading, given that this person doesn't seem to have been notably mentioned by their initials. Also, a search on the English Wikipedia for pages containing "FJS" seems to not provide amicable results to warrant converting FJS into a disambiguation page. Steel1943 (talk) 00:17, 5 August 2014 (UTC)
 * Disambiguate Fallskärmsjägarskolan (FJS) ; Lunar regolith simulant (FJS-1) ; Toyota FJ Cruiser (FJ-S) ; Airline codes-F (FLORIDAJET aka FJS) ; FJ singular form for FJs/fJs -- 65.94.169.222 (talk) 06:13, 5 August 2014 (UTC)
 * WTF? I do not think I get what the argument is here. There is not enough content for a disambiguation page? Well, then don't convert it to one (would be fine with me, though). "[T]his person doesn't seem to have been notably mentioned by their initials"? It would have been nice if the original poster had left the slightest indication of how they arrived at that conclusion. A google search for FJS in the individual's language or limited to sites from the individual's country results in a helpful box on top "See results about Franz Josef Strauss (German Politician)". His party's foundation runs a tribute website at fjs.de. Tried any German newspaper? Or is the point that he is not mentioned as FJS in English? Well, that might be because he is not talked about that much at all. (FWIW, the German wikipedia pages for FDR and LBJ still list individuals not usually mentioned by these initials in German.) --a.bit (talk) 07:22, 5 August 2014 (UTC)
 * Disambiguate per IP. — Dmitrij D. Czarkoff (talk•track) 18:13, 5 August 2014 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page.