Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2014 June 30

June 30
This is a list of redirects that have been proposed for deletion or other action on June 30, 2014.

Karen Straughan



 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more redirects. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the redirect's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was delete. --BDD (talk) 17:38, 7 July 2014 (UTC)


 * Karen Straughan → Men& (links to redirect • [ history] • )     [ Closure: [ keep]/[ delete] ]
 * GirlWritesWhat → Men& (links to redirect • [ history] • )     [ Closure: [ keep]/[ delete] ]

Not mentioned in target article. gobonobo + c 18:28, 30 June 2014 (UTC)
 * Delete: the only mention of Karen Straughan on Wikipedia is an unsourced statement at Canadian Association for Equality, which is outdated and is not guaranteed to survive for long – the statement itself is unrelated to the article. There is just no good target. Also WP:RED might apply. — Dmitrij D. Czarkoff (talk•track) 05:01, 1 July 2014 (UTC)
 * I merged discussion here, as these two are closely related. — Dmitrij D. Czarkoff (talk•track) 13:04, 1 July 2014 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page.

Mailtor



 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more redirects. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the redirect's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was delete. Normally I'd be hesitant to perhaps contradict a recent AfD decision, but the rationale of the subject being mentioned there is no longer valid. --BDD (talk) 17:47, 7 July 2014 (UTC)


 * Mailtor → Comparison of webmail providers (links to redirect • [ history] • )     [ Closure: [ keep]/[ delete] ]

Redirect to comparison page which does not include it. (Background: Article creator also added to the comparison page, when AfD found it not notable, it was closed as redirect while listed at the comparison. Removed a few days ago. &mdash;  Rhododendrites talk  |  16:01, 30 June 2014 (UTC)
 * Retarget to Tor (anonymity network), which is a new section I've created based on the previous article. See comments below. Philg88 ♦talk 16:37, 30 June 2014 (UTC)
 * Please do not copy pages (including their history) currently at XfD, per the fifth/last item under WP:Guide to deletion. If Mailtor is deleted, your two edits in [//en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Tor_%28anonymity_network%29&dir=prev&offset=20140622195024&limit=4&action=history this history range] must be deleted (WP:Revision deletion) to comply with WP:Copying within Wikipedia. WP:Redirects for discussion/Log/2014 June 9 was a recent case where [//en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special:Log&page=Celibacy revdel was used]. Flatscan (talk) 04:34, 1 July 2014 (UTC)
 * When I made those edits, the Mailtor article had already been redirected to what appeared to be an invalid target and I was unaware of this RfD. This wasn't a straightforward situation per the comments below. Philg88 ♦talk 21:10, 1 July 2014 (UTC)


 * Comment - I reverted the Tor article addition and left a message on that talk page before seeing this, but briefly: you basically restored the content of the article/merged it when there was no consensus to do so at the AfD. The sources are quite poor and it furthermore doesn't fit on the Tor page, where it was placed under implementations when it's a hidden service (which are, for the most part, not specifically addressed on the main Tor article). I'm still confused why anybody is defending this redirect/subject when there's barely evidence of this subject's existence nevermind even one single reliable source. First an unusual close as redirect sans consensus to do even that due to the page creator also adding it to a list of websites (a judgment call which, it seems, is within the prerogative of the closer), but now, after the apparent uncontroversial removal from that list and subsequent RfD, the AfDed article's content is added back to the encyclopedia in an even more prominent venue? --&mdash;  Rhododendrites talk  |  19:08, 30 June 2014 (UTC)
 * I have to admit to some initial confusion here, but I now see that you removed the AfD closing redirect target at Comparison of webmail providers with the comment that the AfD had decided that Mailtor wasn't notable while the whole point of the redirect outcome was to provide an alternative location for MailTor information. I didn't know that when I first saw this RfD discussion and thought some communication error had occurred with the suggested redirect. Adding Mailtor to the third party section of the Tor article seemed the best alternative redirect as other services such as Vuze, BitTorrent client, Bitmessage anonymous messaging system and TorChat instant messenger are all covered there. The concensus at AfD determined that Mailtor was not sufficiently notable to warrant its own article and should be redirected, it did not say that all mention of Mailtor should be banished from Wikipedia forthwith. Had this RfD gone unchallenged, then the article would effectively have been deleted, which was most definitely not the AfD outcome. Philg88 ♦talk 04:44, 1 July 2014 (UTC)
 * Yes it was an...unusual close. Basically closed as non-notable with no consensus to redirect, but no consensus not to redirect... so it was closed as redirect -- and only because the person who created this woefully non-notable article also added it to a list. General attitude seems to be that doing so was within a closing admin's prerogative, but that simple local consensus at comparison of webmail providers that it should not be on the list is all that's necessary to justify deleting via RfD, as it would no longer point anywhere (and indeed, having established it's not notable and there are no reliable sources, should not persist). Granted, I think it's silly that something for which there's barely evidence for its existence should be redirected just because someone added it to a list, rather than the other way around (that the outcome of a discussion determining its non-notability and scant verifiability be reason itself to remove it from the list), but that's not the point here. Regardless, even if we were to say that AfD has no bearing on the article content being used elsewhere, the reason it failed AfD is because there are no reliable sources -- and you're sticking with those same unreliable sources to put the content elsewhere. --&mdash;  Rhododendrites talk  |  06:40, 1 July 2014 (UTC)
 * Although the references are indeed weak and insufficient to determine notability, they do show that something called Mailtor exists and that it provides web, smtp etc mail services on the Tor network. Tor is important for various reasons so I believe that its only current mail service should be mentioned somewhere. If it isn't then it's no big deal. Philg88 ♦talk 07:49, 1 July 2014 (UTC)


 * Delete: Wikipedia does not cover the subject unfortunately. FWIW Tor (anonymity network) should probably include a list of popular/established services, which would be ideal for covering such topics and placing redirects. Still AfD discussion didn't uncover sources required to cover this service even as a list entry. — Dmitrij D. Czarkoff (talk•track) 22:15, 30 June 2014 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page.

Child safety



 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more redirects. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the redirect's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was Retargeted to Child protection. — &#123;&#123;U&#124;Technical 13&#125;&#125; (e • t • c) 14:18, 8 July 2014 (UTC)

Child safety should not redirect to Child care, as the latter is about daycares, babysitting, and such--not "child safety." 75.99.101.86 (talk) 13:52, 30 June 2014 (UTC)
 * Child safety → Child care (links to redirect • [ history] • )     [ Closure: [ keep]/[ delete] ]
 * Child Safety → Child care (links · [//en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Child_Safety&action=history history] · stats)     [ Closure: [ keep]/[ delete] ]
 * Comment: I added Child Safety to this nomination due to having the same concern provided by the nominator. Steel1943  (talk) 14:55, 30 June 2014 (UTC)
 * Retarget someplace else (I'm currently not sure where; Child protection may be an option, but there has to be a better target then that), weak keep due to the current target being valid (but there really should be a better target), or very weak delete per WP:REDLINK to save this title for a new article. Steel1943  (talk) 14:55, 30 June 2014 (UTC)
 * FWIW what should the ideal article be about? The only thing that comes to my mind in relatation to children safety is safe power socket (covered or with shutters). — Dmitrij D. Czarkoff (talk•track) 05:08, 1 July 2014 (UTC)
 * Possibly; that's why it's low on my opinion list. In fact, the example you provided sounds more like an example that could be added into the current target article, if it's not there yet. Steel1943  (talk) 13:20, 1 July 2014 (UTC)


 * Delete per WP:REDLINK. This can certainly be a standalone article, but neither child care nor child protection are really the right places to point it. See the topics at Safety under "Child" for some ideas. --BDD (talk) 17:48, 7 July 2014 (UTC)
 * Disambiguate between the pieces of child safety equipment (Template:Child safety devices is a good starting point), video game content rating system, childcare, (probably) child protection and many other things I forgot about. I am pretty sure that all these things are somehow relevant, and they don't really fit together to a single article. As long as I couldn't figure out any other topic for the article under this title, I don't think that WP:REDLINK really applies here. I would happily retarget this to Category:Child safety, but I doubt that XNR would be welcome here. — Dmitrij D. Czarkoff (talk•track) 18:58, 7 July 2014 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page.

Laika (dog)



 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more redirects. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the redirect's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was retarget. --BDD (talk) 17:35, 7 July 2014 (UTC)


 * Laika (dog) → Laika (dog breed) (links to redirect • [ history] • )     [ Closure: [ keep]/[ delete] ]

Retarget to Laika. The obvious topic of "(dog)" is the primary topic article "Laika" which is about a dog. In all cases, it is not the disambiguated article, as it should either redirect to a disambiguation page Laika (disambiguation) or the primary topic article Laika, and not the disambiguated article as the disambiguated article is not the primary topic article. -- 65.94.171.126 (talk) 07:07, 30 June 2014 (UTC)
 * Retarget to Laika, which is for some strange reason supposed to be primary topic, and also happens to be a dog. — Dmitrij D. Czarkoff (talk•track) 22:06, 30 June 2014 (UTC)
 * Retarget to Laika per Dmitrij D. Czarkoff . -- Lenticel ( talk ) 00:22, 2 July 2014 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page.

Live (1994 album)



 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more redirects. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the redirect's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was retarget to List of albums titled Live. --BDD (talk) 16:35, 7 July 2014 (UTC)


 * Live (1994 album) → Live (Michael Nyman album) (links to redirect • [ history] • )     [ Closure: [ keep]/[ delete] ]

deletion, as can be seen at List of albums titled Live (1994 album) is not a useful redirect In ictu oculi (talk) 06:06, 30 June 2014 (UTC)
 * Retarget to List of albums titled Live per nom's rationale to delete. The redirect is essentially a R from incomplete disambiguation, and should target the proper list/disambiguation page. Steel1943  (talk)|
 * Retarget to list of albums titled Live per Steel1943. — Dmitrij D. Czarkoff (talk•track) 04:51, 1 July 2014 (UTC)
 * Delete (after updating incoming links). Too ambiguous to be of use. In addition the albums at that list, Live (band)'s Throwing Copper was released in 1994. - Eureka Lott 03:39, 2 July 2014 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page.

Live (1982)



 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more redirects. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the redirect's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was keep. --BDD (talk) 16:33, 7 July 2014 (UTC)


 * Live (1982) → Live (New Riders of the Purple Sage album) (links to redirect • [ history] • )     [ Closure: [ keep]/[ delete] ]

for deletion, as can be seen at List of albums titled Live {1992) is not a useful redirect In ictu oculi (talk) 06:10, 30 June 2014 (UTC)


 * Keep – As it says in the target article, Live (New Riders of the Purple Sage album), "The album is sometimes referred to as Live (1982)."  Because of that, readers may search for "Live (1982)".  The fact that it's also in List of albums titled Live is helpful, as readers might see that, but the redirect itself still has value. — Mudwater (Talk) 08:10, 30 June 2014 (UTC)
 * Keep per Mudwater. Steel1943  (talk) 23:15, 30 June 2014 (UTC)
 * Keep per Mudwater and add hatnote (" ") to target. — Dmitrij D. Czarkoff (talk•track) 04:47, 1 July 2014 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page.