Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2014 September 16

September 16
This is a list of redirects that have been proposed for deletion or other action on September 16, 2014.

Soulja Boy's fourth studio album



 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more redirects. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the redirect's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was delete. Stop. HAMMER time. --BDD (talk) 15:05, 21 October 2014 (UTC)


 * Soulja Boy's fourth studio album → Soulja Boy (links to redirect • [ history] • )     [ Closure: [ keep]/[ delete] ]

If/when album is released, an article can be created using its actual title - at the very least, when it a title, a redirect to the main article can be made there instead. Redirect is overly specific, lengthy, and not needed at this time. As someone else pointed out in its edit history, this topic currently fails WP:NALBUMS, WP:CRYSTAL and WP:HAMMER. I haven't been able to find redirects named according to this pattern, so I assume the precedent is to get rid of them - this isn't a likely search query at all. I doubt we'd keep such a redirect simply because it was made in advance of the target album's release; we certainly don't make them retroactively. I don't know if any information currently exists on this topic, but even if there is, it can probably be included on the main article (which is currently lacking in that department), which the redirect implies has already happened.  Lazy Bastard  Guy  18:29, 16 September 2014 (UTC)
 * Keep. Wikipedia articles on forthcoming albums often have this kind of title, making it a plausible search term. In fact there seem to be a lot of redirects like this, for example Coldplay's fifth studio album and Madonna's 11th studio album. Also, there is information in the article about an alleged forthcoming article, you can find it by searching for "promise". Siuenti (talk) 20:35, 16 September 2014 (UTC)
 * But you are hoist with your own petard. "You can find it by searching for 'promise'" indicates the R is not helpful to the search! And Madonna's eleventh studio album doesn't exist, nor Coldplay's 5th studio album. Where is the policy that says where we go from ordinals to numerals? Show me that. Si Trew (talk) 08:15, 17 September 2014 (UTC)
 * The redirect tells you there is something to look for. It could be targetted to the section entitled 2011–present: Various mixtapes, EP's & next album Siuenti (talk) 08:26, 17 September 2014 (UTC)
 * That's another thing I'm concerned about - if we include a certain redirect, we're basically including a certain of redirect and might have to account for its various typos and other variations. That seems pretty counterproductive to me, because I don't think people are actually going to be thinking about it this way. If people want to know what his Xth album was, I have a feeling they're probably just going to search Soulja Boy and look for wherever it lists his albums. I don't think people are going to think, "Oh, I don't remember the name of it but this song comes from his second album," and then search anything containing the phrase "studio album". ''' Lazy  Bastard
 * Yep. About seven years ago I had 39 redirects for the First Furst of Windisch-Graetz, i.e. Alfred I, Prince of Windisch-Grätz for example.I was editing a load of articles about the Hungarian Revolution of 1848, and the linking was all over the place in all 39 forms So we cut it to three. I suggested, here at RfD, that by analogy if we carry on that way we should for Alfred III, Prince of Windisch-Grätz have Third Furst and First Thurd and so on, as . Third Thurd was my finisher, and my reductio ad absurdem worked. I think this is on the same lines, and I agree, if not careful it becomes de facto policy. Si Trew (talk) 00:21, 18 September 2014 (UTC)

Guy ''' 15:40, 17 September 2014 (UTC)
 * Sorry. I think in editing I may have removed the back end of Lazy's signiature by mistake. There is no point in me restoring it, because that would seem like socking. But sorry, Lazy did have it in full. Si Trew (talk) 00:52, 18 September 2014 (UTC)
 * * gasp * How DARE you?!?!?!?! ;)  Lazy Bastard  Guy  01:40, 18 September 2014 (UTC)


 * Delete. Or we create Soulja Boy's first studio album, Soulja Boy's second studio album, and Soulja Boy's third studio album, presumably? Si Trew (talk) 08:13, 17 September 2014 (UTC)
 * Delete The equally fictional title Soulja Boy's fifth studio album is equally fine as a REDLINK, bringing up search results pointing to the redirect target. Alsee (talk) 23:31, 17 September 2014 (UTC)
 * Keep. The redirect accurately describes the target. Steel1943  (talk) 20:03, 16 October 2014 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page.

IPhone 7



 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more redirects. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the redirect's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was delete. --BDD (talk) 14:26, 21 October 2014 (UTC)


 * IPhone 7 → IPhone (links to redirect • [ history] • )     [ Closure: [ keep]/[ delete] ]

Nonexsistent product without even rumours. - TheChampionMan1234 07:04, 16 September 2014 (UTC)

Delete per Champ. WP:CRYSTAL.Si Trew (talk) 10:16, 16 September 2014 (UTC)
 * Delete No guarantee that such a product will be released, or that it will be called such in any way.  Lazy Bastard  Guy  18:31, 16 September 2014 (UTC)
 * Delete unlike the Iphone 6 case there is nothing to indicated that this will be announced any time soon.--76.65.42.142 (talk) 23:05, 16 September 2014 (UTC)
 * Delete and probably should salt until a valid draft is created. Steel1943  (talk) 19:51, 20 September 2014 (UTC)
 * If salted, I would suggest salting for further redirects (e.g. iPhone 8 and so on).  Lazy Bastard  Guy  01:01, 21 September 2014 (UTC)
 * Not sure about salting. F'rexample, Microsoft Windows 2000 was released before Microsoft Windows 7; patently these are marketing terms that cannot be predicted. But equally, we can't predict what terms should be salted. I think we should take them case by case as they are invented. Si Trew (talk) 12:47, 22 September 2014 (UTC)
 * On that note, I think this is more easily anticipated because Apple does use sequential numbering in addition to unpredictable lettering. I suppose it could be a question of equal treatment (i.e. we salted these terms, why not these other terms which as you suggested we cannot anticipate). Nonetheless, I think salting the basic ones will prevent those ones from being made, because anyone attempting it will find the basic ones don't exist so there won't be a point to making those more-unpredictable ones if their basic equivalents aren't allowed.  Lazy Bastard  Guy  15:50, 22 September 2014 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page.

Barcelone



 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more redirects. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the redirect's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was no consensus. We'd keep if it were a simple typo, probably delete if it were just a foreign-language redirect. It's ambiguous what's going on here. --BDD (talk) 14:23, 21 October 2014 (UTC)


 * Barcelone → Barcelona (links to redirect • [ history] • )     [ Closure: [ keep]/[ delete] ]

Not especially French. - TheChampionMan1234 03:37, 16 September 2014 (UTC)
 * Weak Keep as a R from typo, I can see this as a typo in English -- 70.51.46.146 (talk) 05:16, 16 September 2014 (UTC)
 * , I don't think its a plausible typo as 'e' in English is never pronounced "Ə" at end of words. - TheChampionMan1234 05:26, 16 September 2014 (UTC)


 * Week Keep. I think it is a plausible typo. When I chucked in Barcelon into WP's search engine add-in for Firefox, it said "Did you mean Barcelone"? It did not say "Did you mean Barcelona". I note that in Catalan the accents would be different, anyway (and the pronunciation of the C is very different, in English a "th" not a hard "S"). Si Trew (talk) 10:20, 16 September 2014 (UTC)
 * Actually Catalan doesn't have the "th" sound, it would be a hard "s". Siuenti (talk) 20:49, 16 September 2014 (UTC)
 * You're right, I got it the wrong way round. Si Trew (talk) 21:02, 16 September 2014 (UTC)


 * Comment unstressed "e" and unstressed "a" are often pronounced as a schwa (Ə) in Catalan, so "Barcelone" and "Barcelona" would be pronounced the same way. I don't think many words end in "ne" but a lot end with "re". Siuenti (talk) 20:49, 16 September 2014 (UTC)
 * Comment . The thing is, is it a likely search term in the English Wikipedia? That it comes up on the search engine before Barcelona, the obvious target, is not a reason to keep: it is a re iason to moan about the search engine. Bartholomew came up for me on that search before Barcelona but it would seem obvious to me Barcelona was primary. But actually in my search Barcelone, the R, is more prominent. Perhaps it is because I am on a Hungarian IP address: Your results may differ. Si Trew (talk) 21:06, 16 September 2014 (UTC)
 * Comment. I must admit I have a bee in my bonnet about this one. Do you want, by queer logic, Acetona to redirect to Acetone?. Si Trew (talk) 07:24, 17 September 2014 (UTC)
 * WP:WAX and there is a long-standing principle at RfD that not deleting something once it exists does not automatically endorse the creation of similar redirects. Thryduulf (talk) 07:31, 17 September 2014 (UTC)
 * Indeed. But the fact that, when searching, the kinda well-known name for the city is eclipsed by the R is somewhat surprising. But that really is just one of the random things of the search engine, which let's face it has got a lot better over the last couple of years no doubt thanks to lot of gnomes that we always moan about anonymously. But still is no match for intelligence. Si Trew (talk) 07:44, 17 September 2014 (UTC)
 * Comment I'm not sure what to say about this one. From the typo standpoint, I would agree - until I look down at my keyboard and I see E & A separated by a few keys. I could understand keys accidentally interfering as typos, but E & A are not really adjacent. If the only thing left is that it's from another language, I say delete since (per my reasoning given all over this page alone) this is the English Wikipedia, full stop.  Lazy  Bastard  Guy  01:08, 21 September 2014 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page.

Dʒenive



 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more redirects. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the redirect's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was delete. --BDD (talk) 14:21, 21 October 2014 (UTC)


 * Dʒenive → Geneva (links to redirect • [ history] • )     [ Closure: [ keep]/[ delete] ]
 * Dʒənivə → Geneva (links to redirect • [ history] • )     [ Closure: [ keep]/[ delete] ]
 * Dʒənivə → Geneva (links to redirect • [ history] • )     [ Closure: [ keep]/[ delete] ]

We don't keep redirects from IPA. - TheChampionMan1234 03:30, 16 September 2014 (UTC)

I am adding this entry to the same RFD as this looks like a redirect from pseudo-IPA instead of actual IPA. --Metropolitan90 (talk) 03:58, 16 September 2014 (UTC)
 * DZ@niv@ → Geneva (links · [//en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=DZ@niv@&action=history history] · stats)     [ Closure: [ keep]/[ delete] ]
 * Comment is that SAMPA ? -- 70.51.46.146 (talk) 05:17, 16 September 2014 (UTC)
 * Yes. Thryduulf (talk) 07:45, 16 September 2014 (UTC)
 * delete all per nom. IPA is not found in isolation and anyone who can read it will have the word in at least one language nearby. Thryduulf (talk) 07:45, 16 September 2014 (UTC)
 * Delete all per Thryduulf and all above. Create an IPA Wikipedia if youn want. Even IPA is not an exact guide to pronunciation either: for example most English speakers pronounce "pronunciation" as if it were "pronounciation". I don't know whether to blame Webster or the OED for that, but it isn't "pronounciation". So we are in a meta-argument here; IPA would probably give the received pronunciation but that is not how people actually say it. For example for me "hat" is a silent H and a glottal stop on the T, "'a'", but IPA does not record it that way. Si Trew (talk) 10:25, 16 September 2014 (UTC)
 * Comment. That's a bit unfair of me on IPA. The article at glottal stop has the example for "cat" which is broken down for various English speakers (Cockney, Estuary, US etc). I was more having a go at dictionaries: which tend to record one or two at the most. Si Trew (talk) 09:50, 18 September 2014 (UTC)


 * Comment. I think Austin Powers in one film points out that Geneva is named after Jenever whereas of course Gin etc are in fact named after Juniper I think this false etymology is on the same lines. (Powers was just showing his complete poshness but underlying ineptitude, of course on purpose.) Si Trew (talk) 10:29, 16 September 2014 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page.

Paises Bajos



 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more redirects. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the redirect's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was delete. --BDD (talk) 14:19, 21 October 2014 (UTC)


 * Paises Bajos → Netherlands (links to redirect • [ history] • )     [ Closure: [ keep]/[ delete] ]


 * Weak retarget to Spanish Netherlands per argument at Redirects_for_discussion/Log/2014_September_15 - TheChampionMan1234 03:24, 16 September 2014 (UTC)
 * Retarget -- 70.51.46.146 (talk) 05:25, 16 September 2014 (UTC)


 * Weak retarget to Netherlands. Pays-Bas is a redirect to there, for example, but Pays Bas without the hyphen leads you to the internal search engine. "Netherlands" literally means "Low grounds", as we all know. Is it a likely search target? I see no harm in keeping it. Paises Bajos is Spanish and Portuguese. To throw an iron in the fire, Esperanto eo:Nederlando does not mention at all, even in Esperanto, that it means "Low Countries" (which more generally would be Benelux). This is our responsibility at EN:WP, we are the world language. Si Trew (talk) 10:38, 16 September 2014 (UTC)
 * Comment I commented below on other redirects to this article that someone searching for them in a language not really used here on the Wikipedia probably wouldn't get much use out of an English-language article on the subject. Awhile ago, a number of redirects came up that turned out to be either translations or transliterations (I don't remember exactly) of certain people's names and the consensus was to delete them. Personally, I think that applies here too. I don't see the sense in having multiple-language redirects on the  Wikipedia. I know OP is asking whether it should be retargeted, but I think it should be deleted. Of course, there's probably some reason I'm wrong and consensus will be to keep them in some form or another, but I don't really care... just thought I'd weigh in.  Lazy  Bastard  Guy  18:40, 16 September 2014 (UTC)
 * Comment. I pretty much agree with all you say there. It is occasionally useful to have an ; I tend to do so when I have translated an article so that the article has both the title from e.g. FR:WP as a redirect. (And also etc. if necessary.) However, we are the English Wikipedia, that is to say English language. In all its stupid varieties. So to start adding foreign words, I cannot see the point: I would think it hinders a Spaniard trying to search for an article that is better served at ES:WP. Those in other alphabets are just totally spurious, how would someone with an English keyboard layout possibly type them? Si Trew (talk) 07:31, 17 September 2014 (UTC)
 * All very excellent points there, my friend. This is also why I don't think we should have wikilinks to other-language Wikipedia articles within enwiki articles - it just doesn't serve the English-speaking reader well. Plus, it opens a whole new can of worms when it comes to whether or not we should include one specific language edition instead of another - I mean, what's the criteria there?  Lazy Bastard  Guy  15:42, 17 September 2014 (UTC)
 * Ahem. "What's the criterion" or "what are the criteria". Blimey! Si Trew (talk) 02:57, 18 September 2014 (UTC) (Sings, you say potato and I say patatas.... you say the beano and I say bananas.... oh call it all off shall we?)
 * I was aware it wasn't grammatically correct, but for some reason it just sounded better in my head ;)  Lazy Bastard  Guy  01:03, 21 September 2014 (UTC)


 * Delete. Come on, I will lay my cards on the table. We have the Dutch Antilles but we don't have the Nederlandsen Antelles, for example, nor do we have Les antilles du pays-bas or whatever. WP:BABEL? Si Trew (talk) 07:49, 17 September 2014 (UTC)
 * Delete Such redirects will encourage strange links in articles and next comes its own entry. Kill it while small. gidonb (talk) 06:59, 22 September 2014 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page.

Contraversies about the Netherlands



 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more redirects. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the redirect's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was delete. --BDD (talk) 14:17, 21 October 2014 (UTC)


 * Contraversies about the Netherlands → Netherlands (links to redirect • [ history] • )     [ Closure: [ keep]/[ delete] ]

Note that there is a typo in the title, but not only that, no plausible target can be found. - TheChampionMan1234 03:21, 16 September 2014 (UTC)


 * Delete per nominator. Going on this logic, we could easily have redirects such as Sizes of television screens in state X, which we obviously don't need or want.  Lazy  Bastard  Guy  18:42, 16 September 2014 (UTC)
 * I would read them. What fascinates me is in countries that are exclusively metric, the TV screen sizes are in imperial (17 inch screen etc). Which was nominal for CRTs, but is even more arbitrary for these newfangled flat screen thingies. You should hang out at Template talk:Convert more! Si Trew (talk) 07:37, 17 September 2014 (UTC)
 * Ha ha, I will give that a try!  Lazy Bastard  Guy  05:06, 18 September 2014 (UTC)


 * Delete per above. Champ, how do you find these things? Si Trew (talk) 07:35, 17 September 2014 (UTC)
 * Oh, see http://dispenser.homenet.org/~dispenser/cgi-bin/rdcheck.py/?page=Netherlands - TheChampionMan1234 23:45, 18 September 2014 (UTC)


 * Delete Such redirects will encourage strange links in articles and next comes its own entry. Kill it while small. gidonb (talk) 06:59, 22 September 2014 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page.

Der Nederlands



 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more redirects. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the redirect's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was delete. --BDD (talk) 14:16, 21 October 2014 (UTC)


 * Der Nederlands → Netherlands (links to redirect • [ history] • )     [ Closure: [ keep]/[ delete] ]
 * Der nederlands → Netherlands (links to redirect • [ history] • )     [ Closure: [ keep]/[ delete] ]

Imitation of someone else's accent, not funny. - TheChampionMan1234 03:18, 16 September 2014 (UTC)
 * comment der -- "der" is an article in Dutch (like "the"), "Nederland" is the Dutch spelling, so, looks like a typo to me. -- 70.51.46.146 (talk) 05:22, 16 September 2014 (UTC)
 * Then it would come under WP:TITLE for not starting titles with "The". It has always bothered me a little that the article is at Netherlands whereas in English we generally say The Netherlands, (or of course Holland which is technically incorrect as it is only one part of The Netherlands); the problem we have is how much are we "correct" and how much do we reflect what people actually say? I doubt an English-speakin person would put in Der Nederlands, however much they have a cold in their nose.
 * But there are always exceptions, of course, Das Kapital or The The or whatever. It's not a hard and fast rule. Si Trew (talk) 06:59, 17 September 2014 (UTC)
 * Some people will search for article titles with "the" though (not everybody is familiar with Wikipedia article title policy) hence why we have redirects like The Netherlands. Thryduulf (talk) 07:28, 17 September 2014 (UTC)
 * Absolutely right, and I see no harm in that redirect. But how likely are they to search for "Der Nederlands"? I know what you said about it not setting precedent etc but unfortunately in practice it does, and the next thing you know the D disk back at Wikipedia Central gets full up with der der der or da da da). Si Trew (talk) 07:54, 17 September 2014 (UTC)


 * Delete This isn't the Dutch Wikipedia, this is the English Wikipedia. Someone searching for it in Dutch isn't likely to get much use out of the article to begin with.  Lazy Bastard  Guy  18:33, 16 September 2014 (UTC)
 * Keep or retarget. This a very plausible rendering of the country's native name. Someone looking on en.wp for this will almost certainly be looking for English language content having seen or heard something in Dutch they have not interpreted quite correctly (native names are long established as good redirects). Alternatively we could point it to the Nederland disambiguation page. Thryduulf (talk) 19:21, 16 September 2014 (UTC)
 * Personally, I'd use Google Translate for something I didn't know, as I don't think Wikipedia should be anyone's translating service, but that is just me. No strong opinion here.  Lazy Bastard  Guy  19:31, 16 September 2014 (UTC)
 * I have a suspicion (not that I would ever be able to prove it) that one of Google Translate's sources is the Interwiki links on Wikipedia, especially if marked (as I do) with the required tags, etc: since if it is roughly a parallel text it's a good crib. Of course, when I translate I move things around a little to conform to EN:MOS as best as I can hit that moving target, but I bet that they use WP a lot as a crib and e.g. shared pictures on WP:COMMONS gives a good hint at the translation for the captions. I know it is statistical machine translation, but sometimes one can see in the back-translation a hint of one own's style, and "every man likes the look of his own handwriting like everyone likes the smell of his own farts" (W. H. Auden). Declaration of Interest: I studied Machine translation under one of the leading lights in that subject, in a futile attempt to get my girl. I learned a bit of Japanese and Spanish, but I never got the girl. Si Trew (talk) 21:19, 16 September 2014 (UTC)
 * I think I see what you mean regarding the hint of one's own style (sometimes I'll run a translation of something I know and it comes up exactly as I would have translated it, but that's pretty rare). I don't think girls know how smexy machine translation studies can be...  Lazy Bastard  Guy  01:06, 21 September 2014 (UTC)


 * Delete. Thry's convinced me (unwittingly) to cast my notvote as delete. Totally agree with LazyBastard. Not a question of nations or racism etc but of language. Otherwise, we might as well merge all the wikipedias into one. I suggest One Nation Wikipedia. Si Trew (talk) 21:14, 16 September 2014 (UTC)
 * Delete Not in any language, let alone English. gidonb (talk) 06:59, 22 September 2014 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page.