Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2015 May 9

May 9
This is a list of redirects that have been proposed for deletion or other action on May 9, 2015.

2016 New York Yankees season



 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more redirects. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the redirect's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was delete. --BDD (talk) 21:35, 17 May 2015 (UTC)


 * 2016 New York Yankees season → New York Yankees (links · [//en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=2016_New_York_Yankees_season&action=history history] · stats)     [ Closure:  ]

WP:CRYSTAL: there isn't any information about this season on their page. Tavix | Talk 21:00, 9 May 2015 (UTC)
 * Delete, WP:CRYSTAL as Tavix says. what always astounds me is how you find these things, I mean I find a few along my way  as I am looking for other stuff, but you seem incredibly good at picking out all kinds of odd redirects, from all kinds of different subject areas, how do you do it? Si Trew (talk) 04:58, 10 May 2015 (UTC)
 * This tool is my best friend. Tavix | Talk 05:00, 10 May 2015 (UTC)
 * Sheesh and I just translated a Dutch article and French article from WP:PNT. You big cheat you are. :) Si Trew (talk) 08:58, 10 May 2015 (UTC)
 * Hahah, just my luck with that Python (computer language) tool, says database connexion is down. I will continue to do it longhand, then! :) Si Trew (talk) 09:02, 10 May 2015 (UTC)
 * The "rdcheck" that I linked isn't down. Type any article into the search box, and it will list all of the redirects that target to that page. Tavix | Talk 16:22, 14 May 2015 (UTC)


 * For now this should be a redirect and nothing more until information (as least the 2016 schedule) comes out. It was created so "2016" is not redlinked on the 2015 page.  VegasCasinoKid (talk) 17:02, 10 May 2015 (UTC)
 * But it should be redlinked. There isn't any information about this season and a redlink proves this. A redirect confuses readers because they see that it is blue and assume that there is an article, but get WP:SURPRISED to find that there is not one. Tavix | Talk  23:16, 10 May 2015 (UTC)
 * Yeah, I agree with User:Tavix on this. Otherwise why not have 2016 bus fares in London or 2016 deaths, or closer to the point, 2016 English soccer season and so forth. Patently we have none of those, so why should we have this? Quod Erat Demonstrandum. Si Trew (talk) 03:18, 12 May 2015 (UTC)
 * Benjamin Franklin, evey year in his Poor Richard's Almanac, as a bit of a running joke, predicted the death of his rival almanac writer, Titus Leeds . But I think he predeceased his rival, who had the last laugh, then. Franklin did some other stuff too apparently. This is in Bryson. Made in America (book). I think, but not 100% sure. Si Trew (talk) 03:21, 12 May 2015 (UTC)
 * Is it possible to fix the article template so the redlink doesn't appear that a black link or no link appears ? The redirect in question goes to New York Yankees, not a future season.  VegasCasinoKid (talk) 11:15, 12 May 2015 (UTC)


 * I don't think anyone is disputing the target, we're discussing the redirect. amd that is what I said was WP:CRYSTAL, not the target. As Lewis Caroll wrote in Alice in Wonderland, the White Queen says, the simplest way to explain it is to do it. Sentence first, verdict afterwards. Si Trew (talk) 20:03, 12 May 2015 (UTC)
 * I have tagged the redirect for speedy deletion. It will be created later in the year when the schedule comes out then.  VegasCasinoKid (talk) 09:14, 16 May 2015 (UTC)
 * , In addition I've suppressed the link so it won't appear in the 2015 season page. VegasCasinoKid (talk) 10:10, 16 May 2015 (UTC)
 * I like the look of that page once the link is suppressed. I think it should be done to the other 29 articles too. Tavix | Talk 15:22, 16 May 2015 (UTC)
 * It's done. To restore the link when the 2016 season page is created, just remove the string "next_season=none" from the 2015 season's infoboxes.  VegasCasinoKid (talk) 16:23, 16 May 2015 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page.

K31IA
Relisted, see Redirects for discussion/Log/2015 May 18%23K31IA

Arthur Jenkins Indemnity Act 1941



 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more redirects. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the redirect's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was keep per WP:SNOW. The article clearly does discuss the Indemnity Act. There is no need for this to run the full 7 days. (non-admin closure) Ivanvector (talk) 13:56, 10 May 2015 (UTC)

Arthur Jenkins Indemnity Act 1941 → Arthur Jenkins (politician) (links · [//en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Arthur_Jenkins_Indemnity_Act_1941&action=history history] · stats)     [ Closure:  ]

The page that this article redirects to doesn't discuss the Indemnity Act. Compassionate727 (talk) 20:22, 9 May 2015 (UTC)
 * Yes it does. Mauls (talk) 20:32, 9 May 2015 (UTC)
 * Keep. Yes it does, it has a whole section on it. The Arthur Jenkins Indemnity Act 1941 went through the Lords on 10 December 1941 and through the Commons gaining Royal Assent the same day, as it says at [http::/www.millbanksytems.com] (i.e. UK parliament) and at . Quite patently this is an Act passed in law, Clement Attlee moved to pass it in the Commons on 4 December 1941, and it was duly passed. Never heard of the chap mesel, but then Orwell called Clement Attlee a hole in the air. It's still unclear to me why Jenkins needed indemnity when you thik he would be protected by parliamentary privilege, but he got it anyway. Si Trew (talk)
 * Comment'. It's not an, but the target article is quite short anyway and this is its prime content, so I don't see a great need for it to be (to section Arthur Jenkins (politician)). There was a spelling error in there as well, "loosing his seat", I doubt anyone will think it prejudicial for me to fix that. Si Trew (talk) 05:14, 10 May 2015 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page.

Sunchine State (Australia)



 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more redirects. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the redirect's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was delete. Deryck C. 22:19, 16 May 2015 (UTC)


 * Sunchine State (Australia) → Queensland (links · [//en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Sunchine_State_(Australia)&action=history history] · stats)     [ Closure:  ]

This is an extremely implausible search term because it is a typo form of the nickname of the state of Queensland, with a disambiguation qualifier added. The stats back just how implausible this is because it was only viewed 11 times in the past 90 days, which should all be background noise. To top it all off, we don't even have Sunchine state or Sunchine State. Tavix | Talk 20:12, 9 May 2015 (UTC)
 * Delete. But Sunshine State (Australia) →  Queensland, and that is the more relevant thing. surely? Why Queensland particularly should be the Sunshine State is beyond me (I suppose Sunshine Territory or Sunshine Capital Area were just a bit too clumsy) but it doesn't seem THAT odd that it would then be misspelled thus. That all being said, the hits are so low, we might as well delete it. Si Trew (talk) 04:53, 10 May 2015 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page.

Laboratoriya Kasperskovo



 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more redirects. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the redirect's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was keep. The discussion has shown that this redirect is a correct transcription of the subject's official Russian name. Deryck C. 22:18, 16 May 2015 (UTC)


 * Laboratoriya Kasperskovo → Kaspersky Lab (links · [//en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Laboratoriya_Kasperskovo&action=history history] · stats)     [ Closure:  ]

I believe this is a typo of a transliteration and an unlikely search. Pickuptha&#39;Musket (talk) 19:58, 9 May 2015 (UTC)
 * Delete. I'm not totally sure it is a typo, but WP:NOTENGLISH in any case. Si Trew (talk) 05:17, 10 May 2015 (UTC)
 * Delete The correct transliteration is "Laboratoriya Kasperskogo". - TheChampionMan1234 06:29, 10 May 2015 (UTC)
 * Hmm, what language you doing ? The endings don't agree properly, and I think we are agreed it is Not English, but is this an attempt at Ukranian or what? (Not by you, I mean by the creator.) Si Trew (talk) 09:09, 10 May 2015 (UTC)


 * Comment: I don't think it's a typo. In Russian the suffix -ого, despite being literally transliterable as -ogo, is pronounced -ovo. So I think the spelling with -ovo is a reasonable alternative transcription of the Russian name. (Note the difference between transliteration and transcription.) 109.147.41.253 (talk) 17:36, 10 May 2015 (UTC)
 * Thanks for the info. To tie it up, we do also have Laboratoriya Kasperskogo → Kaspersky Lab . (And in the translitarateration, I doubt the "i" would be in the first word.) We don't have Laboratrorya Kasperskovo or or Laboratorya Kasperskogo. The plot thins. Si Trew (talk) 01:48, 11 May 2015 (UTC)


 * Keep: People might search for transcriptions as well as transliterations. Pickuptha&#39;Musket (talk) 10:12, 11 May 2015 (UTC)
 * Keep - plausible search term, directs readers to what they're clearly looking for, no reason suggested for deletion. Wily D  10:55, 11 May 2015 (UTC)
 * The reason I suggested was WP:NOTENGLISH. I never understand why you say "No reason has been suggested" when you mean "I disagree with the reason that has been suggested". I patently did suggest a reason for deletion. Now, it may be (it seems) that others disagree with that reason, but to say no reason was suggested, is just wrong. Si Trew (talk) 19:50, 11 May 2015 (UTC)


 * Keep target is a Russian company, so a viable transcription of the Russian name -- 65.94.43.89 (talk) 04:47, 13 May 2015 (UTC)
 * it's the "I" at the back end I am troubled about. No problem keeping them as native names, and we can mark or whatever, but that the "I" just somehow sticks in my gullet, I don't know why, but one wouldn't normally transliterate/transcribe it that way, would one? We don't have it without the I though. Si Trew (talk) 13:39, 14 May 2015 (UTC)
 * Nevertheless, our article uses the "i" in the intro sentence for "Лаборатория", as does google translate; and TCM1234 above. If you try Ukrainian in google translate, you get "Laboratoryya" while Serbian results in "Laboratoriâ" -- 65.94.43.89 (talk) 14:31, 14 May 2015 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page.

Shields, Pennsylvania



 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more redirects. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the redirect's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was no consensus. Per WP:NGEO, this place is "presumed to be notable", but that's very different from saying we'll have a decent article on it any time soon. It's a great example of how a topic can be both notable and obscure. The nominator's initial concern was addressed, and either keeping or deleting would be within policy. As such, there's no consensus, defaulting to keep. --BDD (talk) 21:32, 17 May 2015 (UTC)


 * Shields, Pennsylvania → Leetsdale, Pennsylvania (links · [//en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Shields,_Pennsylvania&action=history history] · stats)     [ Closure:  ]

Delete per WP:REDLINK since its target article doesn't mention this redirect. Per the redirect's creator, this is a former town that was in the target subject's geographical area, so an article being created seems likely and possible. Steel1943 (talk) 21:21, 1 May 2015 (UTC)

Keep I added the reference to Shields in the target article, per your demand. There are several sources to Shields (a former town) being a populated place within Leetsdale Borough, including this one, which I noted on my redirect: http://pennsylvania.hometownlocator.com/pa/allegheny/shields.cfm. Shields, Pennsylvanis is also on the "Shields (Disambig)" page. This should be satisfactory to show the validity of this Redirect and stop your request to Delete this. Charvex (talk) 22:11, 1 May 2015 (UTC)  Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion so a clearer consensus may be reached.
 * Yep, since I have Shields (disambiguation) on my watchlist, and the fact that at the time it was not mentioned at its target, it would have been quite difficult for readers to understand why they were redirected to Leetsdale, Pennsylvania. However, this edit doesn't really address my concerns since the redirect doesn't equal the target. I'm still leaning towards WP:REDLINK being valid in this case. Steel1943  (talk) 04:08, 2 May 2015 (UTC)

Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Deryck C. 19:16, 9 May 2015 (UTC)
 * 'Comment. I am not sure how helpful this is, but we have (I think) North Shields and South Shields in the United Kingdom, so the fact a place is called "Shields" should not for that reason rule it out. However, I can think of plenty other shields in Pennyslvania, such as the buggers who play American football and baseball and stuff like that, who have emblems, so I can see this being quite ambiguous. Si Trew (talk) 09:14, 10 May 2015 (UTC)
 * And Pennsylvania is an odd place in its naming by the US Postal Service. Pittsburgh, for example, has an H at he end, which is the only place (according to the USGS, referred to above) that actually has that. (See Bryson, Made in America). It should be borough in British English, But comes from William Penn, as any fule kno. Rigght, can we get our country back now? Mayflower II is on its way. Si Trew (talk) 03:05, 11 May 2015 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page.

Octagóncito



 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more redirects. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the redirect's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was retarget to Octagoncito. This has mostly resolved independent of this discussion. There are now two articles on wrestlers by this name, Octagoncito and Octagoncito (AAA). How best to name those articles, including primary topic claims, is a question for requested moves. --BDD (talk) 13:17, 18 May 2015 (UTC)


 * Octagóncito → Octagóncito (AAA) (links · [//en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Octag%C3%B3ncito&action=history history] · stats)     [ Closure:  ]

Deletion. Basically, "Octagóncito" and "Octagóncito (AAA)" are two different professional wrestlers. It's better to have the former as a red link, encouraging for an article to be created in the future, than have it redirect to a wrong person. "Octagóncito (AAA)" was recently moved to "Octagóncito" (without discussion), creating this redirect. リボン・サルミネン (Ribbon Salminen) #GG (talk) 15:37, 30 April 2015 (UTC)
 * Move the target article over the redirect. (AAA) is a disambiguator, right? There are two wrestlers named Octagóncito? If we only have an article on one, it should be at Octagóncito, and Octagóncito (AAA) would be an ok R from unnecessary disambiguation and placeholder in case the base title Octagóncito is converted into a disambiguation page. So I think the move was correct. Pinging that editor for his thoughts. --BDD (talk) 15:48, 30 April 2015 (UTC)
 * Move per BDD unless and until an article is created on the second wrestler. Ivanvector (talk) 18:15, 30 April 2015 (UTC)
 * Move or dab per BDD and Ivanvector. Note that there was an undiscussed move of Octagóncito to Octagóncito (AAA) yesterday, performed by the nominator. Unless the other Octagóncito is discussed on Wikipedia, the addition of "(AAA)" should be reverted. Turning the redirect into a redlink is obviously undesirable. BarrelProof (talk) 19:17, 1 May 2015 (UTC)
 * Comment The nominator reverted an undiscussed move. There are tons of links here to Octagóncito that are meant for the first guy and with this redirect now link to the second guy (AAA). That was the main reason I was asking for this deletion. If someone wants to fix those, fine, but at the moment they're all wrong. リボン・サルミネン (Ribbon Salminen) #GG (talk) 09:19, 4 May 2015 (UTC)
 * Comment Well, maybe not "tons of links" (just checked). But a few. What would be the disambiguator for the first guy? リボン・サルミネン (Ribbon Salminen) #GG (talk) 09:25, 4 May 2015 (UTC)

 Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion so a clearer consensus may be reached. Relisting comment: Octagoncito and Octagóncito (AAA) are now separate articles. Relist to allow more input. Please also discuss at Talk:Octagóncito (AAA).
 * Two Comments 1, its Octagoncito, not Octagóncito. 2, Maybe, we can name them Octagoncito I and Octagoncito II. --HHH Pedrigree (talk) 11:07, 4 May 2015 (UTC)

Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Deryck C. 18:31, 9 May 2015 (UTC)
 * Perhaps if they collided in a fight we would end up with a hexdecagon. Si Trew (talk) 05:48, 10 May 2015 (UTC)
 * Hexadecagóncito. Ivanvector (talk) 14:16, 10 May 2015 (UTC)
 * You need to read Boarding House Geometry, by Stephen Leacock. section "Propositions and Posulations". "A pie may be reproduced any number of times" Si Trew (talk) 01:57, 11 May 2015 (UTC)


 * Bear with me, this is a complete mess.
 * Retarget Octagóncito → Octagoncito; tag R from misspelling (the accent is erroneous).
 * Move Octagóncito (AAA) → Octagoncito (1995). Both wrestlers wrestled in the AAA promotion, as well as both wrestling in several other promotions, but never at the same time. Disambiguating by the second wrestler's debut year is much better.
 * Retarget all of the (AAA) disambiguated redirects to Octagoncito. Disambiguation with the second wrestler occurs in the lede, but a hatnote could be added if desired.
 * Move protect every one of these pages that starts with "Octag[o|ó]ncito" for no less than six months, to put a stop to this mess.
 * The first Octagoncito is the primary topic by virtue of having appeared in a top-tier promotion (either WWF or WWE, I'm not sure) while the other seems to have only wrestled in local promotions. Also, neither wrestler spells their name with an accent. Ivanvector (talk) 14:16, 10 May 2015 (UTC)
 * No, no, protection is premature. I was casting around for Oktagonsito and so on, since in many European languages the K is not used for a soft C (i.e. soft C is S and hard C is K, and never the twain). However I couldn't find anything like that. The accent, "ó". makes it look possibly Hungarian but it patently is not. (Oktogon is a very posh square, in Budapest, kinda Piccadilly Circus but much posher, a bit sort of Arc do Triompheish). I am not sure quite what Ivanvector's argument is for the move protect, really: but in my opinion it is premature to do so. Si Trew (talk) 14:45, 10 May 2015 (UTC)
 * Really, it's the accent I have trouble with here, that's simply WP:NOTENGLISH (and I was translating French and Dutch yesterday for WP:PNT while you were all asleep, and got a couple done) but it just doesn't seem very English to me, nor even very Canadian French, so I think this is kinda a bit of a long shot. I can do the "ó" straight on my KB as it is very common in Hungarian, but this is in no way Hungarian, because of the C (which in Hungarian would be K, as I implied up above). I can also do űóüöáé for that matter. But can't get a cedilla, so that's useful when I translate from Spanish! Si Trew (talk) 02:05, 11 May 2015 (UTC)
 * Comment: It's not really an, if anything an , but since (I think we are agreed) the diacritical mark on the "ó" is erroneous in the first place, we don't need to R it like that. As for the move, not sure about that, I think it is better to stet, I see no good coming of moving them all around, but would delete the one with the diacritical mark, as harming a search. Si Trew (talk) 02:54, 12 May 2015 (UTC)
 * In Spanish, words are normally stressed on the penultimate syllable, unless an accent indicates stress elsewhere. Therefore, octagón would be correct, but forming that into the wrestlers' names requires that the accent be removed, either octagoncito or octagoncíto, though the accent over í is redundant. As such, octagóncito is literally a misspelling.
 * As for the page moves, see my second note. (AAA) is an improper disambiguator here, since both wrestlers wrestled in that promotion, so the second wrestler needs to be disambiguated some other way - I suggest by debut year. I prefer protection because it will prevent hassle from superfluous page moves. The pages could still be moved after discussion and consensus, anyway. Ivanvector (talk) 15:35, 13 May 2015 (UTC)
 * That's not correct, . Words in Spanish are generally unstressed except for the {{diacritcal mark and so they don't have a heavy on the seond, fourth, first or third. To be contrapuntal, they are completely different sounds, but in Spanish not so much. Si Trew (talk) 22:44, 13 May 2015 (UTC)
 * I endorse the first of these three steps; I don't really care about move protection at this point, but it's certainly wise if there's any further trouble. --BDD (talk) 17:14, 14 May 2015 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page.

XHCAR-TV



 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more redirects. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the redirect's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was delete both. If I understand the discussion log below correctly, Si Trew now agrees with Raymie and is carrying on the discussion to help improve the relevant articles... Trout-slap me if I'm wrong. Deryck C. 22:07, 17 May 2015 (UTC)


 * XHCAR-TV → Televisión y Radio de Campeche (links · [//en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=XHCAR-TV&action=history history] · stats)     [ Closure:  ]


 * XHESC-TV → Televisión y Radio de Campeche (links · [//en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=XHESC-TV&action=history history] · stats)     [ Closure:  ]

Permits given by the Mexican government to the state of Campeche but never actually built. Removed with the April 28, 2015 IFT list. All links to these redirects have been pulled. Raymie (t • c) 04:02, 30 April 2015 (UTC)
 * Keep for now. I'll WP:PROD the article, but I think the article should stay as a bit of history. However does not mention these callsigns. We have to take one before the other, so I think best to PROD first see what happens then sort out the R's later, obviously if the article goes, the R's go. Si Trew (talk) 21:14, 4 May 2015 (UTC)
 * I've PRODDed the target. Not mentioned there, and referred back to here. Si Trew (talk) 21:21, 4 May 2015 (UTC)
 * Thanks for the PROD, but I've removed it as TRC still has a radio station (XETEB 920) and a television station (XHCCA-4 Campeche, Camp.); it just never built these permits to expand the TV station to other cities—permits that were on the government's books for years. It can be difficult getting accurate information from Mexico, but someone I know who lives in what would have been XHCAR's service area had told me months before this removal that the stations were never built. I put an explanation on your talk page of what is happening here. Raymie (t • c) 05:28, 9 May 2015 (UTC)

 Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion so a clearer consensus may be reached. Relisting comment: To let Raymie and SimonTrew continue the discussion

Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Deryck C. 17:19, 9 May 2015 (UTC)
 * Oh thanks very much. I am sure that Raymie won't mind that I copy-paste our conversation on my talk page here into RfD. All below until my sig of 10 May is the copy:

COPY PASTE FROM MY TALK PAGE STARTS

Thanks for the prod, but the stations that were never built were expansion permits.

In the state of Campeche there are three main cities: Campeche, Ciudad del Carmen and Escárcega. These are the three cities that, really up until now, have had television stations.

TRC has one TV station on air, in Campeche (the state capital). Its permits for the other cities are the RfD. They were never built. It also has one radio station in operation, in the locality of Tenabo; while it has dropped off the IFT list, the issue is likely related to Mexico's herding of stations off of AM and onto the FM band. It is still operating.

I understand that Mexican television is a complicated beast. The RfD is for the expansion permits that would have enabled TRC to expand from one city in the state to three. TRC is not going away; in fact it has a critical authorization to convert its lone operating TV station to digital service, without which it would be gone at the end of the year. Raymie (t • c) 05:26, 9 May 2015 (UTC)

Hola. I forget what the prod was (I hope it was not a WP:PROD!) Thanks for all that info. So Mexico is doing like Britain did and turning off analogue service? I am not sure "expansion permit" is quite the right word but can't think really of an equivalent, "extended licence" (or "license") would seem more natural but there really isn't an equivalent, this is the license for the frequency i.e. airwaves, yes? Si Trew (talk) 06:48, 9 May 2015 (UTC)


 * Yep, they are going through the very convoluted digital switchover now. A few areas have already done it, mostly on the US border. The major commercial broadcasters have been putting new transmitters into service at a breakneck pace in the last six months, but the state networks are the biggest laggards.


 * These are actually permits in Mexican parlance (permits up until really recently were the noncommercial version of concessions, or as the US would call them licenses), and I call them "expansion" permits simply because the idea was to take TRC's signal and bring it to the rest of the state. Quite a few state networks only have one television station, usually in the capital city. (No muxes or Freeview-type system here because Mexico adopted the US standard.) And actually, it was a real PROD. I'm glad I caught it when I did.


 * I do pretty much all the article maintenance on television in Mexico, and I'm actually pretty knowledgeable on the topic and pretty fluent in Spanish. I did a massive rewrite-update of List of television stations in Mexico and its 32 subsidiary lists this past year, developed a new template to allow citing government sources with technical information on radio and TV stations, etc. Raymie (t • c) 07:12, 9 May 2015 (UTC)
 * And nicely done, I take my sombrero off to you. I lived in Texas, in Houston, for a couple of years so learned a bit of Mexican Spanish, but now living in Europe and my missus being in Madrid, I have to kinda re-learn Spanish Spanish. The words don't differ much but the pronunciation is different,, certainly in Madrid. I don't speak Spanish very well to start with but speak French and Latin pretty well so I kinda back translate that way, of course every now and again one gets a false friend but one just has to laugh that off. I think where it is really tricky is with technical articles, one would thin they would be relatively easy with just being full of Latin or Greek, but they can be quite hard to translate, for exactly the reason we have seen, you think how do I possibly translate "permission to broadcast" or whatever it might be. We do have Spectrum auction, but that's rather vague for the purpose of this article. Si Trew (talk) 07:47, 9 May 2015 (UTC)
 * Oh I certainly understand. A lot of technical information is either literally translated or just in English outright. For instance, Mexico is starting to think about its own repacking scheme and I'm even seeing the word repacking appear in the material. Spain is a good bit less forgiving about "Americanisms", so watch out. I've had trouble effectively translating terms back, too. A few years ago I did the Programadora article, on Colombian television history, and it's a bit rougher on the edges than what I can do now. Additionally in my support to TV DXers I had to somehow translate "equipo complementario de zona de sombra" (a term for a Mexican low-power television-relay) into something understandable. I came up with "shadow channel" which is a heavy corruption of the original term but is easy to comprehend and remember for the DXers. Raymie (t • c) 08:01, 9 May 2015 (UTC)
 * yeah that is a toughie. Umbrella zone (I realise Sombra is not rain and you don't need an umbrella in that sence, but Umbrella ult. from shadow) but the throw of the signal, the area it covers, how could one do that? I am not sure shadow channel is best, penumbra is closer but we don't have that. Signal reach is red too. Broadcast engineering is blue though, but perhaps too vague, too far away. Si Trew (talk) 08:17, 9 May 2015 (UTC)
 * Yeah, it's the same in Hungary, that a lot of things are just in English and not translated into Hungarian. I'm a liar, penumbra is blue apparently, for some reason it was red when I first edited this, but I still wouldn't recommend it, just trying to throw out suggestions so you might catch one. Si Trew (talk) 08:23, 9 May 2015 (UTC)

COPY PASTE FROM MY TALK PAGE ENDS. Si Trew (talk) 05:26, 10 May 2015 (UTC)


 * I'm not sure "Shadow channel" is really much good, it suggests a Broadcast relay station in my mind, which I don't think is your intent. Or are you talking about a sideband channel? Si Trew (talk) 05:38, 10 May 2015 (UTC)
 * Hmmm, Mexico is mentioned in Digital television transition, but with no information beyond the name of the country. Si Trew (talk) 08:12, 11 May 2015 (UTC)
 * Shadow channels are repeaters usually, with some isolated but important exceptions. Raymie (t • c) 04:33, 13 May 2015 (UTC)
 * Well, usually you need repeaters to broadcast on different frequencies, otherwise you get ringing (signal), and that is what as an electronics engineering slang you call a "shadow". On the old analogue TVs you could actually see it, I lived for many years sort of half way between Sandy Heath transmitting station and Alexandra Palace and our telly would get ghosting (television) if they went out on the same frequency. Would people think of that ghosting as a shadow, not sure: I'm quite happy to be overruled, just throwing out suggestions. Si Trew (talk) 05:59, 13 May 2015 (UTC)
 * Of course this is back in the day when one had to get up and walk three feet to the telly to change the channel. Si Trew (talk) 06:01, 13 May 2015 (UTC)
 * Shadows are not always on the same channel, though some are, depending on the spacing between stations, their (lower than was the case in the US) ERPs and (especially in rugged Mexico) terrain. The reason I went for the term shadow when I translated the equipo complementario phrase is because they were for years almost untraceable (but certainly received by DXers), given that they are not listed in most official lists from the government and it is fairly hard to get accurate technical information on them. Also the articles you mentioned had some outdated information, particularly the one on relay stations, which I've updated. Raymie (t • c) 06:42, 13 May 2015 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page.

Mafia 3
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 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more redirects. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the redirect's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was delete. Deryck C. 22:09, 16 May 2015 (UTC)


 * Mafia 3 → Mafia: The City of Lost Heaven (links · [//en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Mafia_3&action=history history] · stats)     [ Closure:  ]

Deletion per WP:CRYSTAL. Wikipedia is not a collection of unverifiable speculation. All coverage on this game is speculative with no confirmation of existence. The1337gamer (talk) 10:41, 9 May 2015 (UTC)
 * Comment I don't see why this even has a navbox Mafia series, with only two games in the series, a character list, and no series article. -- 65.94.43.89 (talk) 13:57, 9 May 2015 (UTC)
 * Delete -- 65.94.43.89 (talk) 13:57, 9 May 2015 (UTC)
 * Delete - per nomination. AdrianGamer (talk) 14:12, 9 May 2015 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page.

Grand Theft Auto VI
Relisted, see Redirects for discussion/Log/2015 May 18%23Grand Theft Auto VI

Grand Theft Auto 6
Relisted, see Redirects for discussion/Log/2015 May 18%23Grand Theft Auto 6

Everything You Can Imagine
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 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more redirects. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the redirect's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was delete. Deryck C. 22:22, 16 May 2015 (UTC)


 * Everything You Can Imagine → Usher (singer) (links · [//en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Everything_You_Can_Imagine&action=history history] · stats)     [ Closure:  ]

Apparently Usher said his newest album is "everything you can imagine", which I suspect led someone to believe that that was its title. (It doesn't seem to be, any more than it is Gonna Be Freaking Out of Here.) As a phrase, it seems more associated with a quotation of Picasso's. At the risk of sounding like sour grapes, if big fucking deal isn't worth redirecting to Joe Biden, this less prominent soundbite certainly isn't. BDD (talk) 03:36, 9 May 2015 (UTC)
 * Delete per nom, further there are many uses for this phrase of more prominence -- 65.94.43.89 (talk) 04:38, 9 May 2015 (UTC)
 * Delete: phrase not distinctive of the subject; delete per WP:RDELETE as confusing since it may lead visitors to believe that "Everything You Can Imagine" is the name of one of the subject's works, when it's just a figurative description of the work. <span style="color: #3BB9FF; font-style: italic; font-family: Lato, sans-serif'">Esquivalience t 13:49, 9 May 2015 (UTC)
 * Delete. pace Picasso, Wittgenstein said the world is everything that is the case, which is kinda the opposite. (He must have had a bigger baggage allowance than I get, then.) Si Trew (talk) 05:31, 10 May 2015 (UTC)
 * You have no idea what I can imagine. I have a good imagination. Si Trew (talk) 09:20, 10 May 2015 (UTC)
 * It's been almost a week since May the Fourth, but: "I can imagine quite a bit." --BDD (talk) 14:13, 10 May 2015 (UTC)
 * I wouldn't advise either of them to turn up at an airport these days, or Pandora with her box either, just asking for trouble. What I liked was when you had he old IATA tickets it used to list what you could take in addition, which was smoking materials, a woman's handbag, a woman's hat, a woman's overcoat, a musical instrument, two golf clubs (which two? I would choose a mashie niblick and a putter maybe), "personal effects" which was suitably vague I think probaby was supposed to mean contraceptives. I always wanted to turn up at Stansted Airport with the whole lot of them, wheel in a Grand Piano stack fiull of Durex wearing two women's hats, her coat, her handbag over me arm (weighing 20 kg as every woman's handbag does) and everthing else I could possibly manage to keep about my person, and say right says quite clearly on the ticket, taken for free. Unfortunately never got around to it. Si Trew (talk) 14:54, 10 May 2015 (UTC)


 * Delete as misleading since this phrase seems to be associated with Picasso. -- Lenticel ( talk ) 23:53, 10 May 2015 (UTC)
 * It was only me who mentioned Picasso, but sour grapes is out of the Bible somewhere isn't it? Lenticel always comes up trumps with this kind of thing. Jeremiah 31:29 and Izikeel 18:2, according to the DAB to which it redirects. Si Trew (talk) 02:15, 11 May 2015 (UTC)
 * Who was it who said There is nothing more dangerous than a man with an idea? Jerome K. Jerome? Si Trew (talk) 09:02, 11 May 2015 (UTC)
 * Delete Soundbite, not directly connected to the subject per Esquivalience's arguments. Elassint  Hi 04:06, 12 May 2015 (UTC)
 * Comment. It's not a soundbite but a literary quotation, wrong or right, Jerome K. Jerome died well before the days of the earliest radio. Si Trew (talk) 09:32, 12 May 2015 (UTC)
 * Therfrom one cannot speak, thereof one must be silent. Still leaning towards Wittgenstein. Si Trew (talk) 11:08, 12 May 2015 (UTC)
 * Rather off-topic, but as a factual correction Jerome K. Jerome died in 1927 about 5 years after the inauguration of commercial broadcast radio. Thryduulf (talk) 18:58, 13 May 2015 (UTC)
 * Oh all right. The BBC started radio broadcasts in 1922, if I recall correctly. I weren't far off though. We have a beautiful thunderstorm now, which I always love. And I love that they still do the Shipping Forecast. Viking, North Utsire, South Utsire,Forties, Cromarty, Forth, Tyne, Dogger, German Bight, round the houses we go, Thames Dover Wight Biscay (sometimes not often) Portland Plymouth right round the back Portland Plymouth Irish Sea, benbecula, Isle of Man, very occasionally, oh I forget the west coast until I get to South-East Iceland. Charlotte Green had a delightful way of reading it but unfortunately retired from doing so. Si Trew (talk) 20:57, 13 May 2015 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page.