Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2016 May 7

May 7
This is a list of redirects that have been proposed for deletion or other action on May 7, 2016.

Obstructor
Relisted, see Redirects for discussion/Log/2016 May 18%23Obstructor

Reverend Straik



 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more redirects. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the redirect's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was delete. Deryck C. 22:30, 18 May 2016 (UTC)


 * Reverend Straik → That Hideous Strength (links · [//en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Reverend_Straik&action=history history] · [//tools.wmflabs.org/pageviews#start=2016-04-07&end=2016-05-06&project=en.wikipedia.org&pages=Reverend_Straik stats])     [ Closure:  ]
 * Straik → That Hideous Strength (links · [//en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Straik&action=history history] · [//tools.wmflabs.org/pageviews#start=2016-04-08&end=2016-05-07&project=en.wikipedia.org&pages=Straik stats])     [ Closure:  ]

I am in two minds about this one. The first is it is at the target and should be } but that secion no longer exists, but it is at the target. This is a neelix redirect that I am coming so learn well that George Orwell called C. S. Lewis a catholic apologist and I am not so sure that this is as neutral as it first seems. I am just C of E which means I don't have to believe in anything. See also Redirects for discussion/Log/2016 May 8 i managed to miss by twenty minutes combinging these onto one day's listing but they are essentally the same listing and if another editor wishes to combine I have no problem with that. Si Trew (talk) 23:33, 7 May 2016 (UTC)
 * They have been combined, at your request. -- Tavix ( talk ) 18:19, 8 May 2016 (UTC)


 * Delete. There are many occurences of "straik".  Let search do its job. Shhhnotsoloud (talk) 07:44, 12 May 2016 (UTC)
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Meteoros



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 * The result of the discussion was delete. Deryck C. 22:30, 18 May 2016 (UTC)


 * Meteoros → Meteoroid (links · [//en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Meteoros&action=history history] · [//tools.wmflabs.org/pageviews#start=2016-04-07&end=2016-05-06&project=en.wikipedia.org&pages=Meteoros stats])     [ Closure:  ]

Delete. (Neelix redirect)., THis is not at the target. It might have been at one time because I can do a bit of ancient Greek when push comes to shove, but it isn't now so this is WP:RFD confusing but not confident enough to take it to CSD. Si Trew (talk) 23:16, 7 May 2016 (UTC)


 * Delete per WP:R #8. — Gorthian (talk) 17:17, 9 May 2016 (UTC)
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Stakers



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 * The result of the discussion was delete. Deryck C. 22:31, 18 May 2016 (UTC)


 * Stakers → Staking (links · [//en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Stakers&action=history history] · [//tools.wmflabs.org/pageviews#start=2016-04-07&end=2016-05-06&project=en.wikipedia.org&pages=Stakers stats])     [ Closure:  ]

(neelix redirect). I think this is rather ambiguous, the target is a DAB at which people who play poker for money lay a stake, but I amn gambling on this beiing WP:XY and probably delete. Stake is a DAB too at which poker stake is mentioned, but this is a conmmon British term for the money put down for a bet Si Trew (talk) 23:05, 7 May 2016 (UTC)


 * delete: if "Staker" was useful as anything other than the surname there'd be a note on Staker to say so. Pam  D  09:30, 8 May 2016 (UTC)
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Blockers



 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more redirects. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the redirect's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was withdrawn by nominator. (non-admin closure) -- Tavix ( talk ) 18:20, 8 May 2016 (UTC)


 * Blockers → Blocker (links · [//en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Blockers&action=history history] · [//tools.wmflabs.org/pageviews#start=2016-04-07&end=2016-05-06&project=en.wikipedia.org&pages=Blockers stats])     [ Closure:  ]

(neelix redirect) Not sure on this one. My first thought was for Beta blockers but the target, A DAB, does not mention those. it could be WP:XY I guess Si Trew (talk) 22:32, 7 May 2016 (UTC)


 * Keep as R from plural. Many of the things listed at the disambiguation page can be plural. I added beta blocker and channel blocker to the target. — Godsy (TALK CONT ) 01:32, 8 May 2016 (UTC)
 * Speedily keep/withdrawn by nominator? thanks for adding them. I would have done myself but I don't like to do so when listing something for discussion because I think it makes the discussion confusing, so thanks for doing it as kinda a second set of eyes. Si Trew (talk) 06:20, 8 May 2016 (UTC)
 * Keep: r from plural - no problem. Pam  D  09:28, 8 May 2016 (UTC)
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Unprogressiveness



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 * The result of the discussion was delete. JohnCD (talk) 11:21, 15 May 2016 (UTC)


 * Unprogressiveness → Progressive (links · [//en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Unprogressiveness&action=history history] · [//tools.wmflabs.org/pageviews#start=2016-04-07&end=2016-05-06&project=en.wikipedia.org&pages=Unprogressiveness stats])     [ Closure:  ]

Not sure about this (neelix redirect). I would suggest if it goes anywhere it goes to conservatism but that may be a bit too political for Wikipedia, not the target but to redirect it thus. Si Trew (talk) 22:28, 7 May 2016 (UTC)


 * Delete: no need for redirect from this non-word. Pam  D  09:31, 8 May 2016 (UTC)
 * Delete - Nonsense. CoffeeWithMarkets (talk) 07:22, 15 May 2016 (UTC)
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Responds



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 * The result of the discussion was delete. JohnCD (talk) 11:21, 15 May 2016 (UTC)


 * Responds → Respond (links · [//en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Responds&action=history history] · [//tools.wmflabs.org/pageviews#start=2016-04-07&end=2016-05-06&project=en.wikipedia.org&pages=Responds stats])     [ Closure:  ]

(neelix redirect) This kinda makes sense because the target is a noun and this would just be the common plural of it. But I am not sure it is what people would expect to find. I know what it is because I know everything, but I am not sure other intelligent but ignorant readers would Si Trew (talk) 22:25, 7 May 2016 (UTC)


 * Delete common dictionary word variant, would lead to overlinking. AngusWOOF ( bark  •  sniff ) 19:10, 9 May 2016 (UTC)
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Putney Debate
Relisted, see Redirects for discussion/Log/2016 May 19%23Putney Debate

Phelps and Lester
Relisted, see Redirects for discussion/Log/2016 May 19%23Phelps and Lester

Mock Orange (tree)



 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more redirects. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the redirect's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was retarget to Mock orange. JohnCD (talk) 11:28, 15 May 2016 (UTC)


 * Mock Orange (tree) → Bursaria spinosa (links · [//en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Mock_Orange_(tree)&action=history history] · [//tools.wmflabs.org/pageviews#start=2016-04-07&end=2016-05-06&project=en.wikipedia.org&pages=Mock_Orange_(tree) stats])     [ Closure:  ]

This doesn't seem to be the only tree known as mock orange. I've seen Osage Orange called that as well, and there are probably several others. user:Plantdrew, would a disambiguation page be appropriate? Or maybe redirect to an existing disambiguation page? Oiyarbepsy (talk) 20:31, 7 May 2016 (UTC)


 * It could be retargetted to the disambiguation page at mock orange, which does list several other trees. But I don't see much point in keeping it. Neelix also created Mock Orange (mulberry) (for Osage orange) on the same day, so he really ought to have seen that "(tree)" wasn't enough to fully disambiguate. "Mock Orange (mulberry)" seems utterly useless; it's not a mulberry, although it is in the mulberry family. But anybody who's aware of that relationship would likely be searching by the scientific name in the first place. Plantdrew (talk) 20:52, 7 May 2016 (UTC)

I was about to say calling Plantdrew but my cache must be well out of date. User:Peter coxhead may have something to say too. I will be an intelligent but ignorant reader when I give you my opinion. Si Trew (talk) 20:55, 7 May 2016 (UTC)
 * Can't we just retarget as or whatever I forget to the DAB at Mock Orange which lists several species/genera? To be honest as an intelligent  but ignorant reader I was expecting it to be a paint colour like Magnolia. Does that make any sense User:Plantdrew)? Si Trew (talk) 21:00, 7 May 2016 (UTC)
 * Sure. R from incomplete disambiguation would probably be the most appropriate redirect template. Plantdrew (talk) 21:28, 7 May 2016 (UTC)
 * That's the one I meant just in the middle of Neelix redirects one's mind goes a little crazy. Do you want User:Plantdrew to withdraw this and I shall do the homework? Si Trew (talk) 22:17, 7 May 2016 (UTC)


 * Retarget to Mock orange. Peter coxhead (talk) 09:05, 9 May 2016 (UTC)
 * Retarget per Peter coxhead to Mock Orange as {{tlx|R from unecessary disambiguation]]. Si Trew (talk) 00:12, 10 May 2016 (UTC)
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Palmed



 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more redirects. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the redirect's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was soft delete (no quorum + Neelix injunction) --Deryck C. 08:50, 19 May 2016 (UTC)


 * Palmed → Palming (links · [//en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Palmed&action=history history] · [//tools.wmflabs.org/pageviews#start=2016-04-07&end=2016-05-06&project=en.wikipedia.org&pages=Palmed stats])     [ Closure:  ]

I'm well aware what palming is as I do it a lot myself as a joke (I am quite good at it) but I wondered whether this is really a good place to put palmed or whether this is WP:XY. There are lots of other things that can be palmed, palms for example. I am probably wrong on this but I am not confident to take it straight to CSD WP:G6 neelix concession, if in doubt give RfD a shout Si Trew (talk) 19:55, 7 May 2016 (UTC)
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Crossdresses



 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more redirects. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the redirect's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was keep. The discussion below seems to have shown that "crossdress[es


 * Crossdresses → Cross-dressing (links · [//en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Crossdresses&action=history history] · [//tools.wmflabs.org/pageviews#start=2016-04-07&end=2016-05-06&project=en.wikipedia.org&pages=Crossdresses stats])     [ Closure:  ]

(neelix redirect) There are lots of these. I boldly labelled some as etc  but can we have it without the hyphen is that legit? There is Crossdressed and so on. No problem with cross-dressed (another Neelix) I will mark that as R from verb but I am just wondering if it is valid without the hyphen consindering that the target always uses the hyphen. Si Trew (talk) 19:51, 7 May 2016 (UTC)


 * Comment Leaving out the hyphen or replacing it with a space has shown up on multiple news articles and books. AngusWOOF ( bark  •  sniff ) 01:27, 10 May 2016 (UTC)


 * Keep - There doesn't seem to be any strict rules as to which to prefer. "X cross-dresses every Tuesday", "X crossdresses every Tuesday", and "X cross dresses every Tuesday" are all valid wordings. Even if there were general guidelines as such, they'd still be helpful redirects anyways. CoffeeWithMarkets (talk) 08:29, 11 May 2016 (UTC)
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Wealthier



 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more redirects. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the redirect's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was delete. JohnCD (talk) 11:20, 15 May 2016 (UTC)


 * Wealthier → Wealth (links · [//en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wealthier&action=history history] · [//tools.wmflabs.org/pageviews#start=2016-04-07&end=2016-05-06&project=en.wikipedia.org&pages=Wealthier stats])     [ Closure:  ]

(neelix redirect) while patently a valid word I am not sure that this is really a kinda well it can be but dunno. We all know what it means but does it make any sense to redirect it simply to wealth? I dunno Si Trew (talk) 19:46, 7 May 2016 (UTC)
 * Delete - this seems pointless. Lady  of  Shalott  20:46, 8 May 2016 (UTC)
 * Delete Unless there's a corporation named Wealthier, this isn't a likely search term, and would result in an overlink to a common dictionary word "wealth". AngusWOOF ( bark  •  sniff ) 19:09, 9 May 2016 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page.

Affluences
<div class="boilerplate rfd vfd xfd-closed" style="background:#FFEEDD; margin-top:0.5em; padding:0 10px 0 10px; border:1px solid #888888;">


 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more redirects. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the redirect's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was speedily deleted by User:Anthony Bradbury (non-admin closure) by Si Trew (talk) 23:53, 7 May 2016 (UTC). As a closing note I did not ask for CSD on this one


 * Affluences → Wealth (links · [//en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Affluences&action=history history] · [//tools.wmflabs.org/pageviews#start=2016-04-07&end=2016-05-06&project=en.wikipedia.org&pages=Affluences stats])     [ Closure:  ]

(Neelix redirect) We have Affluence I think so I am not sure on this one. Affluences would not really be a word I think, You can't say I affluence, he affluences, and surely affluence is a concept noun that you can't pluralize like that. But not 100% sure, I imagine that in some paper people wrote of James Goldsmith and Warren Buffet "their individual affluences amounted to..." or some such. Is it a word? Si Trew (talk) 19:41, 7 May 2016 (UTC)
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<span id="Orsino (play)">Orsino (play)
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 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more redirects. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the redirect's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was withdrawn. --BDD (talk) 13:53, 9 May 2016 (UTC)


 * <span id="Orsino (play)">Orsino (play) → Romain Rolland (links · [//en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Orsino_(play)&action=history history] · [//tools.wmflabs.org/pageviews#start=2016-04-07&end=2016-05-06&project=en.wikipedia.org&pages=Orsino_(play) stats])     [ Closure:  ]

Declined at CSD by User:Hullaballoo Wolfowitz with the explanation "another content issue dressed up as a speedy nom". I must admit I don't understand the explanation of that decline because it is nothing to do with a content issue but a WP:G6 neelix concession redirect under WP:G6 neelix concession as any admin at CSD knows full well. No problem with the content, it is the redirect there is a problem with, so I don't see where content comes into it. I imagine the admin User:Hullaballoo Wolfowitz will be happy to explain at RfD why it is a content issue. Si Trew (talk) 19:27, 7 May 2016 (UTC)
 * Keep This is an appropriate redirect as Orsino (play) is a work of Romain Rolland and this redirect points to a Bibliography on his article. You know, not every redirect created by Neelix is inaccurate, some are valid and appropriate. Liz  <sup style="font-family:Times New Roman;"><b style="color:#006400;">Read!</b> <b style="color:#006400;">Talk!</b> 18:15, 8 May 2016 (UTC)
 * Keep – Seems like an appropriate redirect, per . – nyuszika7h (talk) 18:50, 8 May 2016 (UTC)
 * Keep - I don't care who created it; it's a valid search term and points to the right page. Lady  of  Shalott  20:38, 8 May 2016 (UTC)
 * Speedily keep as withdrawn by nominator. I list at RfD if I am not sure and has hit the nail on the thumb with this one. Patently the consensus is to keep so I withdraw my um wossname. Tennyson wasn't it, the Lady of Shallott? Although I prefer Betjeman The heart of Thomas Hardy died away in the night, as frost will blacken a Dahlia.Si Trew (talk) 07:48, 9 May 2016 (UTC)
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Frances Alan
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 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more redirects. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the redirect's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was withdrawn by nominator. (non-admin closure) -- Tavix ( talk ) 20:47, 8 May 2016 (UTC)


 * Frances Alan → Frances Allen (links · [//en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Frances_Alan&action=history history] · [//tools.wmflabs.org/pageviews#start=2016-04-07&end=2016-05-06&project=en.wikipedia.org&pages=Frances_Alan stats])     [ Closure:  ]

(Neelix redirect) Not sure about this one. There are lots of others to Francis Allen and Frances Allen and so on that neelix made, some of which I have taken to CSD and others of which I have taken as. (Note we have I think articles for Francis Alan and Frances Alan or something, so these are already going to be a bit confusing, I am taking the line of reasoning thus, that Frances is a woman and Francis is a bloke, and I don't mind a misspelling but since this is kinda two mispellings in one should probably go. Target is a DAB.) Si Trew (talk) 06:49, 7 May 2016 (UTC)

Keep, your nomination is partially misleading, you have linked to articles you 'think' we have for Francis Alan and Frances Alan, but a quick click shows the first is a redirect to Francis Allen dab and the second is actually the title you're nominating. You might want to strike that part of your nomination. Boleyn (talk) 08:35, 7 May 2016 (UTC)

I think you also need to strike out your last sentence about it being 'kinda two misspellings', it is one. This is a redirect from Frances Alan to Frances Allen, the first names are exactly the same, both the female version, and the surname is a slightly different spelling but exact same pronunciation. The dab also gives a link to the male version of the name, which would help readers. I'm not seeing any problem here that deletion could solve. Boleyn (talk) 08:50, 7 May 2016 (UTC)
 * Speedily keep withdrawn by nominator. If there is any doubt we keep it. I list stacks of "Neelix redirects" at CSD and it is only if in doubt that I bring them here. Thanks and apologies to User:Boleyn who I rather spoiled the user page earlier cos my keyboard broke and I wanted to quickly reply to agree with Boleyn, rather than it looking like ignorance or nonchalance or malice, now I have a new keyboard so I am sorry for rather bodging what I said on that user's page (not their talk page) but I was really struggling to say anything (internet also dropped about five times as I was trying to compose it from a tablet thingy.) Si Trew (talk) 19:31, 7 May 2016 (UTC)

No problem at all,, thanks for your hard work. Boleyn (talk) 19:39, 7 May 2016 (UTC)
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Rain cake
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 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more redirects. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the redirect's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was withdrawn by nominator. (non-admin closure) -- Tavix ( talk ) 20:51, 8 May 2016 (UTC)


 * Rain cake → Bolinho de chuva (links · [//en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Rain_cake&action=history history] · [//tools.wmflabs.org/pageviews#start=2016-04-07&end=2016-05-06&project=en.wikipedia.org&pages=Rain_cake stats])     [ Closure:  ]

This is a neelix creation. While in the lede as a translation although not marked as such, it doesn't really say much to an English speaking audience I think. THere is also Rain cakes which if I forget to combine is by same reason. I think this is nonsense in English. Si Trew (talk) 05:04, 7 May 2016 (UTC)


 * Keep Searching "rain cakes" brought up three sources attesting to rain cakes as the English version of the name. I've added the sources (article was totally unsourced) and expanded the article. Search also brought up a completely different japanese dish called raindrop cakes and a commercially available purple rain cake but I think these are different enough names a DAB is not required. Legacypac (talk) 06:08, 7 May 2016 (UTC)
 * Righty ho speedily keep per Legacypac Withdrawn by nominator. The closing admin should probably put on . Please don't forget which is the same reason. Si Trew (talk) 06:28, 7 May 2016 (UTC)
 * Rain cakes was deleted by User:Anthony Bradbury who was probably as bored as I was going through the Anomie list, and I thank him for his hard work and patience deleting a lot (not this one though) that I listed over at CSD. Si Trew (talk) 06:29, 8 May 2016 (UTC)
 * Unfortunately the creator of all these redirects felt it reasonable to create them in both singular and plural forms; and in the case of verbs in a variety of tenses. Hence I retained "rain cake" while deleting "rain cakes".--<b style="color:red;">Anthony Bradbury</b><sup style="color:black;">"talk" 09:45, 8 May 2016 (UTC)
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Trichuris campanula
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 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more redirects. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the redirect's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was delete. JohnCD (talk) 11:19, 15 May 2016 (UTC)


 * Trichuris campanula → Trichuris (links · [//en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Trichuris_campanula&action=history history] · [//tools.wmflabs.org/pageviews#start=2016-04-07&end=2016-05-06&project=en.wikipedia.org&pages=Trichuris_campanula stats])     [ Closure:  ]

Recommend red link to encourage an article. Oiyarbepsy (talk) 03:23, 7 May 2016 (UTC)

Delete if Plantdrew says so it must be true because that user knows his or her taxonomy better than I do or almost anyone else here at RfD, pinging User:Peter coxhead for a final check. Nothing to do with campanula as the nice flowers/plants in the garden. I think this can beWP:SNOW. Si Trew (talk) 23:10, 9 May 2016 (UTC)
 * Delete; better to have a red link to encourage article creation. Plantdrew (talk) 21:41, 7 May 2016 (UTC)
 * Delete as per nom CoffeeWithMarkets (talk) 05:08, 8 May 2016 (UTC)
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Almeron
Relisted, see Redirects for discussion/Log/2016 May 19%23Almeron

<span id="Elizabeth Hastings (benefactress)">Elizabeth Hastings (benefactress)
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 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more redirects. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the redirect's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was delete. JohnCD (talk) 11:18, 15 May 2016 (UTC)


 * <span id="Elizabeth Hastings (benefactress)">Elizabeth Hastings (benefactress) → Lady Betty (links · [//en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Elizabeth_Hastings_(benefactress)&action=history history] · [//tools.wmflabs.org/pageviews#start=2016-04-07&end=2016-05-06&project=en.wikipedia.org&pages=Elizabeth_Hastings_(benefactress) stats])     [ Closure:  ]

(neelix redirect) THis is a bit weird. I have no idea why Neelix created it but a woman benefactor who gives some money to something is a benefatrice or benefatrix depending on whether it comes straight from Latin of via French as any fule kno. Listing here because it seems nonsense to me but there might be a reason for it. Have done about fifty on the Neelix list tonight Si Trew (talk) 00:08, 7 May 2016 (UTC)
 * Delete her actual name, disambigated with a fake word, makes a lousy redirect. Legacypac (talk) 00:48, 7 May 2016 (UTC)
 * I will bet you why. Because in the article Françoise-Louise de Warens it says she is a benefactress, and I bet it goes through rather a short-circuit that Neelix then created loads more benefactresses. I get there because there are loads of nonsense Neelix redirects such as which would be a bit like having a redirect from Simon to I dunno Simon Parker or Simon Templar. Have can will worms. Si Trew (talk) 06:54, 7 May 2016 (UTC)
 * ANd to nobody's surprise has been speedily deleted, mirabile dictu ahem Virgil wonderful to tell,  by User:Peridon. Il faut marcher, Napoleon said, minden nap sorry maygar aussi jour il faut marcher step by step day by day we march (I don't think walk would be a good translation there). And how many languages can I pack into one sentence, I have the talent of putting the maximum number of words into the minimum amount of thought. Si Trew (talk) 22:42, 7 May 2016 (UTC)


 * Delete We already have Elizabeth Hastings (philanthropist) which doesn't suffer from the gender-based disambiguation. If someone's going to disambiguate they will likely enter that or Lady Betty already. <strong style="color:#606060;">AngusWOOF ( bark  •  sniff ) 23:34, 9 May 2016 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page.