Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2016 October 18

October 18
This is a list of redirects that have been proposed for deletion or other action on October 18, 2016.

Brian kelly album redirects
Relisted, see Redirects for discussion/Log/2016 October 29%23Brian kelly album redirects

Template:PD-Soviet

 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more redirects. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the redirect's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was restore Template:PD-USSR and mark as historical; retarget the other three to Template:PD-USSR. -- Tavix ( talk ) 01:50, 27 October 2016 (UTC)

Copyvios are not in the public domain. Also, copyvio is not the right way to claim that images violate copyright. P p p er y 20:39, 8 October 2016 (UTC)  Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
 * Template:PD-Soviet → Template:Copyvio (links · [//en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Template:PD-Soviet&action=history history] · [//tools.wmflabs.org/pageviews?start=2016-09-08&end=2016-10-07&project=en.wikipedia.org&pages=Template%3APD-Soviet stats])     [ Closure:  ]
 * Template:Sovietpd-text ‎ → Template:Copyvio (links · [//en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Template:Sovietpd-text&action=history history] · [//tools.wmflabs.org/pageviews?start=2016-09-08&end=2016-10-07&project=en.wikipedia.org&pages=Template%3ASovietpd-text stats])     [ Closure:  ]
 * Template:SovietPD ‎ → Template:Copyvio (links · [//en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Template:SovietPD&action=history history] · [//tools.wmflabs.org/pageviews?start=2016-09-08&end=2016-10-07&project=en.wikipedia.org&pages=Template%3ASovietPD stats])     [ Closure:  ]
 * Template:PD-USSR ‎ → Template:Copyvio (links · [//en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Template:PD-USSR&action=history history] · [//tools.wmflabs.org/pageviews?start=2016-09-08&end=2016-10-07&project=en.wikipedia.org&pages=Template%3APD-USSR stats])     [ Closure:  ]
 * Restore and mark as historical. It seems like these templates were the subject of a long debate back in 2006, as evidenced by the talk page at Template talk:PD-USSR as well the histories of the redirects. Seeing how many old talk page archives link to the relevant talk pages, we shouldn't be breaking these links, but instead providing the context for why those links existed in the first place. Mark them historical to avoid confusion and preserve the history of the debate. Patar knight - chat/contributions 00:42, 9 October 2016 (UTC)
 * Weak Keep or possibly restore since this is a particular case of wanting to preserve a bunch of discussions... although... I'm really not sure about this. CoffeeWithMarkets (talk) 07:57, 16 October 2016 (UTC)

Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, BDD (talk) 20:45, 18 October 2016 (UTC)
 * Restore as historical - they are from very old wikitimes. - üser:Altenmann >t 02:38, 22 October 2016 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page.

Appelsína

 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more redirects. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the redirect's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was delete. -- Tavix ( talk ) 02:16, 27 October 2016 (UTC)


 * Appelsína → Orange (fruit) (links · [//en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Appels%C3%ADna&action=history history] · [//tools.wmflabs.org/pageviews?start=2016-09-08&end=2016-10-07&project=en.wikipedia.org&pages=Appels%C3%ADna stats])     [ Closure:  ]

I never thought I'd post here again since I have left Wikipedia a long time ago, but this needs to go. Because Wikipedia is not a dictionary. In fact if I could speedy delete it I would, but I can't since the redirect is a decade old. Blaze The Movie Fan (talk) 13:40, 8 October 2016 (UTC)


 * Delete: WP:FORRED should become a CSD criterion, and WP:R3 should not be limited to "recently created" redirects. We've had this discussion for ages, and I feel like it has to be changed some time. - Champion (talk) (contribs) (Formerly TheChampionMan1234) 02:58, 9 October 2016 (UTC)
 * Comment. Champion started just such a discussion at Wikipedia_talk:Criteria_for_speedy_deletion. Si Trew (talk) 11:12, 11 October 2016 (UTC)
 * Keep "Not a dictionary" means that articles shouldn't be written to define words. I don't see any reason not to allow navigational aids based on foreign words.  If the redirect causes ambiguity, that's different, of course. --Trovatore (talk) 04:02, 9 October 2016 (UTC)
 * Wikipedia does have navigational aids based on foreign words. They are called Interlanguage links: redirects are not a substitute for those. We have to assume some basic reader competence, e.g. that an Elbonian speaker will look up an Elbonian-language term at Elbonian Wikipedia. But even if they do look it up first at English Wikipedia, they are probably served just as well if not better by search results, especially because definitions of words seldom have a one-to-one mapping between languages, or that other WPs place different emphasis on what is a WP:PRIMARYTOPIC.
 * The problem is not just one of ambiguity but how different languages organise their WPs; what they consider "primary" and so on. For example the common word "orange" in Hungarian is narancs for both the fruit and the colour. Now, as it happens, hu:narancs is not a DAB (there isn't one, nor an article about the colour) but an article which links to English en:Citrus_×_sinensis, because English has an article about the fruit and a separate one about the plant, but HU:WP doesn't. Let's suppose we had narancs in English Wikipedia to "make it easy" for Hungarians: should it go to Orange (fruit) or Citrus_×_sinensis or Orange (colour) or the DAB at orange which includes meanings like War of the Oranges (hu:Narancsok háborúja) or for that matter Magyar Narancs?
 * These problems are avoided by not having the redirects, per WP:XY, and letting search do it. And orange and narancs are cognates so making those decisions would probably be relatively easy compared to the general case. Si Trew (talk) 11:12, 11 October 2016 (UTC)


 * Note: the term is mentioned among many others in the Etymology section of the target, but it is the only one to also have a redirect. – Uanfala (talk) 10:06, 9 October 2016 (UTC)
 * Weak keep. Variants of this term are discussed in the etymology section. I should also mention that the current target is actually Orange (fruit), and not the Orange disambiguation page. -- Notecardforfree (talk) 18:00, 9 October 2016 (UTC)
 * Delete They'll be better found via a search. In particular this is WP:RFD confusing because, pace User:Uanfala, the term is not actually at the target, but the etymology lists similar cognates such as Low German Apfelsine and Dutch appelsien. It also has a in the lede. Actually some examples are in the fruit article that are not in the word article, which is a bit weird; they should probably be moved over. (Narancs is in neither.) We don't need to invoke WP:NOTDIC here, but since there is explicitly no affinity to German (the words are not cognate) so it is even more baffling, it would be like redirecting not a cat to dog just because Baldrick defined it thus. Si Trew (talk) 11:23, 11 October 2016 (UTC)
 * Comment I've boldly changed it the target in the nom (I checked, the R has always directed to the fruit. No changes have been made to the target since this listing, either.) Si Trew (talk) 11:12, 11 October 2016 (UTC)

 Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.

Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, BDD (talk) 20:45, 18 October 2016 (UTC)
 * delete - no English-language usage (as could have been with culture-specific terms like 'pierogi'). - üser:Altenmann >t 02:42, 22 October 2016 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page.

Hopper 7

 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more redirects. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the redirect's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was delete. -- Tavix ( talk ) 16:07, 29 October 2016 (UTC)


 * Hopper 7 → Killer7 (links · [//en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Hopper_7&action=history history] · [//tools.wmflabs.org/pageviews?start=2016-09-11&end=2016-10-10&project=en.wikipedia.org&pages=Hopper_7 stats])     [ Closure:  ]

Not mentioned in article. This was my first search result, this was the first result related to the article topic. SST flyer  09:59, 11 October 2016 (UTC)
 * Keep Hopper 7 is an unlock able level in Killer 7.  All the best: Rich Farmbrough, 20:16, 11 October 2016 (UTC).

 Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.

Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, — Godsy (TALK CONT ) 20:42, 18 October 2016 (UTC)
 * Delete as not mentioned in article, people who do search for this would not be helped at all. If they don't know what this is, they will be disappointed. -  C HAMPION  (talk) (contributions) (logs) 09:27, 19 October 2016 (UTC)
 * Weak delete It's mentioned briefly at the bottom of Gameplay but seems to be just some name of a re-decorated level that is unlockable after completing other levels. It doesn't seem to be that notable, like the cow level. But I'd like to see news articles that cover the significance of this. AngusWOOF ( bark  •  sniff ) 14:57, 19 October 2016 (UTC)
 * Weak delete - I don't see this as particularly useful either. CoffeeWithMarkets (talk) 09:38, 28 October 2016 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page.

Microsoft China

 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more redirects. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the redirect's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was delete. -- Tavix ( talk ) 02:19, 27 October 2016 (UTC)


 * Microsoft China → MSN China (links · [//en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Microsoft_China&action=history history] · [//tools.wmflabs.org/pageviews?start=2016-09-11&end=2016-10-10&project=en.wikipedia.org&pages=Microsoft_China stats])     [ Closure:  ]

Not the same topic, clearly misleading for Microsoft's operations in China are not restricted to MSN. We have Google China, for example, so WP:REDLINK delete. - Champion (talk) (contribs) (Formerly TheChampionMan1234) 09:54, 11 October 2016 (UTC)


 * The difference is that there is an entity called Google China. The nearest I can find is "Microsoft (China) Co., Ltd".  Perhaps both should re-target to subsidiaries of Microsoft?  All the best: Rich Farmbrough, 22:11, 14 October 2016 (UTC).

 Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.

Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, — Godsy (TALK CONT ) 20:38, 18 October 2016 (UTC)
 * Delete - I'd rather that we just be rid of this. CoffeeWithMarkets (talk) 18:34, 19 October 2016 (UTC)
 * Delete - delete as misleading. - üser:Altenmann >t 02:43, 22 October 2016 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page.

Hindu Democrats
<div class="boilerplate rfd vfd xfd-closed" style="background:#FFEEDD; margin-top:0.5em; padding:0 10px 0 10px; border:1px solid #888888;">
 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more redirects. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the redirect's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was delete. -- Tavix ( talk ) 01:42, 27 October 2016 (UTC)


 * Hindu Democrats → Democratic Party (United States) (links · [//en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Hindu_Democrats&action=history history] · [//tools.wmflabs.org/pageviews?start=2016-09-18&end=2016-10-17&project=en.wikipedia.org&pages=Hindu_Democrats stats])     [ Closure:  ]

Not mentioned at the target article or anywhere else. BDD (talk) 19:58, 18 October 2016 (UTC)


 * Delete WP:XY. <strong style="color:#606060;">AngusWOOF ( bark  •  sniff ) 20:22, 18 October 2016 (UTC)
 * Delete. There appears to be no party containing both the words "Hindu" and "democrat" (or forms thereof) that I can find, although there is/was a proposal for one in Nepal it is nowhere near notability. Thryduulf (talk) 11:54, 20 October 2016 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page.

Sports notability
<div class="boilerplate rfd vfd xfd-closed" style="background:#FFEEDD; margin-top:0.5em; padding:0 10px 0 10px; border:1px solid #888888;">
 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more redirects. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the redirect's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was delete. -- Tavix ( talk ) 16:05, 29 October 2016 (UTC)


 * Sports notability → Wikipedia:Notability (sports) (links · [//en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Sports_notability&action=history history] · [//tools.wmflabs.org/pageviews?start=2016-09-18&end=2016-10-17&project=en.wikipedia.org&pages=Sports_notability stats])     [ Closure:  ]

Delete per WP:R No. 6: Newly-created cross-namespace redirect to WP namespace. No reason an exception would be needed here. —Bagumba (talk) 18:02, 18 October 2016 (UTC)

Keep Per WP:CHEAP I believe it is quicker and less work to just type in sports notability. This is especially useful to individuals who are new to wikipedia or new to this portion of wiki. BlackAmerican (talk) 18:50, 18 October 2016 (UTC)
 * Delete. The argument about cross-namespace redirects being useful for new users is a valid one, but it only really works for targets that will be of use for people who have not yet learned about namespaces. Specific notability criteria are at least one or two steps beyond that level. Arguments about being quicker and easier to type have generally been rejected in the past absent other reasons to keep. Thryduulf (talk) 11:57, 20 October 2016 (UTC)
 * Delete - per above and WP:CNSR. — Godsy (TALK<sub style="margin-left:-2.0ex;"> CONT ) 03:01, 27 October 2016 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page.

Donnold Trump
<div class="boilerplate rfd vfd xfd-closed" style="background:#FFEEDD; margin-top:0.5em; padding:0 10px 0 10px; border:1px solid #888888;">
 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more redirects. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the redirect's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was delete. -- Tavix ( talk ) 01:41, 27 October 2016 (UTC)


 * Donnold Trump → Donald Trump (links · [//en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Donnold_Trump&action=history history] · [//tools.wmflabs.org/pageviews?start=2016-09-18&end=2016-10-17&project=en.wikipedia.org&pages=Donnold_Trump stats])     [ Closure:  ]

Implausible typo, for there is no such spelling variation. - Champion (talk) (contribs) (Formerly TheChampionMan1234) 04:31, 18 October 2016 (UTC)


 * Delete - Typo-based redirects are often helpful, but I don't think that this specifically is useful. CoffeeWithMarkets (talk) 17:16, 18 October 2016 (UTC)
 * Delete per nom. What's next? Don Trump? <strong style="color:#606060;">AngusWOOF ( bark  •  sniff ) 20:23, 18 October 2016 (UTC)
 * Just as an FYI, Don Trump is his son. -- Tavix ( talk ) 20:25, 18 October 2016 (UTC)
 * Cool, just like Ron Reagan. <strong style="color:#606060;">AngusWOOF ( bark  •  sniff ) 20:30, 18 October 2016 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page.

Hillary-Rodham-Clinton
<div class="boilerplate rfd vfd xfd-closed" style="background:#FFEEDD; margin-top:0.5em; padding:0 10px 0 10px; border:1px solid #888888;">
 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more redirects. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the redirect's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was delete. -- Tavix ( talk ) 01:38, 27 October 2016 (UTC)


 * Hillary-Rodham-Clinton → Hillary Clinton (links · [//en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Hillary-Rodham-Clinton&action=history history] · [//tools.wmflabs.org/pageviews?start=2016-09-18&end=2016-10-17&project=en.wikipedia.org&pages=Hillary-Rodham-Clinton stats])     [ Closure:  ]

Unlikely spelling, not plausible. - Champion (talk) (contribs) (Formerly TheChampionMan1234) 04:24, 18 October 2016 (UTC)
 * Delete - I don't think people will search this way. Deletion appears to be the right move. CoffeeWithMarkets (talk) 17:55, 18 October 2016 (UTC)
 * Delete - Overkill-TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 19:52, 18 October 2016 (UTC)
 * Delete per nom. <strong style="color:#606060;">AngusWOOF ( bark  •  sniff ) 20:19, 18 October 2016 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page.

Hillary Rodman
<div class="boilerplate rfd vfd xfd-closed" style="background:#FFEEDD; margin-top:0.5em; padding:0 10px 0 10px; border:1px solid #888888;">
 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more redirects. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the redirect's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was delete. -- Tavix ( talk ) 01:37, 27 October 2016 (UTC)


 * Hillary Rodman → Hillary Clinton (links · [//en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Hillary_Rodman&action=history history] · [//tools.wmflabs.org/pageviews?start=2016-09-18&end=2016-10-17&project=en.wikipedia.org&pages=Hillary_Rodman stats])     [ Closure:  ]

Not a valid synonym, misleading as there are people with this name. - Champion (talk) (contribs) (Formerly TheChampionMan1234) 04:23, 18 October 2016 (UTC)
 * Delete inappropriate redirect from a misspelling.--TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 20:59, 18 October 2016 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page.

H. Clinton
Relisted, see Redirects for discussion/Log/2016 October 27%23H. Clinton

HillaryRodhamClinton
<div class="boilerplate rfd vfd xfd-closed" style="background:#FFEEDD; margin-top:0.5em; padding:0 10px 0 10px; border:1px solid #888888;">
 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more redirects. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the redirect's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was delete. -- Tavix ( talk ) 01:36, 27 October 2016 (UTC)


 * HillaryRodhamClinton → Hillary Clinton (links · [//en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=HillaryRodhamClinton&action=history history] · [//tools.wmflabs.org/pageviews?start=2016-09-18&end=2016-10-17&project=en.wikipedia.org&pages=HillaryRodhamClinton stats])     [ Closure:  ]
 * HilaryRodhamClinton → Hillary Clinton (links · [//en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=HilaryRodhamClinton&action=history history] · [//tools.wmflabs.org/pageviews?start=2016-09-18&end=2016-10-17&project=en.wikipedia.org&pages=HilaryRodhamClinton stats])     [ Closure:  ]

Not a valid CamelCase redirect. - Champion (talk) (contribs) (Formerly TheChampionMan1234) 04:16, 18 October 2016 (UTC)


 * Delete per nom. <strong style="color:#606060;">AngusWOOF ( bark  •  sniff ) 20:21, 18 October 2016 (UTC)
 * Delete not a searchable term. - üser:Altenmann >t 02:44, 22 October 2016 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page.

George W. Bush, 43rd President of the United States
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 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more redirects. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the redirect's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was keep. -- Tavix ( talk ) 01:32, 27 October 2016 (UTC)


 * <span id="George W. Bush, 43rd President of the United States">George W. Bush, 43rd President of the United States → George W. Bush (links · [//en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=George_W._Bush,_43rd_President_of_the_United_States&action=history history] · [//tools.wmflabs.org/pageviews?start=2016-09-18&end=2016-10-17&project=en.wikipedia.org&pages=George_W._Bush%2C_43rd_President_of_the_United_States stats])     [ Closure:  ]

Implausible search term, combination of two. - Champion (talk) (contribs) (Formerly TheChampionMan1234) 04:14, 18 October 2016 (UTC)


 * Delete per nom. Unnecessary disambiguation. Someone typing in George W. Bush will get to the article. <strong style="color:#606060;">AngusWOOF ( bark  •  sniff ) 20:24, 18 October 2016 (UTC)
 * Weak Keep. This is somewhat plausible as an attempt to search specifically for the 43rd President of the United States as opposed to the 41st. The elder Bush is less often referred to by his middle initials, so a searcher may not know them. 64.105.98.115 (talk) 22:15, 18 October 2016 (UTC)
 * Keep' as harmless. It's not the most plausible search term, but it is neither incorrect nor ambiguous and (unlikely the edit summary used for creation I've just had to hide) it's not offensive or otherwise problematic. Thryduulf (talk) 12:02, 20 October 2016 (UTC)
 * Keep' as harmless. - üser:Altenmann >t 02:44, 22 October 2016 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page.

2004 Republican Presidential Nominee
Relisted, see Redirects for discussion/Log/2016 October 27%232004 Republican Presidential Nominee

Barack Hussein
<div class="boilerplate rfd vfd xfd-closed" style="background:#FFEEDD; margin-top:0.5em; padding:0 10px 0 10px; border:1px solid #888888;">
 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more redirects. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the redirect's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was keep. (non-admin closure) —  Godsy (TALK<sub style="margin-left:-2.0ex;"> CONT ) 02:30, 27 October 2016 (UTC)


 * Barack Hussein → Barack Obama (links · [//en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Barack_Hussein&action=history history] · [//tools.wmflabs.org/pageviews?start=2016-09-18&end=2016-10-17&project=en.wikipedia.org&pages=Barack_Hussein stats])     [ Closure:  ]

Per Redirects_for_discussion/Log/2016_October_17. This one has never had an RfD before but IDK why it is semi protected. - Champion (talk) (contribs) (Formerly TheChampionMan1234) 04:10, 18 October 2016 (UTC)
 * Keep per WP:RNEUTRAL. Many people do seem to use this phrasing online to refer to the president in a way that emphasizes his supposed foreignness, and it does get usage. Patar knight - chat/contributions 15:12, 18 October 2016 (UTC)
 * Keep per WP:CHEAP. It has some use due to actual reference to this phrase as an actual name.--TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 19:55, 18 October 2016 (UTC)
 * Comment is there usage of this version of the name in the article? <strong style="color:#606060;">AngusWOOF ( bark  •  sniff ) 20:29, 18 October 2016 (UTC)
 * Keep per Patar knight. I believe Rush Limbaugh uses this nickname for Obama if I remember correctly. -- Tavix ( talk ) 15:39, 25 October 2016 (UTC)
 * Weak Keep - Use of this term as a perceived pejorative seems to happen a lot. I'm not exactly sure, though, if this is helpful. CoffeeWithMarkets (talk) 01:38, 26 October 2016 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page.