Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2017 May 20

May 20
This is a list of redirects that have been proposed for deletion or other action on May 20, 2017.

Capitals of the Netherlands
 Closed discussion, see full discussion. Result was:
 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more redirects. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the redirect's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was retarget  to Capital of the Netherlands.  (non-admin closure)  f  e  minist  04:31, 28 May 2017 (UTC)


 * Capitals of the Netherlands → Amsterdam (talk · links · [//en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Capitals_of_the_Netherlands&action=history history] · stats)     [ Closure:  ]


 * Capital of Holland → Amsterdam (talk · links · [//en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Capital_of_Holland&action=history history] · stats)     [ Closure:  ]


 * Capitals of Holland → Netherlands (talk · links · [//en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Capitals_of_Holland&action=history history] · stats)     [ Closure:  ]


 * Capital of The Netherlands → Capital of the Netherlands (talk · links · [//en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Capital_of_The_Netherlands&action=history history] · stats)     [ Closure:  ]


 * Capital of the netherlands → Capital of the Netherlands (talk · links · [//en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Capital_of_the_netherlands&action=history history] · stats)     [ Closure:  ]

I don't think this variety of targets for such similar search terms is a good state of affairs. Amsterdam is the capital city of the Netherlands according to the constitution, but because the seat of government and of parliament is The Hague, this leads to the latter city being (erroneously) given as the capital in some sources. We have an article Capital of the Netherlands about this issue. Holland is one of two provinces of the Netherlands (North Holland and South Holland), but the country as a whole is sometimes referred to by this name. Amsterdam is the capital of North Holland, The Hague is the capital of South Holland. Possible targets for these redirects are, as I see it Other than the last one not being a suitable target for the singular search terms I don't know what I think is the best. I will ping WikiProject Netherlands about this discussion. Thryduulf (talk) 23:20, 20 May 2017 (UTC)
 * A disambiguation page
 * Amsterdam. The confusion of capitals is mentioned in the lead.
 * Capital of the Netherlands - the article about the status of capital city in the country.
 * Provinces of the Netherlands - which gives the capital cities of the provinces.
 * Comment I agree these redirects are confusing. I would redirect most of the above to the existing "capital of the Netherlands" article as you propose. We may want to discuss whether the plural should refer to province capitals instead but as you mention, the list of provinces is not suitable. Perhaps we can create a disambiguation page, particularly for references to Holland, which can refer to capital of North and South Holland and the Netherlands as a whole. Note by the way that the capital of North Holland is Haarlem and not Amsterdam (although the latter is in the same province and far larger). Arnoutf (talk) 07:44, 21 May 2017 (UTC)
 * Redirect all five to Capital of the Netherlands. Note that Holland is either the province of the former Dutch Republic or it is meant as a synonym of the Netherlands (which is supposedly the case here), it's hardly ever used as the modern provinces North and South Holland together. Marcocapelle (talk) 09:38, 21 May 2017 (UTC)


 * Keep/retarget all to Capital of the Netherlands. I would either hatnote or add a sentence for the provincial capitals of the N/S Holland. Patar knight - chat/contributions 22:48, 23 May 2017 (UTC)
 * Keep/retarget all to 'Capital of the Netherlands' given the ambiguous background and how said page describes the various nuances. CoffeeWithMarkets (talk) 21:25, 26 May 2017 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page.

Dutch inhabitants
 Closed discussion, see full discussion. Result was:
 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more redirects. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the redirect's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was retarget  to Demographics of the Netherlands.  (non-admin closure)  f  e  minist  13:46, 29 May 2017 (UTC)


 * Dutch inhabitants → Netherlands (talk · links · [//en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Dutch_inhabitants&action=history history] · stats)     [ Closure:  ]

I don't think this should point to the general article about the country, as someone searching for this is almost certainly looking for information about people. However, should it target Demographics of the Netherlands, Dutch people or something else? My preference at the moment is for the demographics article but this is very weak and I'd like other opinions. Thryduulf (talk) 22:54, 20 May 2017 (UTC)
 * Weak preference for Dutch people, no objection against Demographics of the Netherlands. Marcocapelle (talk) 09:31, 21 May 2017 (UTC)
 * Retarget to Demographics of the Netherlands because anti-essentialist.Newimpartial (talk) 14:29, 25 May 2017 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page.

AFRICAN-AMERICAN CIVIL-RIGHTS MOVEMENT
 Closed discussion, see full discussion. Result was:
 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more redirects. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the redirect's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was delete  .  -- Patar knight - chat/contributions 05:52, 27 May 2017 (UTC)


 * AFRICAN-AMERICAN CIVIL-RIGHTS MOVEMENT → African-American Civil Rights Movement (1954–1968) (talk · links · [//en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=AFRICAN-AMERICAN_CIVIL-RIGHTS_MOVEMENT&action=history history] · stats)     [ Closure:  ]

Delete per MOS:ALLCAPS. No page in any article space links to this redirect. The creator of the redirect, User:Taxman, has not made a contribution since March 16, 2013. No notification was placed on the users talk page. Mitchumch (talk) 21:10, 20 May 2017 (UTC)
 * Keep as a harmless . This got 18 hits last year which is above noise level. Thryduulf (talk) 21:37, 20 May 2017 (UTC)
 * Comment There are already five other variations of this term serving as a redirect:
 * The nominated term is a variation that is a violation of MOS:ALLCAPS and should've been deleted at the moment of creation. I don't understand how someone could find this term (or any variation of this term) during a search. Perhaps someone could provide an explanation. Mitchumch (talk) 01:59, 21 May 2017 (UTC)
 * MOS:ALLCAPS is a style guideline relating only to the content of articles. WP:NCCAPS is the guideline relating to the titling of articles, but this too is not applicable to redirects. The purpose of redirects is to enable people to find articles, even if their search term is not quite correct and/or does not match Wikipedia's guidelines. All the hyphenation and capitalisation variations you list above are very useful as search terms taking people directly to the content they are looking for. It is important to note that there are many different ways of navigating Wikipedia and some of these use the exact string entered, including case, and take you to the page that matches exactly even if that page does not exist. When arriving at a page that does not exist, whether you see search results, an invitation to create a page, an invitation to search, an editing window, an error message, a search page with no results, a note about the history of the title or some combination depends on many factors including (but not necessarily limited to) the method you used to arrive at the title, what your access level is like (IP, new account, auto-confirmed account, admin, etc), the history and protection status of the page, whether the search engine is working, the device you are using, and whether you have javascript enabled. This means that just because redirects are very similar they are not necessarily redundant to each other and all need to be assessed for whether they are useful for any reason. Thryduulf (talk) 00:04, 22 May 2017 (UTC)
 * Delete not stylized as all caps all the time. AngusWOOF ( bark  •  sniff ) 22:37, 20 May 2017 (UTC)
 * Delete per WP:RCAPS. — Godsy (TALK CONT ) 02:09, 22 May 2017 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page.
 * The nominated term is a variation that is a violation of MOS:ALLCAPS and should've been deleted at the moment of creation. I don't understand how someone could find this term (or any variation of this term) during a search. Perhaps someone could provide an explanation. Mitchumch (talk) 01:59, 21 May 2017 (UTC)
 * MOS:ALLCAPS is a style guideline relating only to the content of articles. WP:NCCAPS is the guideline relating to the titling of articles, but this too is not applicable to redirects. The purpose of redirects is to enable people to find articles, even if their search term is not quite correct and/or does not match Wikipedia's guidelines. All the hyphenation and capitalisation variations you list above are very useful as search terms taking people directly to the content they are looking for. It is important to note that there are many different ways of navigating Wikipedia and some of these use the exact string entered, including case, and take you to the page that matches exactly even if that page does not exist. When arriving at a page that does not exist, whether you see search results, an invitation to create a page, an invitation to search, an editing window, an error message, a search page with no results, a note about the history of the title or some combination depends on many factors including (but not necessarily limited to) the method you used to arrive at the title, what your access level is like (IP, new account, auto-confirmed account, admin, etc), the history and protection status of the page, whether the search engine is working, the device you are using, and whether you have javascript enabled. This means that just because redirects are very similar they are not necessarily redundant to each other and all need to be assessed for whether they are useful for any reason. Thryduulf (talk) 00:04, 22 May 2017 (UTC)
 * Delete not stylized as all caps all the time. AngusWOOF ( bark  •  sniff ) 22:37, 20 May 2017 (UTC)
 * Delete per WP:RCAPS. — Godsy (TALK CONT ) 02:09, 22 May 2017 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page.

Dutch constellations
Relisted, see Redirects for discussion/Log/2017 May 30%23Dutch constellations

Real gases
 Closed discussion, see full discussion. Result was:
 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more redirects. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the redirect's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was keep  .  -- Patar knight - chat/contributions 05:53, 27 May 2017 (UTC)


 * Real gases → Real gas (talk · links · [//en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Real_gases&action=history history] · stats)     [ Closure:  ]

Pointless redirect. Marcocapelle (talk) 21:03, 20 May 2017 (UTC)
 * Keep. Perfectly standard that got 56 hits between 1 February and 30 April this year demonstrating that people are using it to find the article - clearly not pointless in the slightest. Thryduulf (talk) 21:12, 20 May 2017 (UTC)
 * Category:Redirects from plurals says "usually for plurals that do not follow simple conventions". Isn't this a simple convention? Numbers about usage don't tell a lot, once a redirect is there it will be used, especially when it's so close to the article name. Marcocapelle (talk) 21:27, 20 May 2017 (UTC)
 * From years looking at redirects I can tell you with certainty that just because a redirect exists does not mean will necessarily be used and certainly not by this many people. The term "Real gasses" is used in the very first sentence of the article so it is perfectly plausible for people to expect the article to be at this title. See WP:RFD reasons 2, 5 and 6. Thryduulf (talk) 21:54, 20 May 2017 (UTC)
 * Indeed, because that's right in the opening of the article, it's likely that people that will remember things that way when trying to find the page again. CoffeeWithMarkets (talk) 02:44, 22 May 2017 (UTC)
 * Keep - Many publications in an academic type setting will use the exact term "real gases". See here for just one example. This is totally worth keeping. CoffeeWithMarkets (talk) 22:06, 20 May 2017 (UTC)
 * Keep per above -- Lenticel ( talk ) 02:30, 21 May 2017 (UTC)
 * Keep as r from plural. — Godsy (TALK CONT ) 03:06, 22 May 2017 (UTC)
 * Keep the lead sentence opens with "Real gases". AngusWOOF ( bark  •  sniff ) 01:44, 24 May 2017 (UTC)
 * Keep. Dubious nomination for delete. Newimpartial (talk) 14:31, 25 May 2017 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page.

Huygens' lantern
 Closed discussion, see full discussion. Result was:
 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more redirects. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the redirect's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was keep  .  (non-admin closure)  f  e  minist  04:31, 28 May 2017 (UTC)


 * Huygens' lantern → Magic lantern (talk · links · [//en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Huygens%27_lantern&action=history history] · stats)     [ Closure:  ]

There is no evidence presented that Magic lantern was also called Huygens' lantern. Marcocapelle (talk) 20:43, 20 May 2017 (UTC)
 * Weak keep. Google finds quite a few instances of it being described as Huygens' lantern and it garnered 30 hits between 10 April (a few days after creation) and 19 May suggesting that people are finding it a useful search term. Thryduulf (talk) 21:18, 20 May 2017 (UTC)
 * Please provide links. Marcocapelle (talk) 21:35, 20 May 2017 (UTC)
 * I saw these results, but the impression I got was that it's not a generic phrase, the thing referred to wasn't a Huygens lantern, but simply Huygens' lantern (= the "lantern" that Huygens built). – Uanfala (talk) 21:38, 20 May 2017 (UTC)
 * Indeed, but that doesn't mean that people won't see "Huygens' lantern" and want to learn about it. Thryduulf (talk) 21:55, 20 May 2017 (UTC)


 * Keep Huygens is plastered all over the article for Magic lantern. AngusWOOF  ( bark  •  sniff ) 08:42, 22 May 2017 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page.

Workers' Power (New Zealand)
Relisted, see Redirects for discussion/Log/2017 June 2%23Workers' Power (New Zealand)

List of Archie Comics imprint publictions
Relisted, see Redirects for discussion/Log/2017 May 30%23List of Archie Comics imprint publictions

Lussemburgo
Relisted, see Redirects for discussion/Log/2017 May 30%23Lussemburgo

Belgio
Relisted, see Redirects for discussion/Log/2017 May 30%23Belgio

The Quebec of Europe
 Closed discussion, see full discussion. Result was:
 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more redirects. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the redirect's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was delete  .  -- Patar knight - chat/contributions 05:55, 27 May 2017 (UTC)


 * The Quebec of Europe → Belgium (talk · links · [//en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=The_Quebec_of_Europe&action=history history] · stats)     [ Closure:  ]

Delete. Presumably this redirect is intended to reference Belgium's language politics, but searches on google for the exact phrase "Quebec of Europe" returns only 19 results (and one of those is in French), 17 (including the French one) are about the United Kingdom/England/England and Wales/Wales, 1 is about Transylvania and 1 about Italy. Even explicitly adding Belgium</tt> to the search string doesn't bring up anything really useful - just an unanswered question by user:Wetman at Talk:Flanders/Archive 2 which dates to 2005. Results when searching without quotes for <tt>Quebec of Europe</tt> brings results about how European Quebec City is, while <tt>Quebec of Europe Belgium</tt> without any quotes leads to information about relations between Canada/Quebec and Belgium/Wallonia in terms of both governments and private institutions. Thryduulf (talk) 16:57, 20 May 2017 (UTC)


 * The rationale for a redirect is merely that it is useful. If a redirect is not thought useful, does it take up otherwise-needed space?Wetman (talk) 18:57, 20 May 2017 (UTC)
 * "Merely not useful" doesn't entail "harmless". In this case, the phrase in the redirect could ambiguously apply to several entities, and the target isn't apparently one of them, so the redirect is misleading. – Uanfala (talk) 20:36, 20 May 2017 (UTC)
 * As Uanfala notes, this redirect is misleading. Someone encountering the term "Quebec of Europe" and looking it up here will not find any information about it and will probably end up more confused than they were as almost all uses I found were related to the UK (or part thereof), with single uses for Italy and Transylvania. Animalparty additionally found it used in the context of Finland. Neither of us have found any uses that relate to Belgium. Thryduulf (talk) 21:30, 20 May 2017 (UTC)


 * Delete as vague and unhelpful. "The Quebec of Europe" is by no means an official nickname or widely-used synonym for Belgium, even if one or more persons may have called it that once. I've found print and online references calling both Finland and Britain the "Quebec of Europe" depending on context: would it be useful to redirect to them? No. Per WP:RFD, redirects that are likely to cause confusion, or that are very obscure synonyms, are not likely not be useful, and should be deleted. See also WP:X or Y. --Animalparty! (talk) 21:00, 20 May 2017 (UTC)
 * Delete given the research points to all sorts of regions that none can claim as primary topic. <strong style="color:#606060;">AngusWOOF ( bark  •  sniff ) 16:37, 22 May 2017 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page.

Frakkland
Relisted, see Redirects for discussion/Log/2017 May 30%23Frakkland

Frencisc Cynewīse
Relisted, see Redirects for discussion/Log/2017 May 30%23Frencisc Cynewīse

Stanley B. Mulaik
Relisted, see Redirects for discussion/Log/2017 June 6%23Stanley B. Mulaik