Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2017 October 1

October 1
This is a list of redirects that have been proposed for deletion or other action on October 1, 2017.

Bunch of Foobar (Journal)
Relisted, see Redirects for discussion/Log/2017 October 11%23Bunch of Foobar (Journal)

Wikipedia:Forever
Relisted, see Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2017 October 9%23Wikipedia:Forever

Early Stage
Relisted, see Redirects for discussion/Log/2017 October 17%23Early Stage

Launch Week
Relisted, see Redirects for discussion/Log/2017 October 17%23Launch Week

St. Thomas Syro-Malabar Catholic Church
 Closed discussion, see full discussion. Result was:
 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more redirects. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the redirect's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was delete  . -- Tavix  ( talk ) 01:47, 13 October 2017 (UTC)


 * St. Thomas Syro-Malabar Catholic Church → Syro-Malabar Catholic Eparchy of St. Thomas of Chicago (talk · links · [//en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=St._Thomas_Syro-Malabar_Catholic_Church&action=history history] · stats)     [ Closure:  ]

Articles for deletion/St. Thomas Syro-Malabar Catholic Church recently closed as "delete and redirect" by the closer as a compromise, but they had no problem with it being taken to RfD for discussion. The main concern here is that this redirect only serves to confuse readers: St. Thomas is likely the most common name of any parish in this sui iuris church, because they are the largest group of Saint Thomas Christians.Having such a common name redirect to a eparchy in Chicago when there are likely multiple churches with this name in every existing Syro-Malabar eparchy does a disservice to the reader. There exists the possibility of turning this into a disambiguation page, but I wouldn't know where to start on that, and we don't have that many editors currently working in Eastern Catholicism or Saint Thomas Christianity to help with that process. The best thing here is likely to delete the redirect to avoid confusion to the reader, and keep the red link open so a future editor can create a disambiguation page if it becomes necessary. TonyBallioni (talk) 21:59, 1 October 2017 (UTC)
 * I closed the AfD. Given the above, I don't have any objection to deleting it. Black Kite (talk) 22:00, 1 October 2017 (UTC)
 * Delete - I think TonyBallioni is spot on here. The entire sphere of Saint Thomas Christianity, in India at least, is a minefield of POV, argumentation and murky claims to names etc. While that is essentially a separate and extremely difficult issue to evaluate, this particular redirect just adds heat, not light. - Sitush (talk) 00:11, 2 October 2017 (UTC)
 * delete As a rule we have not redirected non-notable parishes to the parent; it would produce hideous clutter if we did. Mangoe (talk) 13:45, 2 October 2017 (UTC)
 * weak delete in the absence of the above arguments, I would have voted Keep per WP:CHEAP, but I understand the arguments about the parishes and such.--TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 13:57, 2 October 2017 (UTC)


 * Redirect to Syro-Malabar Catholic Church as St. Thomas is the founder of this church branch and the others can link their history to that. Syro-Malabar Catholic Eparchy of St. Thomas of Chicago refers to Syro-Malabar Catholic Church as its denomination so this is the most likely target if you want to generalize the name. AngusWOOF ( bark  •  sniff ) 18:14, 2 October 2017 (UTC)
 * I considered that after filing this RfD, but the issues brought up made me stay on deletion. To say Saint Thomas was the founder is a bit... over simplifying. Eastern Catholicism in general and Saint Thomas Christianity in particular are very complex subjects when it comes to things like naming and histories. You're dealing with multiple ancient religious groups all claiming apostolic succession and each claiming to have doctrine/liturgy/ecclesial governance right. The best we can say is that this sui iuris particular church of the Catholic Church is a part of the Christian that claims descent from Saint Thomas. I actually could see ways where a retarget could be a minefield in this area. TonyBallioni (talk) 21:24, 2 October 2017 (UTC)
 * That would be the case if it were just Saint Thomas church, but given that it has Syro-Malabar Catholic in its title, then folks are wanting to find something with Syro-Malabar in it. You could add  or  if you think it isn't an accurate redirect. I'm just going by what's in the infobox as Founder = St. Thomas the Apostle, so if that's questionable, then it should be discussed whether to remove that from the infobox or add "alleged" or "assumed". AngusWOOF  ( bark  •  sniff ) 23:15, 2 October 2017 (UTC)
 * As an update to this, St. Thomas the Apostle was removed from the infobox field as the founder. AngusWOOF ( bark  •  sniff ) 14:35, 3 October 2017 (UTC)
 * Given how many churches use "St. Thomas Syro-Malabar" in their title, this would still be a useful search term. NPR article        AngusWOOF  ( bark  •  sniff ) 19:17, 3 October 2017 (UTC)
 * I think my argument is that it wouldn't be a useful search term exactly for that reason: it is far too common to be useful to any local eparchy, and redirecting to the overall sui iuris church makes about as much sense as redirecting St. Peter's Roman Catholic Church to Latin Church. Keeping it red would allow a subject matter expert to compile a disambiguation page more easily, especially considering those who are familiar with this subject area are less likely to be familiar with Wikipedia. TonyBallioni (talk) 04:42, 4 October 2017 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page.

Palazzo Fava
 Closed discussion, see full discussion. Result was:
 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more redirects. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the redirect's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was delete  . Thryduulf (talk) 15:31, 9 October 2017 (UTC)


 * Palazzo Fava → Palazzo Ghisilardi Fava (talk · links · [//en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Palazzo_Fava&action=history history] · stats)     [ Closure:  ]

Palazzo Fava is a different palace than palazzo Ghisilardi-Fava (it is next to it). This link should be red until an article is written Desyman (talk) 15:58, 1 October 2017 (UTC)
 * Delete to encourage article creation per WP:REDLINK -- Lenticel ( talk ) 01:17, 2 October 2017 (UTC)
 * Delete for article creation purposes. Even transcribing the text is sufficient enough. jd22292 (Jalen D. Folf) (talk) 04:41, 4 October 2017 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page.

Wikipedia:MB
 Closed discussion, see full discussion. Result was:
 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more redirects. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the redirect's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was dabify  with entries pointing to both WP:MUSICBIO and WikiProject Manitoba. (non-admin closure) jd22292 (Jalen D. Folf) (talk) 03:25, 13 October 2017 (UTC)


 * MB → Wikipedia:WikiProject Manitoba (talk · links · [//en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:MB&action=history history] · stats)     [ Closure:  ]

Propose redirecting to WP:MUSICBIO as the guideline is more commonly viewed and cited than the WikiProject. — Za  wl  14:57, 1 October 2017 (UTC)
 * Retarget per nom. A hatnote pointing to the Wikiproject would also help address confusion -- Lenticel ( talk ) 01:11, 2 October 2017 (UTC)
 * Retarget per nom and create a new shortcut for WikiProject Manitoba called WP:WPMB to avoid any new confusion created. A hatnote would also suffice. jd22292 (Jalen D. Folf) (talk) 02:08, 2 October 2017 (UTC)
 * Replace redirect with a disambiguation page. This redirect has existed since 2004; retargeting the redirect creates too much risk of linkrot in edit summaries. Steel1943  (talk) 17:47, 6 October 2017 (UTC)
 * For the record, my second choice is keep due to it being a longstanding redirect towards its current target. Steel1943  (talk) 04:38, 11 October 2017 (UTC)
 * Disambiguate per Steel1943. f eminist 14:26, 9 October 2017 (UTC)
 * Disambiguate per Steel1943. Thryduulf (talk) 15:33, 9 October 2017 (UTC)
 * Keep as a long-standing shortcut to the current page. Is WP:MBIO not short enough for you? I oppose disambiguation because it's a shortcut and disambiguating prevents its use as such. A hatnote could be beneficial though. -- Tavix ( talk ) 02:17, 10 October 2017 (UTC)
 * Keep, use hatnote at current target if there is potential for confusion with MUSICBIO. WP:BAND and WP:MBIO are short enough, and the hatnote at Notability (music) does not need expanding. Please leave old shortcuts alone. —Kusma (t·c) 13:32, 10 October 2017 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page.

At Seat Catering
 Closed discussion, see full discussion. Result was:
 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more redirects. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the redirect's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was delete  . -- Tavix  ( talk ) 02:29, 10 October 2017 (UTC)


 * At Seat Catering → Catering (talk · links · [//en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=At_Seat_Catering&action=history history] · stats)     [ Closure:  ]

Unclear what this refers to as it is not mentioned in the target article. (This redirect was originally created as a redirect towards Arriva Trains Wales, but the redirect is not mentioned in that article either.) Steel1943  (talk) 13:12, 1 October 2017 (UTC)

ASC is a wholly owned subsidiary of ATW as such if the article is to redirect anywhere is should be to the ATW article. CrossHouses (talk) 13:55, 1 October 2017 (UTC)


 * comment This seems to be a general UK phrase for running a snacks trolley through the car. "Catering" is clearly the wrong target but it is possible there is another relating to food service on trains. Mangoe (talk) 14:49, 2 October 2017 (UTC)


 * Delete Product concept is not unique to airlines or trains, even though that's the model used for the eventual in-seat delivery that is used at stadiums, theaters, or arenas where they bring food to your seat. There isn't any particular article that explains this though. AngusWOOF ( bark  •  sniff ) 17:11, 2 October 2017 (UTC)
 * delete. We should have an article on this concept (although probably at At-seat catering), but all I can currently find is a brief mention in Airline service trolley, but that article is little more than a stub itself. Thryduulf (talk) 16:00, 9 October 2017 (UTC)
 * Delete. I agree with Thryduulf's assessment regarding the creation of a potential article on this concept, but for now, I think it's best to go ahead and delete this. -- Notecardforfree (talk) 23:46, 9 October 2017 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page.

JDSF
 Closed discussion, see full discussion. Result was:
 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more redirects. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the redirect's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was disambiguate  . I've created a dab page containing entries for all the articles mentioned except the John Dau Foundation, for which I didn't see any usage as an acronym in the source provided by . Its inclusion is left to editor discretion. (non-admin closure) – Uanfala 22:30, 14 October 2017 (UTC)


 * JDSF → Japan Self-Defense Forces (talk · links · [//en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=JDSF&action=history history] · stats)     [ Closure:  ]

JDSF is more known as (more likely) Japan DanceSport Federation (ja), than misprint in JSDF acronym. Alex Spade (talk) 12:32, 1 October 2017 (UTC)


 * Comment for what it's worth, I found some printed sources also using JDSF to refer to the Jackson Demonstration State Forest, though the initialism JDSF isn't mentioned on that article. 59.149.124.29 (talk) 04:28, 2 October 2017 (UTC)
 * Try  where they use it. AngusWOOF  ( bark  •  sniff ) 17:04, 2 October 2017 (UTC)


 * Dabify per the IP. The initialism is ambiguous and can either refer to the target or the IP's suggestion. jd22292 (Jalen D. Folf) (talk) 05:15, 2 October 2017 (UTC)
 * Maybe better to draft a stub for Japan DanceSport Federation before the RFD closes. Right now there's no English article, just a bare mention at World DanceSport Federation. 59.149.124.29 (talk) 05:24, 2 October 2017 (UTC)
 * Yup. JDSF acronym can be belong to many other orgs. And maybe better to create respective article(s). But this is not Japan Self-Defense Forces in any case. Alex Spade (talk) 11:13, 2 October 2017 (UTC)
 * Dabify JSDF can be added as there are news articles that mix JSDF and JDSF to mean the same thing.   There's also JD Sports Fashion which can redirect to JD Sports  Here's John Dau Foundation which has also been noted as John Dau Sudan Foundation   AngusWOOF  ( bark  •  sniff ) 17:03, 2 October 2017 (UTC)
 * Disambiguate or delete, in any case, the current situation is wrong. —Kusma (t·c) 08:52, 11 October 2017 (UTC)
 * Dabify - Per AngusWOOF.ZXCVBNM (TALK) 02:45, 14 October 2017 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page.

Richest boy
Relisted, see Redirects for discussion/Log/2017 October 19%23Richest boy

ISD codes
 Closed discussion, see full discussion. Result was:
 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more redirects. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the redirect's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was keep  . -- Tavix  ( talk ) 22:19, 11 October 2017 (UTC)


 * ISD codes → List of country calling codes (talk · links · [//en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=ISD_codes&action=history history] · stats)     [ Closure:  ]

This should be a disambiguation, as the term is more commonly used to refer to either ISO country codes or ISO language codes. KMF (talk) 00:31, 1 October 2017 (UTC)
 * Keep. My research indicates that international standard dialling codes is the clear primary topic for "ISD codes". The nominator may be getting confused with ISO codes, which should indeed be a disambiguation page as suggested. Thryduulf (talk)
 * Comment:, your rationale references "ISO codes", but the redirect you nominated is "ISD codes". Did you mean to nominate this redirect? -- Tavix ( talk ) 02:28, 10 October 2017 (UTC)
 * Keep as unambiguous. I don't think any of the other entries on the dab page at ISD look remotely like a system of codes. – Uanfala 11:00, 11 October 2017 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page.

Ukkunagaram
 Closed discussion, see full discussion. Result was:
 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more redirects. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the redirect's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was keep  now that relevant content has been added to the target. The question of whether this content should ideally be there, or in Visakhapatnam, remains open more or less to editorial discretion. If the content is moved, then the redirect can be retargeted without the need for further discussion. (non-admin closure) – Uanfala 11:34, 10 October 2017 (UTC)


 * Ukkunagaram → Visakhapatnam Steel Plant (talk · links · [//en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Ukkunagaram&action=history history] · stats)     [ Closure:  ]

Not mentioned in target PRehse (talk) 09:44, 20 September 2017 (UTC)
 * Delete - if anything, it could be a redirect to Visakhapatnam, and it could be mentioned there. But as a redirect to the steel plant, that does not appear to be the best idea.  Onel 5969  TT me 12:24, 20 September 2017 (UTC)


 * Lean Keep it needs to be mentioned in the Steel Plant article as one of its developed townships, if not, the main township for its headquarters.  as Ukkunagaram translates to Steel Town.   <strong style="color:#606060;">AngusWOOF  ( bark  •  sniff ) 14:57, 20 September 2017 (UTC)


 * Keep I've added a section to the Steel Plant article with the above references. It appears that the steel plant isn't in the city proper, but 30km away. (India Times) so redirecting to the Steel Plant would make more sense as it's closer to that than the city. <strong style="color:#606060;">AngusWOOF ( bark  •  sniff ) 17:04, 21 September 2017 (UTC) updated 02:15, 22 September 2017 (UTC)

<div class="xfd_relist" style="border-top: 1px solid #AAA; border-bottom: 1px solid #AAA; padding: 0px 25px;"> Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus. Relisting comment: Information now exists thanks to AngusWOOF, but is the current target the best location for it?

Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, -- Tavix ( talk ) 00:14, 1 October 2017 (UTC)
 * It really depends on whether large neighborhood developments that are strongly tied to a large manufacturing plant should redirect to the business or the nearby land area. Articles provided as sources are mainly written either as a tour guide entry or a news announcement that they've increased development. In this case, they announced they are trying to make the development more environmentally friendly. <strong style="color:#606060;">AngusWOOF  ( bark  •  sniff ) 19:08, 3 October 2017 (UTC)


 * Keep after AngusWOOF's WP:BEBOLD addition. jd22292 (Jalen D. Folf) (talk) 03:44, 5 October 2017 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page.

Unload
<div class="boilerplate rfd vfd xfd-closed" style="background:#FFEEDD; margin-top:0.5em; padding:0 10px 0 10px; border:1px solid #888888;"> Closed discussion, see full discussion. Result was:
 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more redirects. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the redirect's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was retarget  to Loading (disambiguation). (non-admin closure)  f eminist 14:25, 9 October 2017 (UTC)


 * Unload → Load (talk · links · [//en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Unload&action=history history] · stats)     [ Closure:  ]

WP:DICDEF redirect that is misleading since 1) all subjects on the target disambihistion page cannot be "unload"-ed, and 2) from what I can tell, there are no existing subjects on Wikipedia named "unload". Steel1943 (talk) 21:02, 18 September 2017 (UTC)

<div class="xfd_relist" style="border-top: 1px solid #AAA; border-bottom: 1px solid #AAA; padding: 0px 25px;"> Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
 * Retarget to Loading (disambiguation) as an antonym and also verb form. <strong style="color:#606060;">AngusWOOF ( bark  •  sniff ) 01:22, 19 September 2017 (UTC)

Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, -- Tavix ( talk ) 00:13, 1 October 2017 (UTC)
 * Retarget to Loading (disambiguation) per AngusWOOF; easy R from antonym. jd22292 (Jalen D. Folf) (talk) 03:46, 5 October 2017 (UTC)
 * Retarget to Loading (disambiguation) as R from antonym. -- Notecardforfree (talk) 15:02, 8 October 2017 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page.

IOS 12
<div class="boilerplate rfd vfd xfd-closed" style="background:#FFEEDD; margin-top:0.5em; padding:0 10px 0 10px; border:1px solid #888888;"> Closed discussion, see full discussion. Result was:
 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more redirects. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the redirect's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was delete  . -- Tavix  ( talk ) 01:43, 10 October 2017 (UTC)


 * IOS 12 → IOS (talk · links · [//en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=IOS_12&action=history history] · stats)     [ Closure:  ]

No information about this version of iOS is known so this redirect should be deleted per WP:CRYSTAL. See this link where a similar point is shown. -KAP03(Talk &bull;&#32;Contributions &bull;&#32;Email) 03:14, 18 September 2017 (UTC) <div class="xfd_relist" style="border-top: 1px solid #AAA; border-bottom: 1px solid #AAA; padding: 0px 25px;"> Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
 * Keep or Retarget to iOS version history. At either location people will learn the most recent version is 11 and will be able to find out about the next version when there is information about it (even if that is not called "iOS 12" this will be a plausible search term for it). Thryduulf (talk) 12:18, 18 September 2017 (UTC)
 * Delete for now. If there is nothing at the target yet, the redirect is WP:CRYSTAL until something is announced ... which will probably happen next year. Steel1943  (talk) 14:24, 18 September 2017 (UTC)

Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, -- Tavix ( talk ) 00:13, 1 October 2017 (UTC)
 * Delete; Wikipedia is not a crystal ball. jd22292 (Jalen D. Folf) (talk) 03:46, 5 October 2017 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page.