Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2017 October 11

October 11
This is a list of redirects that have been proposed for deletion or other action on October 11, 2017.

Concepts on drugs
 Closed discussion, see full discussion. Result was:
 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more redirects. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the redirect's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was delete  . -- Patar knight - chat/contributions 03:53, 19 October 2017 (UTC)


 * Concepts on drugs → Drug (talk · links · [//en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Concepts_on_drugs&action=history history] · stats)     [ Closure:  ]

Unclear if the subject of the redirect is described in the target article. Steel1943 (talk) 23:05, 11 October 2017 (UTC)


 * Delete as vague. There are books and papers with the word "concepts" and "drugs" in the title, but not "concepts on drugs", and redirecting to Drugs isn't that helpful as there is only one entry in further reading. AngusWOOF ( bark  •  sniff ) 14:58, 12 October 2017 (UTC)
 * Delete as vague -- Lenticel ( talk ) 00:43, 13 October 2017 (UTC)
 * Delete, not helpful. Shhhnotsoloud (talk) 11:30, 13 October 2017 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page.

Drugz
 Closed discussion, see full discussion. Result was:
 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more redirects. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the redirect's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was delete  Thryduulf (talk) 13:28, 19 October 2017 (UTC)


 * Drugz → Drug (talk · links · [//en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Drugz&action=history history] · stats)     [ Closure:  ]

Misspelling which though may be likely for Drugs, is essentially unnotable slang. In addition, third party engines seem to also point towards other subjects named "drugz" including a song by an unnotable artist. Steel1943 (talk) 23:02, 11 October 2017 (UTC)
 * Delete - Sounds more like a rapper name. Implausible misspelling that only gets one hit every few months.ZXCVBNM (TALK) 05:37, 13 October 2017 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page.

Bunch of Foobar (Journal)
 Closed discussion, see full discussion. Result was:
 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more redirects. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the redirect's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was Delete most per Uanfala's list. The rest I find no consensus to delete.  -- Tavix  ( talk ) 16:09, 23 October 2017 (UTC)

I'd like to nominate the following redirects for deletion. • #Advances in Adaptive Data Analysis (Journal)

• #Amyloid (Journal)

• #Apparatus (Journal)

• #Australian Feminist Studies (Journal)

• #Autoimmunity (Journal)

• #Behavior Genetics (Journal)

• #Biomedical Engineering: Applications, Basis and Communications (Journal)

• #Biophysical Reviews and Letters (Journal)

• #Brain Injury (Journal)

• #British Politics (Journal)

• #CNS Drugs (Journal)

• #COSMOS (Journal)

• #Chaos (Journal)

• #Communication Theory (Journal)

• #Contemporary Politics (Journal)

• #Database (Journal)

• #Drug and Alcohol Dependence (Journal)

• #Economic Theory (Journal)

• #Evolutionary Theory (Journal)

• #Experimental Aging Research (Journal)

• #Feminist Theory (Journal)

• #Fortid (Journal)

• #Fractals (Journal)

• #Genes (Journal)

• #Hand Surgery (Journal)

• #History of Science (Journal)

• #Hurly-Burly (Journal)

• #International Health (Journal)

• #Interventional Neuroradiology (Journal)

• #Iran and the Cacasus (Journal) [this one also has an unlikely typo]

• #Iranian Studies (Journal)

• #Island Arc (Journal)

• #Life (Journal)

• #Low Temperature Physics (Journal)

• #Medical Anthropology (Journal)

• #Micron (Journal)

• #NANO (Journal)

• #Neuro-Ophthalmology (Journal)

• #Neurocomputing (Journal)

• #Orbit (Journal)

• #Organization (Journal)

• #PharmacoEconomics (Journal)

• #Phytomedicine (Journal)

• #Platelets (Journal)

• #Psychological Injury and Law (Journal)

• #Regional Studies (Journal)

• #Renewable Energy (Journal)

• #Scilicet (Journal)

• #Sojourn (Journal)

• #Strategic Organization (Journal)

• #Transactions (Journal)

• #Transplantation (Journal)

• #Visual Resources (Journal) The reason is mostly because those clutter Category:Redirect-Class Academic Journal articles/WikiProject Academic Journals/Lists of pages/Articles/many other listings, and are WP:COSTLY to maintenance in WP:JOURNALS. I haven't checked all the redirect histories, and I'm not super familiar when redirects need to be maintained for attribution purposes, but most if not all of those were created by mistake. Nothing from mainspace link to those redirects, although sometimes there is an old redirect from Draft space (which is about to get fixed by the double redirect bot). I don't believe those serve any purpose, and anyone looking for Foobar (Journal) will be served by the corresponding Foobar (journal) redirect (they all have such corresponding redirects). Headbomb {t · c · p · b} 22:48, 1 October 2017 (UTC)
 * Delete all per nom. I suspect the hit count on each is low too. jd22292 (Jalen D. Folf) (talk) 03:43, 5 October 2017 (UTC)
 * Keep all. These have all been nominated without the correct templates making assessment unnecessarily hard, but from those I've spot checked all are simple redirects which are routinely kept and many are s which we keep for attribution purposes unless they are actively harmful (and there is no evidence present that these are) and at least some are being used. Thryduulf (talk) 14:52, 9 October 2017 (UTC)
 * Those all tagged with their RFD templates. And R from caps doesn't usually cause maintenance issues, but they cause them for WP:JOURNALS (WP:JCW in particular). And none of those are used. Headbomb {t · c · p · b} 15:01, 9 October 2017 (UTC)
 * , the template Thryduulf was referring to is rfd2: it's used to display the redirect in an RfD nomination. It's useful because it provides links to the history, stats etc. of the redirect and it also includes links that enable the direct actioning of an RfD outcome (this feature is most of the time redundant because of the functionality of the XFDcloser script, but it's indispensable if there's a high number of nominated redirects and there's a differential outcome). Using rfd2 to format a large number of redirects is on the other hander undesirable as it outputs a lot of html code that clogs down the main RfD page (where all the open logs are transcluded). In such cases I guess it's probably best to provide these links on the talk page (for this discussion that would be Wikipedia talk:Redirects for discussion/Log/2017 October 11). – Uanfala 10:43, 19 October 2017 (UTC)


 * Delete all per nom. I checked about 10 of them and none had any significant histories. Almost all resulted from an article being moved to either "Foobar" (no dab needed) or to "Foobar (journal)" (correct capitalization of dab). In those case, the attribution history moves with the article and the editor who performed the move is listed as creator of the redirect (for quite a few, that's me, in fact), so I don't see why those should be kept for attribution purposes. None had any incoming links apart from this XfD and WPJournals maintenance pages. --Randykitty (talk) 16:18, 9 October 2017 (UTC)
 * Delete most. I really don't think that it's worthwile to spend time tracking down, nominating, discussing and doing whatever with such harmless redirects. But now that they have been nominated, we might as well decide what to do with them: and I think most should be deleted as the miscapitalisation makes them implausible as search terms. Follows a list of exceptions, these are redirects that have been the title of the respective artcle for non-trivial periods of time (e.g. more than two months) and so for them the usual R from move rationale holds: Apparatus (Journal), Contemporary Politics (Journal), Database (Journal), Drug and Alcohol Dependence (Journal), Evolutionary Theory (Journal), Feminist Theory (Journal), Iranian Studies (Journal), Island Arc (Journal), Micron (Journal), NANO (Journal), Organization (Journal), Phytomedicine (Journal), Strategic Organization (Journal), Transactions (Journal). – Uanfala 23:38, 9 October 2017 (UTC)
 * Keep per Thryduulf. Evidence for harm is unconvincing. I would suggest to simply ignore Category:Redirect-Class Academic Journal articles. —Kusma (t·c) 09:35, 10 October 2017 (UTC)
 * That's part of the problem, we can't ignore Category:Redirect-Class Academic Journal articles. Redirects matter a great deal more to WP:JOURNALS than they do for most projects. We need our redirects to be in good health, properly categorized, we have efforts to create valid redirects systematically, and we have multiple systems based on the exists or non-existence of redirects, like the classification in WP:JCW/POP/WP:JCW/TAR. These redirects directly harm such efforts. Headbomb {t · c · p · b} 12:01, 11 October 2017 (UTC)
 * You could just classify the redirects as "conforming redirects" or "non-conforming redirects" via your talk page banner and then you would not need to impose your Wikiproject's standards instead of the standard (super permissive) redirect policy. I really don't see why you need to delete the redirects in order to keep your category the way you like it. —Kusma (t·c) 16:52, 11 October 2017 (UTC)
 * That's not how things work, and it's not about just one category, it's about much more than that. Headbomb {t · c · p · b} 23:11, 11 October 2017 (UTC)

 Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.

Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, -- Tavix ( talk ) 22:42, 11 October 2017 (UTC)
 * Delete most per Uanfala. That's strange, I thought I had written a comment to that effect here already. Other than the ones in Uanfala's list, these are pages that were created at incorrect titles and moved to the correct title shortly after, often within minutes. R from move doesn't hold for those, and R from other caps doesn't really have a purpose when the capitalization difference is only within the disambiguator, nor does R from alternate disambiguation really apply. Ivanvector (Talk/Edits) 15:58, 12 October 2017 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page.

Shemozzle
 Closed discussion, see full discussion. Result was:
 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more redirects. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the redirect's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was Withdrawn by nominator  . Redirect pointed to lowercase entry (non-admin closure) Jon Kolbert (talk) 19:35, 11 October 2017 (UTC)


 * Shemozzle → wiktionary:Shemozzle (talk · links · [//en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Shemozzle&action=history history] · stats)     [ Closure:  ]

Page points to an entry on wiktionary that doesn't seem to exist Jon Kolbert (talk) 19:17, 11 October 2017 (UTC)
 * The entry exists, it's just in the lowercase. See wiktionary:shemozzle. -- Tavix ( talk ) 19:30, 11 October 2017 (UTC)
 * Oh, my bad. I withdraw the RfD, then. Jon Kolbert (talk) 19:32, 11 October 2017 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page.

Augusta Ubiorum
Relisted, see Redirects for discussion/Log/2017 October 19%23Augusta Ubiorum

Opening ceremony of the 2012 Paraylmpics
 Closed discussion, see full discussion. Result was:
 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more redirects. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the redirect's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was delete  . -- Tavix  ( talk ) 03:26, 22 October 2017 (UTC)


 * Opening ceremony of the 2012 Paraylmpics → 2012 Summer Paralympics opening ceremony (talk · links · [//en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Opening_ceremony_of_the_2012_Paraylmpics&action=history history] · stats)     [ Closure:  ]

Listed by mistake at WP:MFD by. Original rationale was "implausible typo". Ivanvector (Talk/Edits) 15:52, 11 October 2017 (UTC)
 * Delete - redirect has 10 hits in the past year. Implausible typo, not in use. Ivanvector (Talk/Edits) 17:54, 11 October 2017 (UTC)
 * Keep . I'm not seeing any typos here, just a very plausible rephrasing of the title but with the "summer". However as there were no other Paralymics in 2012 this does not lead to any ambiguity. So unless I'm missing something, this is a perfectly good . Thryduulf (talk) 13:47, 19 October 2017 (UTC)
 * Its Paraylmpics vs. Paralympics. The y and l are switched. -- Tavix ( talk ) 13:57, 19 October 2017 (UTC)
 * Delete. I had literally just spotted that and got edit conficted with you when amending my !vote. Thryduulf (talk) 13:59, 19 October 2017 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page.

Kideko
 Closed discussion, see full discussion. Result was:
 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more redirects. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the redirect's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was retarget to Crank It (Woah!)  . Thryduulf (talk) 14:01, 19 October 2017 (UTC)


 * Kideko → Sweetie Irie (talk · links · [//en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Kideko&action=history history] · stats)     [ Closure:  ]

Deletion. Kideko is a newly notable music artist with an official charting song in the UK on a major dance label (Ministry of Sound Recordings) featuring notable artists Tinie Tempah and Becky G. This redirect to Sweetie Irie is misleading (Kideko and Sweetie Irie are not the same person) due to the notability and content of the target article. Sweetie Irie has appeared on a Kideko track but is that sufficient reason to redirect to a low quality artist page of low notability with no context? Kideko will likely need his own page in the future but as a new artist that does not appear to have done much PR, reliable sources for citations are currently lacking and I'm not sure a stub is the way to go at this point in time. I think deleting the current redirect will eliminate confusion and a proper Kideko stub can be created when there is more content and citations. To me this redirect is doing more harm than good.  GQ sm Talk 15:41, 11 October 2017 (UTC)


 * Redirect to Crank It (Woah!). That's their most notable song. I've boldly redirected it there for now, and have redirected George Kwali as well since the song is by both of them, with the others as featured. The question of whether Kideko will be independently notable from this one single or from George Kwali can then be discussed. AngusWOOF ( bark  •  sniff ) 19:02, 11 October 2017 (UTC) updated 21:57, 11 October 2017 (UTC)


 * A redirect to Crank It (Woah!) is ok with me.  GQ sm Talk 10:33, 16 October 2017 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page.

Strawberry Shortcake (2017 TV Series)
 Closed discussion, see full discussion. Result was:
 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more redirects. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the redirect's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was delete  . Thryduulf (talk) 14:34, 19 October 2017 (UTC)


 * Strawberry Shortcake (2017 TV Series) → Strawberry Shortcake (2017 TV series) (talk · links · [//en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Strawberry_Shortcake_(2017_TV_Series)&action=history history] · stats)     [ Closure:  ]

Speedy was declined by a non-admin but it is routine to delete redirects that were the result of mending of the article title. TheGracefulSlick (talk) 15:26, 11 October 2017 (UTC)


 * Delete as capitalized TV Series, where TV series suffices AngusWOOF ( bark  •  sniff ) 18:47, 11 October 2017 (UTC)
 * Delete - page moved from incorrect title; article was created [today] (yesterday for some). Alternate caps might be valid but I don't think it is in this case, since the caps variance is inside the disambiguator. Ivanvector (Talk/Edits) 23:38, 11 October 2017 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page.

Animal enclosure
 Closed discussion, see full discussion. Result was:
 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more redirects. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the redirect's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was retarget  to Enclosure (disambiguation). The relevant articles are listed there and it is being tagged as R from ambiguous term. -- Tavix  ( talk ) 03:34, 22 October 2017 (UTC)


 * Animal enclosure → Cage (enclosure) (talk · links · [//en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Animal_enclosure&action=history history] · stats)     [ Closure:  ]

G5ed while under discussion at Redirects_for_discussion/Log/2017_September_28, now recreated. A cage is only one of numerous ways to enclose an animal. We don't need a dab or link the term, or waste more time cleaning up after this dictdef / non dab / non issue. A target is hard as they're all specific ways to enclose. e.g. Pen (enclosure). Animal is broad, enclosure too. A list of enclosures is a maybe. We don't have such a list. To illustrate, a broadconcept How to enclose an animal is HOWTO flawed, Human enclosure shouldn't redir to house, keeping ants in a cage or pen is hard. Widefox ; talk 12:22, 30 September 2017 (UTC)
 * Ping prevs User:Rwood128 User:Chris troutman User:Richard Arthur Norton (1958- ) . Widefox ; talk 12:31, 30 September 2017 (UTC)
 * Keep if the article is not what the person is looking for, one of the see also links will be. If the "see also" section is too large, I have no bias against making "animal enclosure" a disambiguation page. --Richard Arthur Norton (1958- ) (talk) 14:14, 30 September 2017 (UTC)
 * Would a category work for you? The links in the See also are more appropriate for a broadconcept. It wouldn't be a normal dab page, so no. Widefox ; talk 16:31, 1 October 2017 (UTC)
 * User:Richard Arthur Norton (1958- ) Seems we already have Category:Buildings and structures used to confine animals. I've just put that in the enclosure dab. Can we rid ourselves of this now, as we have it covered IMHO, and this dictdef disruption (of the blocked editor) is still giving. Widefox ; talk 08:36, 4 October 2017 (UTC)
 * Do we ever target redirect to a category? Category:Buildings and structures used to confine animals does seem the choice with the most options. --RAN (talk) 12:44, 4 October 2017 (UTC)
 * Not that I know of, no. I seem to have misled you to think I was proposing that, I wasn't. I did however, do the highly unusual/wrong thing of putting that category in the dab Enclosure (disambiguation), basically because it illustrates the issue here, and I'm going beyond what I know can/should be done. If anyone removed it, I'd consider it normal. Widefox ; talk 01:16, 5 October 2017 (UTC)
 * redirects to categories do exist and are fine when the category is a reader-facing one, e.g. Cancer organizations redirects to Category:Cancer organizations. Thryduulf (talk) 13:30, 9 October 2017 (UTC)
 * I don't think (you or) anyone here is proposing redirecting the singular Animal enclosure to Category:Buildings and structures used to confine animals ? I must also note that "enclosure" also has a duality of structure and land (the land enclosed) as shown at the dab, with at least some of the animal dab entries should fall into both section names which, of course, isn't possible as they can only be in one section. That is possible with categories (i.e. tags). Widefox ; talk 14:25, 9 October 2017 (UTC)
 * I'm not proposing to retarget this to the category, just correcting your apparent misapprehension that redirecting article space pages to categories is never done. Thryduulf (talk) 14:37, 9 October 2017 (UTC)
 * Thryduulf It's nice to hear it's done, thanks, but it is a straw man that I claimed it is never done, I didn't. My point being it isn't relevant for this RfD, and I had to clarify that I'm not proposing it, and you aren't either. Widefox ; talk 23:02, 9 October 2017 (UTC)


 * Delete Per nom. The target article should probably be deleted; there's no reason to have a redirect point to it. Chris Troutman  ( talk ) 15:14, 30 September 2017 (UTC)
 * I started an RM to make this target the broadconcept primary topic. If that goes ahead or not, this redirect still doesn't fit. Widefox ; talk 21:00, 1 October 2017 (UTC)


 * Delete per nom. It's rather vague and may be a common enough word like container to not require linking. Are you planning on linking this from some articles? Thera are also aquarium enclosures so should tanks be added? AngusWOOF  ( bark  •  sniff ) 17:07, 30 September 2017 (UTC)
 * Comment there's emerging consensus to expand Cage (enclosure) into a broad concept primary topic and move to Cage. It's already changed to be broader than just animal cages. This makes it slightly better less bad as a redirect target for this, but a cage is only one of many enclosures it's a solution still looking for a problem. The cat Category:Buildings and structures used to confine animals shows just how overly narrow it is to link to any single article or dab due to the handfulls of entries. Widefox ; talk 12:46, 3 October 2017 (UTC)
 * Weak Keep but perhaps Retarget to enclosure (disambiguation): I suspect this may have been a redirect left behind after a move, but even if it wasn't, redirects are cheap and though it is targeted to a too-narrow topic, it could be retargeted to a better one.   Montanabw (talk) 15:28, 3 October 2017 (UTC)
 * It was created by a blocked editor who's latest sock made 4K edits of such disruption. It was CSD G5'ed. Then it was recreated by legit means. The problem is that this edit has an entry without a link "*Animal enclosures, including", which by this proposal would turn into an incoming link. I've just cleaned that dab, and I would either link that Animal enclosure entry or remove it. It's a selflink, as...it's a dict def best CSDed, not in use, no history.  Widefox ; talk 08:15, 4 October 2017 (UTC)
 * User:Montanabw targeting the dab is incorrect (per below). If you see the number of entries we have in the category (above), how does linking to any one help readers? Widefox ; talk 01:07, 5 October 2017 (UTC)


 * Keep and redirect to Cage per Widefox. This might have to be reconsidered if the Cage (enclosure) AfD goes sideways. ☆ Bri (talk) 16:47, 3 October 2017 (UTC)
 * User:Bri - my comment wasn't clear - a cage broadconcept is still a bad target. The disruption from the indeffed editor was time consuming to fix as they're based on dictionary/encyclopaedia conflation. per Widefox is still delete. Only the cat (above) or a broadconcept (we don't have) can handle this. Widefox ; talk 08:15, 4 October 2017 (UTC)


 * Comment Enclosure (disambiguation) is fine for me, a better target. Good thinking. We should always be looking for the optimal target, rather than deletion. --RAN (talk) 12:41, 4 October 2017 (UTC)
 * Comment - note to closer: Invalid per guideline  (asking for more opinions at dab project) RAN Except targeting a dab would just be an error Links to disambiguation pages from mainspace are typically errors WP:INTDABLINK. (and this is also not a valid incomplete dab per WP:INCDAB). We should just close this delete now (or wait for more opinions), rather than agree to a direct inversion of guideline just to prevent deletion, and then let everyone realise that, and CSD it. It's gone full circle now, as it has no good target and the logic for keeping it, as you correctly say, is for keeping it. Widefox ; talk 01:01, 5 October 2017 (UTC)
 * redirects to disambiguation pages are not invalid. While most links to them from the article space are in error, they are useful for people searching for ambiguous phrases - see for example Category:Redirects from incomplete disambiguations and Category:Redirects from ambiguous terms. Thryduulf (talk) 13:30, 9 October 2017 (UTC)
 * correct as I said above - we do this for WP:INCDAB and this one is not a valid one like the example INCDAB Aurora (album) could redirect as follows ... #REDIRECT Aurora (disambiguation)#Albums (emphasis own). Enclosure (animal) would be, but we have no ambiguous titles called "Enclosure" so no (also, as I said, the category link in the dab may go at any time as it's for illustration of this, but if the entry stays in the dab I guess it should move to the See also, I don't have examples of dabs with cat links and there's little discussion on INCDAB that I can quickly see). This is much effort for one out of 4K CSD-G5-able blocked sock edits! consensus at ANI was cleanup last time took a long time, and consensus was to G5 and mass rollback them including this. There's no history or usage, it's blocked sock cleanup (that's been recreated). Widefox ; talk 14:25, 9 October 2017 (UTC)
 * I can't make head-nor-tail of most of that, but look at the categories for hundreds if not thousands of examples of ambiguous terms redirecting to correctly redirecting to disambiguation pages, both with and without parentheticals. The redirect was created by a user in good standing, so that a previous version was deleted per G5 is completely irrelevant (unless you are alleging RAN is a puppet of the original creator?). Thryduulf (talk) 14:42, 9 October 2017 (UTC)
 * (tweaked my quick reply above - that better?) The blocked sock also created mass disruptive/WP:PTM entries at the dab which you propose targeting (below), so relevant in this discussion at both ends of the redirect, yes. The animal entries now don't exist to target. I've tried to differentiate the original blocked sock creation from the RAN recreation. If that's not clear, it's not from attempts at trying. I don't think it's helpful to link RAN and the sock as a serious question, is it? This is normal cleanup work. G5 was correct, ANI decided mass rollback of the 4K blocked sock edit disruption was right, and editors here have asked for the history of the deleted redirect, so providing those facts from the person that G5ed it seems helpful (non-admins cannot see the deleted history). I asked for more opinions on the category link at the dab project. Widefox ; talk 02:09, 11 October 2017 (UTC)


 * Delete Similar to AngusWOOF, I think it's overly broad, can mean cage, pen, zoo, preserve, et cetera.ZXCVBNM (TALK) 15:26, 5 October 2017 (UTC)
 * Question - sorry I'm late to the party, but was Animal enclosure always a redirect or was it a stub? As was already mentioned, an animal enclosure can mean many things, so there is a vast difference between a cage and an "animal enclosure". For example, a 2 acre horse paddock is an animal enclosure as is a 2,000 acre high-fenced area containing exotic animals.  An airconditioned building with individual fenced-in areas for dogs is an animal enclosure. Cage just sounds so...uhm...harsh.  If it was a stub and just needed expansion, I can fix that problem. If it's not, then my position is DELETE the redirect. Atsme 📞📧 16:59, 5 October 2017 (UTC)
 * "Animal enclosure" was never a stub. It was created as a disambiguation by an sock on September 23rd, then redirected before being deleted per WP:G5. RAN subsequently recreated it as a redirect to Cage (enclosure). -- Tavix  ( talk ) 17:11, 5 October 2017 (UTC)
 * It's new, it was never a stub. I G5ed it and it should have stayed usefully not there. It's misleading to assume they mean a cage, it's erroneous not helpful to target a dab (as there's no valid links in the dab). There's nowhere good. Widefox ; talk 17:32, 5 October 2017 (UTC)


 * Comment Animal cage redir was newly created and covers this correctly, unlike this one. Widefox ; talk 18:19, 5 October 2017 (UTC)
 * Well, as long as it doesn't get confused with these kinds of cages. Atsme 📞📧 18:47, 5 October 2017 (UTC)


 * 'Retarget' to Enclosure (disambiguation) as a as that section lists the various types of enclosures used for animals. Thryduulf (talk) 13:30, 9 October 2017 (UTC)
 * bad target, not INCDAB or useful links at the dab 1. the animal enclosure entries aren't proper dab entries as they're more in the category "Enclosures" and WP:PTM so we shouldn't count on them staying there (it was my illustrative example section to see how it looked, that's all, and it's bad) 2. dab entries are for articles not categories (and I've included it for illustrating this, as I discuss above). Widefox ; talk 14:25, 9 October 2017 (UTC)
 * The term "animal enclosure" is (a) a plausible search term and (b) ambiguous, so it needs to be either a disambiguation page or a redirect to an existing disambiguation page. We have an existing page that disambiguates different types of enclosures so this is a perfect match. If style guidelines say that articles and categories about enclosures do not belong on enclosure (disambiguation) then the style guidelines need changing or ignoring because they are clearly harming the encyclopaedia. Thryduulf (talk) 14:47, 9 October 2017 (UTC)
 * Only 1. dab or 2. redir to dab is a false dichotomy. In terms of OTHERSTUFF, I just deprodded Cat enclosure, so clearly there's valid opinions that deletion is OK too (not that I agreed with that one). AFAIK, the cleanup of these redirects left by the blocked sock were all G5ed, as they were timeconsuming to go through last time. Both "animal" and "enclosure" are broad, dab pages are for titles not search per WP:D Disambiguation in Wikipedia is the process of resolving conflicts that arise when a potential article title is ambiguous ... A disambiguation page is not a search index There is no single article title ambiguous with "enclosure" for valid inclusion in the context of animal, it's more a category. e.g. Cat enclosure is a WP:PTM that shouldn't be on the dab. It seems more like a category (which we have) or a list (don't have). Sending readers to invalid entries on a dab is far from "perfect", no. If this was a long-standing redirect, or keeping something working that's one thing, but it's newly recreated, and tantalisingly seemingly useful. It isn't though. I concede I'm no expert on redirects to dabs, but readers won't be getting a list of animal enclosures. I'll put in a note at the dab project for more opinions on the inclusion of the category link, the dab Enclosure (disambiguation) (which I got a barnstar for fixing the mess there - see before when the dab and this redirect were edited by the blocked sock ), and this redirect. Widefox ; talk 10:05, 10 October 2017 (UTC)
 * As I suspected after trying that animal section at the dab, I've moved the category link at the dab to the see also, and removed those WP:PTM enclosure entries so there's no valid entries for an animal section. Those entries were not in the dab before the recent blocked sock . Does that clarify? More opinions on the validity of such redirects to dabs in general (with a link back to this one in particular) are welcome at Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Disambiguation which may be a better venue to discuss your suspicion (and any evidence for) normal cleanup work harming the project. Widefox ; talk 02:09, 11 October 2017 (UTC)

<div class="xfd_relist" style="border-top: 1px solid #AAA; border-bottom: 1px solid #AAA; padding: 0px 25px;"> Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.

Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Steel1943  (talk) 04:41, 11 October 2017 (UTC)
 * I've undone my edit to add the category link in the dab after the discussion at the dab project. Widefox ; talk 12:36, 12 October 2017 (UTC)


 * Retarget to enclosure (disambiguation) as a legitimate potential search term.ZXCVBNM (TALK) 06:00, 11 October 2017 (UTC)
 * ZXCVBNM which links can they then use at that target? Widefox ; talk 11:04, 11 October 2017 (UTC)
 * Right now, nothing, but cage could be added to the disambiguation under "structures" as well as zoo, which contains enclosures for animals. Or, I also agree with Thyrrdulf that there could be an "animal containment" section to the disambiguation. Either way, it's obviously a plausible search term. Ever since its creation pageviews have numbered in the dozens.ZXCVBNM (TALK) 05:43, 13 October 2017 (UTC)
 * So none right? cage isn't in the dab, no. zoo also isn't. If we want readers to navigate to those, then redirecting to the dab does not do it. Redirects don't decide what's on the dab, that's tail wagging the dog for this RfD. Those weren't on the dab before the blocked sock disrupted it . Now I've cleaned up the dab, they're not there as they're not valid. I tried an "animal containment" section (itself an unusual section name) and it was an experiment I've undone. There's many such general terms that don't redirect: Plant container doesn't redirect to Container (disambiguation). Container (disambiguation) doesn't list all containers, as they're WP:PTM / not bolded synonyms / examples of the broad concept / a category. Plant enclosure too. Enclosure has no broad concept article. If there's many views, we're confusing many readers! It's an argument not to relist but delete before we confuse more readers. Widefox ; talk 08:54, 13 October 2017 (UTC)


 * Update After limited discussion at the dab project about the general case of the validity of this type of redirect and category link in dabs (with this being the example), I've undone my addition of the category link in the dab. Both proposed targets have been fixed Cage (now moved, and a broadconcept not just about animal cages) and Enclosure (disambiguation) (has been cleaned up). Both aren't helpful targets for this overly general term with nowhere useful to target after an exhaustive attempt. Widefox ; talk 12:49, 12 October 2017 (UTC)
 * Retarget to Enclosure (disambiguation).  — SMcCandlish ☏ ¢ &gt;ʌⱷ҅ᴥⱷʌ&lt;  07:01, 14 October 2017 (UTC)
 * SMcCandlish that target doesn't exist. Widefox ; talk 13:35, 14 October 2017 (UTC)
 * I think it's obvious he means that there should be a section created there for it. Please stop questioning literally every vote against your side of the argument, and assuming people have not read and understood both sides of the argument. Writing an essay as to why every vote besides yours is "wrong" is disruptive and just makes your stance look more flimsy.ZXCVBNM (TALK) 09:05, 15 October 2017 (UTC)
 * Yes, thanks. I apologise for BLUDGEONing (to highlight policy/guidelines/norms which I don't consider disruptive, no), so this is my last comment. My point is that section does not exist, and the right venue to discuss the dab is there (or WT:WPDIS). Proposing something here dependent on something rejected elsewhere is folly. e.g. Computer (disambiguation) does not list instances of computers. Widefox ; talk 12:20, 15 October 2017 (UTC)


 * 'Retarget to Enclosure (disambiguation). I see no reason why relevant entries can't be added there, or why a link to a category cannot be a valid entry somewhere there. Patar knight - chat/contributions 04:25, 19 October 2017 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page.

FLUYT
<div class="boilerplate rfd vfd xfd-closed" style="background:#FFEEDD; margin-top:0.5em; padding:0 10px 0 10px; border:1px solid #888888;"> Closed discussion, see full discussion. Result was:
 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more redirects. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the redirect's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was Delete. Ruslik_ Zero 20:32, 29 October 2017 (UTC)


 * FLUYT → Reaction Engines Limited (talk · links · [//en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=FLUYT&action=history history] · stats)     [ Closure:  ]

Deletion. Use of a search engine for FLUYT OTV or "Reaction Engines" FLUYT will quickly indicate the Fluyt OTV is not usually capitalised "FLUYT" so it is unlikely that someone would be searching for FLUYT when looking for the spacecraft. The Fluyt page has a "for" template in place, and redirects exist for both Fluyt (spacecraft) and Fluyt (Reaction Engines) to the relevant section. A search for Fluyt OTV picks up the relevant page. Given the ease of finding the conceptual spacecraft, the potential confusion over receiving a different page depending on whether one's capslock key was pressed does not seem warranted Stgpcm (talk) 09:48, 30 September 2017 (UTC)
 * Comment: The pageviews _may_ be misleading as FLUYT used to be the target of the "for" template on the Fluyt page Stgpcm (talk) 17:42, 30 September 2017 (UTC)


 * Retarget to Fluyt per . Thryduulf (talk) 12:59, 9 October 2017 (UTC)
 * "Searching using the Go or Search button is, generally speaking, case-insensitive. It is not necessary to create redirects from alternative capitalizations, unless editors are likely to link from the differently capitalized form" WP:NCCAPS (as linked from ). Stgpcm (talk) 09:35, 10 October 2017 (UTC)
 * "Searching using the Go or Search button is" far from the only method people use to search Wikipedia and at least some other ways are case sensitive. While there is no need to create differently capitalised forms in many instances, this is not a reason to delete a redirect once it has been created. Thryduulf (talk) 11:34, 10 October 2017 (UTC)

<div class="xfd_relist" style="border-top: 1px solid #AAA; border-bottom: 1px solid #AAA; padding: 0px 25px;"> Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
 * Delete per WP:RCAPS, there's no affinity between this capitalization and any topic on Wikipedia. I did some searching similar to the nominator's suggestions, and I was unable to find anything in caps. If there's evidence that I missed, I am more than willing to change my !vote. Knowing the creator of the redirect, I doubt a lot of thought went in to its creation in the first place. -- Tavix ( talk ) 13:41, 10 October 2017 (UTC)

Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Steel1943  (talk) 04:40, 11 October 2017 (UTC)
 * Delete per (notwithstanding my dislike of your ad hominem) . Shhhnotsoloud (talk) 11:47, 13 October 2017 (UTC)
 * *shrug* I guess I am not a fan of someone who made legal threats against me... -- Tavix ( talk ) 15:57, 20 October 2017 (UTC)
 * I'll definitely disagree with Tavix in this instance, but generally it's quite relevant who was the person behind something. Because of the self-selected nature of the population of editors, there's a lot more variation that in most other parts of life. If you've been here long enough and had the occasion to deal with myriad types of mess, you will probably have formed an opinion on whose work you can trust, and whose you can know is likely to suffer from the various forms of sloppiness, bias or insufficient competence. – Uanfala 13:10, 28 October 2017 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page.

List of developers that have created levels in Super Mario Maker
<div class="boilerplate rfd vfd xfd-closed" style="background:#FFEEDD; margin-top:0.5em; padding:0 10px 0 10px; border:1px solid #888888;"> Closed discussion, see full discussion. Result was:
 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more redirects. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the redirect's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was speedy deleted, G7, by .  -- Tavix  ( talk ) 19:42, 11 October 2017 (UTC)


 * List of developers that have created levels in Super Mario Maker → Super Mario Maker (talk · links · [//en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=List_of_developers_that_have_created_levels_in_Super_Mario_Maker&action=history history] · stats)     [ Closure:  ]

Obvious WP:NOTDIRECTORY redirect. Someone that searches this could be looking for a specific directory, which is not mentioned and cannot be mentioned per the guideline. jd22292 (Jalen D. Folf) (talk) 04:23, 11 October 2017 (UTC)
 * Delete – no reason to keep this redirect. ~ Mable ( chat ) 11:30, 11 October 2017 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page.

Rust Map
<div class="boilerplate rfd vfd xfd-closed" style="background:#FFEEDD; margin-top:0.5em; padding:0 10px 0 10px; border:1px solid #888888;"> Closed discussion, see full discussion. Result was:
 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more redirects. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the redirect's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was delete  . Thryduulf (talk) 14:25, 19 October 2017 (UTC)


 * Rust Map → Rust (video game) (talk · links · [//en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Rust_Map&action=history history] · stats)     [ Closure:  ]

Obvious WP:WIKIA material as someone searching for this could be expecting what to find in a typical map. jd22292 (Jalen D. Folf) (talk) 04:21, 11 October 2017 (UTC)
 * Delete per my PROD rationale from 2 years ago.  Anarchyte  ( work  &#124;  talk )  08:29, 11 October 2017 (UTC)


 * Delete per nom. Lots of video games have maps. Not used in news articles. Would need some major notability like Rust Belt. <strong style="color:#606060;">AngusWOOF ( bark  •  sniff ) 18:53, 11 October 2017 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page.

Becker Road
<div class="boilerplate rfd vfd xfd-closed" style="background:#FFEEDD; margin-top:0.5em; padding:0 10px 0 10px; border:1px solid #888888;"> Closed discussion, see full discussion. Result was:
 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more redirects. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the redirect's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was delete  . Thryduulf (talk) 14:28, 19 October 2017 (UTC)


 * Becker Road → Port St. Lucie, Florida (talk · links · [//en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Becker_Road&action=history history] · stats)     [ Closure:  ]

Ambiguous redirect; there could be more than one Becker Road in the world, it's not just tied to PSL. jd22292 (Jalen D. Folf) (talk) 04:20, 11 October 2017 (UTC)


 * Delete per nom. Non-notable road outside of localities in cities all over, Not a notable media title. <strong style="color:#606060;">AngusWOOF ( bark  •  sniff ) 18:49, 11 October 2017 (UTC)
 * Delete per nom. There are many hits for Becker Road, but none are a good redirect target. Ivanvector (Talk/Edits) 15:53, 12 October 2017 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page.

Markiplier nicknames and lore
<div class="boilerplate rfd vfd xfd-closed" style="background:#FFEEDD; margin-top:0.5em; padding:0 10px 0 10px; border:1px solid #888888;"> Closed discussion, see full discussion. Result was:
 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more redirects. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the redirect's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was delete all  . Thryduulf (talk) 14:29, 19 October 2017 (UTC)


 * King of the Squirrels → Markiplier (talk · links · [//en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=King_of_the_Squirrels&action=history history] · stats)     [ Closure:  ]
 * Tiny Box Tim → Markiplier (talk · links · [//en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Tiny_Box_Tim&action=history history] · stats)     [ Closure:  ]
 * Darkiplier → Markiplier (talk · links · [//en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Darkiplier&action=history history] · stats)     [ Closure:  ]

These nicknames given to this YouTuber are not mentioned in the current revision. jd22292 (Jalen D. Folf) (talk) 04:17, 11 October 2017 (UTC)


 * Delete both as per nom. <b style="color:#ACA3BF">Stikkyy</b> t/c 04:44, 11 October 2017 (UTC)
 * Nominator comment: Adding Darkiplier for the same reasons as the other redirects and in response to a declined R3 for not being recently created. jd22292 (Jalen D. Folf) (talk) 07:46, 11 October 2017 (UTC)


 * Delete all per nom. Not mentioned in article as significant nicknames. <strong style="color:#606060;">AngusWOOF ( bark  •  sniff ) 18:51, 11 October 2017 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page.

Battle Royale (2001)
Relisted, see Redirects for discussion/Log/2017 October 21%23Battle Royale (2001)