Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2018 August 28

August 28
This is a list of redirects that have been proposed for deletion or other action on August 28, 2018.

Jewish words and expressions
 Closed discussion, see full discussion. Result was:
 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more redirects. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the redirect's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was no consensus, default to delete  . There is agreement that the current targets aren't right. Several alternative targets have been proposed but these haven't been discussed extensively. If any editor who participated in this discussion feel strongly about an alternative target, they are welcome to create a fresh redirect at their preferred destination. Deryck C. 14:00, 10 September 2018 (UTC)


 * Jewish words and expressions → Yiddish (talk · links · [//en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Jewish_words_and_expressions&action=history history] · stats)     [ Closure:  ]
 * Jewish words and phrases → Jewish languages (talk · links · [//en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Jewish_words_and_phrases&action=history history] · stats)     [ Closure:  ]

Someone searching for this is probably looking for Hebrew or Yiddish, which is a bit of an WP:XY problem already, even discounting other Jewish languages. But I don't think there's anything like that in mainspace. The closest we could probably get is List of English words of Yiddish origin and its Yiddish equivalent, but even they're much more focused than the redirect suggests. I don't think we can go cross-namespace into category-space either, because we run into the same problem (e.g., or Hebrew?). BDD (talk) 22:54, 28 August 2018 (UTC)
 * Delete per nom. No good candidates for redirection. Besides Hebrew and Yiddish, there's also Ladino and some others. Catrìona (talk) 23:46, 28 August 2018 (UTC)
 * Delete. I would expect someone using this search term to be looking for a list of words and expressions in English that are used by Jews, in Jewish culture and/or originated in Jewish culture, but the only articles I can find are Jewish languages (which is too broad) and Jewish greetings (which is too narrow). I'll alert the Judaism project though in case there are articles they know of we're not finding. (edit: I see BDD has already done this) Thryduulf (talk) 09:31, 29 August 2018 (UTC)
 * Comment Thank you for tagging the wikiproject. I am fine either way with the outcome of this. It seems like a pretty unlikely search term to me, more likely "Jewish words" would be searched, but that is why we have a search function. Also there is Jewish words and phrases which redirects to Jewish languages, whatever the outcome, the same should apply to both redirects. -  Galatz גאליץ שיחה Talk  13:12, 29 August 2018 (UTC)
 * Thank you! I must have overlooked that one, but I've added it now. --BDD (talk) 13:37, 29 August 2018 (UTC)
 * Delete They are either Hebrew or Yiddish, but not Jewish. Debresser (talk) 17:26, 29 August 2018 (UTC)
 * That is actually not entirely accurate. Yiddish is actually the Yiddish word for Jewish, so native Yiddish speakers refer to the language as Jewish. That is not done at all with Hebrew or Ladino. -  Galatz גאליץ שיחה Talk  17:35, 29 August 2018 (UTC)
 * No need to look at the original meaning of words, per the rationale of WP:COMMON. Debresser (talk) 17:38, 29 August 2018 (UTC)


 * Keep and retarget. I'm thinking that when someone looks for something like this, they overwhelmingly want List of English words of Yiddish origin, not anything else. I'm not as convinced as the rest of you that either (a) there are too many choices, hence XY, or (b) it's too broad, because Yiddish isn't the only Jewish language. In practical terms, there are almost no loan words in English from Jewish languages other than Hebrew and Yiddish, and most loan words from Hebrew have either been in English for so long that people don't think of them as loan words (shibboleth) or are associated with Jewish religious concepts. No, it's only Yiddish that has really provided a lot of words in general use. I'd keep these and retarget to that page. StevenJ81 (talk) 20:06, 29 August 2018 (UTC)
 * I'm still thinking about whether I support your suggested retarget, but my "too broad" comment was relating specifically to Jewish languages as a target - someone using this search term is looking for something more specific than that. Thryduulf (talk) 21:02, 29 August 2018 (UTC)
 * Comment Jewish phrases redirects to Jewish greetings AngusWOOF  ( bark  •  sniff ) 00:22, 31 August 2018 (UTC)
 * Hmm. I don't like that either, since it's another case of redirecting a broad term to a narrower topic, but I don't know if adding it here makes sense. --BDD (talk) 14:14, 31 August 2018 (UTC)
 * I agree with BDD. "Jewish greetings" to "Jewish phrases" would be a good redirect, but I'm not convinced about this way around. Thryduulf (talk) 20:15, 2 September 2018 (UTC)
 * Eh, I dunno. I'm sympathetic to retarget to List of English words of Yiddish origin as most useful, for better or for worse understanding of the culture, but Jewish greetings has a fair number of Jewish words, phrases, and expressions, so I'd be fine pointing both of these there until that gets resolved.  Regardless, it's clear we have relevant content, so deletion is no good. ~  Amory  (u • t • c) 01:46, 9 September 2018 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page.

Talk:Martin Redmayne, Baron Redmayne
 Closed discussion, see full discussion. Result was:
 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more redirects. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the redirect's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was wrong venue Thryduulf (talk) 09:35, 29 August 2018 (UTC)


 * Talk:Martin Redmayne, Baron Redmayne → Talk:Martin Redmayne, Baron Redmayne of Rushcliffe (talk · links · [//en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Martin_Redmayne,_Baron_Redmayne&action=history history] · stats)     [ Closure:  ]

redirects to 'Martin Redmayne, Baron Redmayne of Rushcliffe'. This redirect should be deleted so the main page can be renamed 'Martin Redmayne, Baron Redmayne'. Nford24 (PE121 Personnel Request Form) 13:37, 28 August 2018 (UTC)


 * , this should be a RM discussion not a RFD. Martin Redmayne, Baron Redmayne of Rushcliffe seems to be the current article title so the talk pages and talk redirects are consistent with that.   AngusWOOF  ( bark  •  sniff ) 15:11, 28 August 2018 (UTC)
 * User:AngusWOOF - The redirect needs to be deleted so as the article can be renamed. The redirect was made by a now blocked editor who seems to have made multiple stupid redirect pages and renamed pages (thus leading to his permanent block). Nford24 (PE121 Personnel Request Form) 23:15, 28 August 2018 (UTC)
 * , you can make the technical request over at WP:RM/TR so that the admins there can delete the existing redirects for you. AngusWOOF  ( bark  •  sniff ) 23:19, 28 August 2018 (UTC)
 * Okie okdie, Cheers mate. Nford24 (PE121 Personnel Request Form) 23:24, 28 August 2018 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page.

En.wiki
 Closed discussion, see full discussion. Result was:
 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more redirects. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the redirect's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was keep  . ~  Amory  (u • t • c) 01:05, 5 September 2018 (UTC)


 * En.wiki → English Wikipedia (talk · links · [//en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=En.wiki&action=history history] · stats)     [ Closure:  ]

The English Wikipedia is not the only Wiki that has en.wiki as other wikis likely use it besides Wikipedia Abote2 (talk) 10:41, 28 August 2018 (UTC)
 * Keep I don't see a reason to retarget, an alternate target, or anything to confuse it with; "enwiki" clearly refers to the English Wikipedia. (and also redirects there) power~enwiki ( π,  ν ) 21:35, 28 August 2018 (UTC)
 * Well, you would say that! --BDD (talk) 22:56, 28 August 2018 (UTC)
 * The English Wikipedia is called enwiki because that's its database name... Do any other wikis use the same name? I feel like "en.wiki" is probably based off of that, due to some misunderstanding. --Yair rand (talk) 23:02, 28 August 2018 (UTC)
 * Keep. Even if there are others, the English Wikipedia is by far the primary topic. Thryduulf (talk) 09:36, 29 August 2018 (UTC)
 * Keep. "En.wiki" could also refer to the English Wikiquote, English Wikisource or English Wikinews projects, but the English Wikipedia is (1) the only wiki it could refer to that we have an article on, the others being redirects, and (2) by far the most likely to be what someone who searches for this is looking for. – Arms &amp; Hearts (talk) 20:37, 29 August 2018 (UTC)
 * "en.wiki" is also a technical name for the English Wikipedia but not the others, e.g. English Wikiquote is technically "en.wikiquote". Thryduulf (talk) 20:19, 2 September 2018 (UTC)
 * Comment - Might this be worth keeping but 'Enwiki' be more of an ambiguous case? I'd think that most searchers would remember the period or at least use a space. CoffeeWithMarkets (talk) 10:44, 2 September 2018 (UTC)
 * Enwiki needs separate discussion I think as not all the arguments for keeping this redirect apply to that one. Thryduulf (talk) 20:19, 2 September 2018 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page.

Alappuzha Lok Sabha cinstituency
 Closed discussion, see full discussion. Result was:
 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more redirects. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the redirect's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was speedily deleted by Athaenara under criterion WP:CSD. Thryduulf (talk) 09:38, 29 August 2018 (UTC)


 * Alappuzha Lok Sabha cinstituency → Alappuzha Lok Sabha constituency (talk · links · [//en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Alappuzha_Lok_Sabha_cinstituency&action=history history] · stats)     [ Closure:  ]

This redirect is not needed. It is a redirect from a page that has been renamed because for fixing spelling error. (Spelling error: cinstituency).  PATH SLOPU (Talk) 09:40, 28 August 2018 (UTC)


 * Delete as a not useful typo by a user who was creating a large number of (place) Lok Sabha constituency redirects. AngusWOOF  ( bark  •  sniff ) 15:14, 28 August 2018 (UTC)
 * I'm sending this to speedy as the requester is the creator. AngusWOOF  ( bark  •  sniff ) 23:23, 28 August 2018 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page.

Ford's
 Closed discussion, see full discussion. Result was:
 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more redirects. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the redirect's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was retarget  to Ford (disambiguation). (non-admin closure) feminist (talk) 03:18, 4 September 2018 (UTC)


 * Ford's → Ford Motor Company (talk · links · [//en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Ford%27s&action=history history] · stats)     [ Closure:  ]

Should this target Ford Motor Company (the primary topic for "Ford"), or Ford's Theatre (the only article with "Ford's" in the title) or Ford (disambiguation) (a (lengthy) dab page)? Shhhnotsoloud (talk) 07:51, 28 August 2018 (UTC)


 * Here's the look from: All pages with titles beginning with Ford's I'm not sure any of those are primary topic, but perhaps the look from can be added at the bottom of the dab page.  AngusWOOF  ( bark  •  sniff ) 15:08, 28 August 2018 (UTC)
 * Retarget to Ford (disambiguation) I think Ford's Theatre is a bit too surprising, and redirecting from a possessive to a company/brand is weird. power~enwiki ( π, ν ) 21:33, 28 August 2018 (UTC)
 * I think it should stay as is. "Ford's" is a common way of referring to the company in Michigan. (It follows a rule generally applied to businesses with personal names: Kroger's, Meijer's). Rmhermen (talk) 21:41, 28 August 2018 (UTC)
 * Retarget to Ford's Theatre. It isn't surprising to me, but that's because I live in DC. :) I was initially going to say retarget to the disambiguation page, and would still be fine with that outcome, but knowing that the theatre is the only topic with the possessive in the title tipped it for me. Of course, we'll want a hatnote there. --BDD (talk) 13:44, 29 August 2018 (UTC)
 * Retarget to the disambiguation page per Power~enwiki. While "Ford's" may be a common way to refer to Ford in Michigan, I'm not sure it's all that common elsewhere (where I come from it's common to say "Asda's" or "Tesco's", but I don't recall ever hearing "Ford's"), and, though the theatre may often be referred to as "Ford's," it's obscure enough (at least to people who aren't U.S. history buffs) that readers who search for this are more likely to be looking for some other topic. – Arms &amp; Hearts (talk) 20:27, 29 August 2018 (UTC)
 * retarget to the Disambig per Arms & Hearts. I suspect that if I did search for this I'd be least surprised to end up on a disambiguation page than either the motor company or the theatre. Thryduulf (talk) 20:21, 2 September 2018 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page.

Condescendence
 Closed discussion, see full discussion. Result was:
 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more redirects. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the redirect's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was soft redirect  to condescendence. ~  Amory  (u • t • c) 01:38, 9 September 2018 (UTC)


 * Condescendence → Allegation (talk · links · [//en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Condescendence&action=history history] · stats)     [ Closure:  ]
 * Condescendences → Allegation (talk · links · [//en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Condescendences&action=history history] · stats)     [ Closure:  ]

Creator says that these refer to a Scottish legal term, but to everyone else this is incredibly confusing. &thinsp;&mdash; Mr. Guye (talk) (contribs)&thinsp; 02:53, 11 August 2018 (UTC)
 * Soft redirect to wikt:condescendence where the Scots law term is explained. There is no content on Wikipedia relating to this that I can find (the only occurrences of the word are in lists and Singaporean contexts). Adding related content at Summons would be a useful addition to the encyclopaedia, and this should be free to be retartgetted there without further discussion if and when added, but until then Wiktionary is the best we can do. Thryduulf (talk) 10:10, 11 August 2018 (UTC)

 Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
 * Retarget to Condescension Is this a slightly different meaning? It should probably be expanded there. AngusWOOF  ( bark  •  sniff ) 14:55, 12 August 2018 (UTC)
 * I considered a retarget to that dab page, but the two words seem to have completely different meanings and there is nothing we could add to the dab page except a link to Wiktionary and a lot of words to note that there are now two things on the one dab page. A soft redirect at this title will be much simpler everyone. Thryduulf (talk) 18:14, 12 August 2018 (UTC)
 * Wiktionary shows condescension as one of the meanings though, and as a synonym. AngusWOOF  ( bark  •  sniff ) 22:51, 12 August 2018 (UTC)
 * Soft redirect per Thryduulf. – Arms &amp; Hearts (talk) 21:16, 12 August 2018 (UTC)

Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, -- Tavix ( talk ) 18:06, 20 August 2018 (UTC)  Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.

Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, ~ Amory  (u • t • c) 01:24, 28 August 2018 (UTC)
 * Soft redirect per Thryduulf. Patar knight - chat/contributions 06:38, 6 September 2018 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page.

Human face fish
Relisted, see Redirects for discussion/Log/2018 September 9%23Human face fish