Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2018 September 18

September 18
This is a list of redirects that have been proposed for deletion or other action on September 18, 2018.

Saint Michel Boulevard
 Closed discussion, see full discussion. Result was:
 * ''The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more redirects. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the redirect's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.'


 * The result of the discussion was Moot for Saint Michel Boulevard as it is now an article, 'Delete the others. Thryduulf (talk) 14:11, 27 September 2018 (UTC)


 * Saint Michel Boulevard → fr:Boulevard Saint-Michel (Montréal) (talk · links · [//en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Saint_Michel_Boulevard&action=history history] · stats)     [ Closure:  ]
 * De L'Acadie Boulevard → fr:Boulevard de l'Acadie (talk · links · [//en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=De_L%27Acadie_Boulevard&action=history history] · stats)     [ Closure:  ]
 * De Lorimier Avenue → fr:Avenue De Lorimier (talk · links · [//en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=De_Lorimier_Avenue&action=history history] · stats)     [ Closure:  ]
 * Langelier Boulevard → fr:Boulevard Langelier (talk · links · [//en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Langelier_Boulevard&action=history history] · stats)     [ Closure:  ]
 * Viger Avenue → fr:Avenue Viger (talk · links · [//en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Viger_Avenue&action=history history] · stats)     [ Closure:  ]

Sending readers to non-English content is not helpful. Suggestions for local targets are welcome. Precedent: Redirects for discussion/Log/2018 August 21. — Godsy (TALK CONT ) 23:00, 18 September 2018 (UTC)


 * Comment, the first entry was first targeted to Boulevard Saint-Michel, France. Not sure did Canadian called the namesake in Montréal as "Saint Michel Boulevard " or not, so either re-target or delete it. Matthew_hk   t  c  00:26, 19 September 2018 (UTC)
 * Boulevard Saint Michel is very much a north-south boulevard in Montreal and as such it is mentioned in . Trust me, I live here and have passed on that boulevard. My initial, or first redirect, turned out to be an error which I had to correct right away. The soft redirects simply are invitations for someone to translate the targeted article. No other targets are available. Peter Horn User talk 02:29, 19 September 2018 (UTC) See Streets in Montreal Peter Horn User talk 02:29, 19 September 2018 (UTC)

fr:Palette Rues de Montréal Peter Horn User talk 02:39, 19 September 2018 (UTC)


 * Sorry have to fix your comment as it breaks the page. Matthew_hk   t  c  03:18, 19 September 2018 (UTC)


 * Retarget to Boulevard Saint-Michel, and delete the rest per nom. I did not find adequate targets for them—except for possibly  → Viger Square, which I would be okay with retargeting or deletion per WP:REDLINK. I don't know enough about the notability of streets to decide. -- Tavix  ( talk ) 14:00, 19 September 2018 (UTC)
 * For god's sake, Saint Michel Boulevard IS IN Montreal, NOT IN Paris. This new redirect is pure and unadulterated nonsense and as such I'll eliminate it. Peter Horn User talk 15:10, 19 September 2018 (UTC)
 * It looks like there is also one in Belgium. However, the one in Paris is the only one the English Wikipedia currently has an article on. -- Tavix ( talk ) 15:22, 19 September 2018 (UTC)
 * The corresponding article in the French Wiki is fr:Boulevard Saint-Michel (Montréal) Peter Horn User talk 15:29, 19 September 2018 (UTC)


 * Redirect Saint Michel Boulevard per Tavix; delete the others as lacking any potential new target at all. Redirects must not be used to funnel readers to non-English Wikipedias as a substitute for English content — the vast majority of users of the English Wikipedia cannot read French at all, so redirecting them there in lieu of an English article helps them not one whit. The foreign language Wikipedias are allowed to be linked to via the ill template, so that the link parenthetically appears after an internal-to-en redlink and then automatically disappears as soon as the redlink blues in — but editors are not allowed to force readers to the other-language Wikipedia by using redirects or offlinking to fr instead of leaving a redlink for the English article to eventually occupy. And no, the fact that the one in Montreal was the target chosen by the creator of this redirect does not mean that it's the only valid use of the name, either — if somebody wants to tackle an English article about the boul. Saint-Michel in Montreal, then we can reconvert the redirect into a disambiguation page once that article's in place, but as long as the one in Paris is the only article that we have on here, then the one in Montreal doesn't get to claim primary topic rights over an ambiguous form of their shared name. Bearcat (talk) 16:28, 19 September 2018 (UTC)
 * Retarget Saint Michel Boulevard and delete the rest per Tavix and Bearcat. These are useful to a small minority of readers, but to the vast majority are actively confusing and unhelpful. – Arms &amp; Hearts (talk) 22:51, 19 September 2018 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page.

Post-classical music
 Closed discussion, see full discussion. Result was:
 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more redirects. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the redirect's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was delete.  --BDD (talk) 14:54, 25 September 2018 (UTC)


 * Post-classical music → Romantic music (talk · links · [//en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Post-classical_music&action=history history] · stats)     [ Closure:  ]

Redirect not mentioned in target article. It's also just wrong, as "post-classical" does not refer to Romantic music in the Beethoven-Wagner-Strauss sense, which is just normal classical music and not "post" anything — rather, the term refers to a contemporary subgenre of classical music that incorporates influences from genres such as jazz or rock or pop or hip hop, and thus is "post-classical" rather than "purist". For example, the reason I caught this is because it was being linked to in Wolastoqiyik Lintuwakonawa, a profoundly contemporary album (complete with sampling!) that's not even remotely Beethovenesque. Bearcat (talk) 17:36, 18 September 2018 (UTC)
 * Post-Classical Music → Romantic music (talk · links · [//en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Post-Classical_Music&action=history history] · stats)     [ Closure:  ]
 * Delete as confusing. Based on the Classical music article, it seems that this can refer to Romantic music, Modernist music, Contemporary classical music, Postmodern music and Post-postmodern instrumentation. However, all of them are not called as such. -- Lenticel ( talk ) 01:30, 19 September 2018 (UTC)
 * Delete. The current target is clearly wrong, and there are no obvious alternatives. It would be nice if we could add a sourced mention of this phrase to Contemporary classical music or Postmodern music, which seem like the most closely connected topics, but in the absence of such a mention this is no use to anyone. Joseph Horowitz is described as having coined the phrase "to describe an emerging 21st century musical landscape", but I don't think retargeting to his article is a good option as this is (1) an unsourced claim about a living person, and (2) probably false or at least ambiguous, given that the phrase was in use in 1979, so can't have been coined to describe a 21st-century tendency. Do you want to add the capitalised version Post-Classical Music to this nomination? – Arms &amp; Hearts (talk) 22:43, 19 September 2018 (UTC)
 * Yeah, probably should. Didn't know about that. I'm more daunted by the process of bundling nominations here than I am at AFD or CFD, though, because that mess of coding at the top of this discussion is terrifying me shitless — if you have more experience adding a second entry to a bundled nomination here than I do, could you help out? Bearcat (talk) 22:49, 19 September 2018 (UTC)
 * I have added the capitalised redirect to this nomination. Doing so is as simple as adding  - the template handles all the complicated stuff. Thryduulf (talk) 23:20, 19 September 2018 (UTC)
 * Ah, okay,thanks. I guess even old farts like me are never too old to learn new stuff after all! Bearcat (talk) 23:24, 19 September 2018 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page.

Motor Cycling (magazine)
 Closed discussion, see full discussion. Result was:
 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more redirects. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the redirect's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was delete  . -- Patar knight - chat/contributions 01:14, 25 September 2018 (UTC)


 * Motor Cycling (magazine0 → Motor Cycling (magazine) (talk · links · [//en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Motor_Cycling_(magazine0&action=history history] · stats)     [ Closure:  ]

This was created in 2008 as an article, the content of which was cut-and-paste moved to the correct title 3 minutes later by the same author (Thruxton) who redirected it. In 2014 Rocknrollmancer tagged it for speedy deletion under criterion R3, but EurekaLott correctly declined this as the redirect was not recently created, noting it would be a good candidate for RfD but it was never brought here. Thryduulf (talk) 17:32, 18 September 2018 (UTC)
 * Delete. Serves no useful purpose. Bearcat (talk) 18:18, 18 September 2018 (UTC)
 * Delete, as above. Eagleash (talk) 19:48, 18 September 2018 (UTC)
 * Delete per WP:RDAB (")" is the shift character of the "0" key on standard keyboards). — Godsy (TALK CONT ) 23:47, 18 September 2018 (UTC)
 * Delete per above -- Lenticel ( talk ) 00:07, 19 September 2018 (UTC)
 * Delete: it's just a typing error and has no use. ww2censor (talk) 10:35, 19 September 2018 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page.

Mezőceked (
 Closed discussion, see full discussion. Result was:
 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more redirects. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the redirect's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was delete.  --BDD (talk) 14:53, 25 September 2018 (UTC)


 * Mezőceked ( → Valea Largă (talk · links · [//en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Mez%C5%91ceked_(&action=history history] · stats)     [ Closure:  ]
 * Petele ( → Petelea (talk · links · [//en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Petele_(&action=history history] · stats)     [ Closure:  ]
 * Petele ( → Petelea (talk · links · [//en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Petele_(&action=history history] · stats)     [ Closure:  ]

Delete. Another deliberate creation (by a different editor to the nomination below) but with only 5 hits this year. "Mezőceked" is the Hungarian name for this settlement in Romania according to the lead of the article (it is very common to give the Hungarian names of Romanian places), so it is only the unmatched parenthesis that is implausible - Mezőceked already exists as a redirect, also created by the author of this redirect but 8 minutes later. Thryduulf (talk) 17:22, 18 September 2018 (UTC)
 * I've just added Petele ( to this discussion as that is another redirect from the Hungarian name of a Romanian settlement created by the same editor where they later created the same redirect without the parenthesis to the same target (in this case it was a few days later). [[User:Thryduulf|Thryduulf (talk) 22:23, 18 September 2018 (UTC)
 * Delete. Unlike the Lydia Hedberg situation below, I can at least see a plausible explanation for how this happened — typo which the creator self-corrected a few minutes later — but if the correctly formatted redirect already exists, this one serves no useful purpose. Bearcat (talk) 18:17, 18 September 2018 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. <b style="color:red">Please do not modify it.</b> Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page.

Lydia Hedberg (
<div class="boilerplate rfd vfd xfd-closed" style="background:#FFEEDD; margin-top:0.5em; padding:0 10px 0 10px; border:1px solid #888888;"> Closed discussion, see full discussion. Result was:
 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more redirects. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the redirect's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was delete.  --BDD (talk) 14:53, 25 September 2018 (UTC)


 * <span id="Lydia Hedberg (">Lydia Hedberg ( → Lydia Hedberg (talk · links · [//en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Lydia_Hedberg_(&action=history history] · stats)     [ Closure:  ]

Delete. Unlike almost all the redirects I've seen ending in an unmatched opening parenthesis, this one wasn't created from a page move but as a deliberate creation. It doesn't strike me as particularly plausible search term, and 8 hits this year is not indicative of significant use either. Thryduulf (talk) 17:13, 18 September 2018 (UTC)
 * Delete. This serves no useful purpose, and I'm really struggling to understand why the bloody hell anybody would ever think it was worth doing in the first place. Bearcat (talk) 18:15, 18 September 2018 (UTC)
 * Delete per nom -- Lenticel ( talk ) 00:06, 19 September 2018 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. <b style="color:red">Please do not modify it.</b> Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page.

Tai Po Market railway station
<div class="boilerplate rfd vfd xfd-closed" style="background:#FFEEDD; margin-top:0.5em; padding:0 10px 0 10px; border:1px solid #888888;"> Closed discussion, see full discussion. Result was:
 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more redirects. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the redirect's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was retarget  to Tai Po Market station. ~  Amory <small style="color:#555"> (u • t • c) 18:44, 1 October 2018 (UTC)


 * Tai Po Market railway station → Hong Kong Railway Museum (talk · links · [//en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Tai_Po_Market_railway_station&action=history history] · stats)     [ Closure:  ]

It should be "re-targeting" to Tai Po Market station (from Hong Kong Railway Museum). The new and old physical structures of the station were both referred as "railway station" under the government owned corporation Kowloon-Canton Railway Corporation, but located in different site. The new station was opened many years before the railway line was rebranding to East Rail Line, and way before the takeover by Mass Transit Railway Corporation. Or in other words, despite the new station currently not usually refer as "railway station" due to the two events, in the past it was. The museum was always refer as Old Tai Po Market railway station, thus not confusing if removing the redirect. Matthew_hk  t  c  15:58, 18 September 2018 (UTC)


 * Since there is no free English newspaper archive database for 1980s, in https://mmis.hkpl.gov.hk (MMIS of Hong Kong Public Libraries) there is article in Chinese, stating the new station as "railway station".


 * -- Matthew_hk   t  c  16:49, 18 September 2018 (UTC)


 * Comment. At first glance searches for <tt>"Tai Po Market railway station" -Wikipedia</tt> so that by far the primary topic is the museum/old station, but these are almost (but not entirely) parts of the phrases "Old Tai Po Market railway station" or "Former Tai Po...". Excluding the word "railway" from the search and the results are fairly mixed between the current station and the museum station. Exclude the words "old" and "former" but not "railway" and there are far fewer hits but most of them are for the current station. I've not been able to find any naming conventions for Hong Kong stations, but none of the MTR stations articles are named "railway station" and the few I spot checked didn't have redirects with that title either. All this boils down to my not immediately knowing what I think is best, other than it being essential for hatnotes to link the two articles. I'll alert the relevant Wikiprojects about this discussion. Thryduulf (talk) 17:01, 18 September 2018 (UTC)


 * I haven't search SCMP the single notable English newspaper of HK, but Sha Tin station was known as Sha Tin railway station in Chinese until the obsolete of KCRC as the operator of the East Rail Line (formerly Kowloon-Canton railway) and West Rail Line, which MTR, the operator of the mass transit railway in the city centre, takeover. East Rail Line was a rural-urban railway (and cross-border to Mainland China) which had a schedule of 1 hour and only electrified and upgrade as a mass-transit railway system for the new town (new suburb) which was completed in late 1980s. Matthew_hk   t  c  17:08, 18 September 2018 (UTC)
 * I don't understand why that is relevant? Thryduulf (talk) 17:23, 18 September 2018 (UTC)


 * In the past all railway station were called "foo railway station" in Hong Kong, so it is relevant that Tai Po Market railway station was the name of current Tai Po Market Station as well as the old Tai Po Market railway station, the location where the museum was housed. Also, it would create much bias on searching in English and consider only the web result. The usage of "foo railway station" was obsolete in recent year (replaced by foo station), but for disambiguation purpose, modern Hong Kong terminology still used foo railway station sometimes, if there is bus station from the same place.  Matthew_hk   t  c  17:39, 18 September 2018 (UTC)
 * What matters for redirects of this sort is what people are looking for if they use this search term. Historical use can play a part in that, but what the term means today is by far the most significant. Thryduulf (talk) 18:11, 18 September 2018 (UTC)

The most significant Tai Po Market railway station in Chinese language, was the new one. Since the native English speaker accounted for less than 5% of population, i am not sure how many people want to find the museum using the term "Tai Po Market railway station". Matthew_hk  t  c  18:41, 18 September 2018 (UTC)


 * For example, in this entry of HK gov database, "Tai Po Market Railway Station Bus Terminus", refer to the bus terminus next to the new station, not the old one. Matthew_hk   t  c  18:44, 18 September 2018 (UTC)


 * the station in this link (a press release of KMB), refer to the new station, also this press release of HK gov, use "Tai Po Market Railway Station" for the new station. Matthew_hk   t  c  19:32, 18 September 2018 (UTC)


 * Retarget to Tai Po Market station and hatnote for the current target, per nominator:
 * Reliable sources still sometimes call the East Rail stations as "railway stations" even years after the MTR–KCR merger, per the above discussion
 * The Google Books, scmp.com, and gov.hk hits for "Tai Po Market railway station" nearly always prefix the name with "old"/"former" or suffix it with "museum" when they mean the defunct station. They don't prefix it with terms like "new" or "current" when they mean the station that's still in use.
 * The railway museum doesn't even beat the current station on page views |Hong_Kong_Railway_Museum|Tai_Po_Market_railway_station
 * All this suggests the station that's still in use is the WP:PRIMARYREDIRECT for bare "Tai Po Market railway station". 59.149.124.29 (talk) 00:56, 19 September 2018 (UTC)


 * Retarget to Tai Po Market station Kowloon Motor Bus used to refer to the MTR station as "Tai Po Market Railway Station", so this is a reasonable search term. See for example, , . feminist (talk) 18:21, 24 September 2018 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. <b style="color:red">Please do not modify it.</b> Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page.