Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2019 November 21

November 21
This is a list of redirects that have been proposed for deletion or other action on November 21, 2019.

Television app
Relisted, see Redirects for discussion/Log/2019 December 6%23Television app

Radio-tellurium
 Closed discussion, see full discussion. Result was:
 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more redirects. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the redirect's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was retarget  to Polonium. No clear preference on use of hat-note.  MBisanz  talk 20:03, 1 December 2019 (UTC)


 * Radio-tellurium → Polonium (talk · links · [//en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Radio-tellurium&action=history history] · stats)     [ Closure:  ]

I'm not sure if this should point to polonium-210 or isotopes of tellurium. WP:RS shows that this term refers to both: it is a historical name for 210Po, and is now used to describe radioactive isotopes of tellurium in the environment such as 127mTe and 129mTe, but the primary topic is unclear. ComplexRational (talk) 15:00, 11 November 2019 (UTC)


 * Keep and hatnote to the isotopes. This seems to be the former name which was debated before made official.  AngusWOOF  ( bark  •  sniff ) 21:52, 11 November 2019 (UTC)
 * Keep and hatnote per AngusWOOF or make into a dab, as hat-note seems expensive for this case. All the best: Rich Farmbrough, 11:55, 12 November 2019 (UTC).


 * Redirect to modern name (Isotopes of tellurium), and add hatnote there re historical name + link. Since old meaning likely is not used that often any more, and so cannot claim main target. (OTOH, someone coming from an old source and missing the hatnote may end up confused/mislead. To prevent this, option 2: make full DAB, will surely do no harm). -DePiep (talk) 17:55, 12 November 2019 (UTC)
 * Keep and hatnote seems the best option here. &#32; Headbomb {t · c · p · b} 12:41, 14 November 2019 (UTC)
 * Redirect to modern name per . Differing hatnotes appear to have been expressed and I'm not sure this is best; or,
 * Disambiguate per and  above. Doug Mehus  T · C  15:11, 19 November 2019 (UTC)

 Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.

Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, BDD (talk) 22:17, 21 November 2019 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page.

Trade and commerce
 Closed discussion, see full discussion. Result was:
 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more redirects. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the redirect's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was delete  . The title will remain open for a merged article, if that goes through. --BDD (talk) 16:14, 2 December 2019 (UTC)


 * Trade and commerce → Section 91(2) of the Constitution Act, 1867 (talk · links · [//en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Trade_and_commerce&action=history history] · stats)     [ Closure:  ]


 * Trade and Commerce → Section 91(2) of the Constitution Act, 1867 (talk · links · [//en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Trade_and_Commerce&action=history history] · stats)     [ Closure:  ]

People searching for this may want to go to trade or commerce (see also the merger proposal there). Too generic of a search term to point to an obscure legal act. Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus&#124; reply here 09:39, 10 November 2019 (UTC)

Propose delete-ing Trade and Commerce in tandem per find from Doug Mehus  T · C  22:57, 21 November 2019 (UTC)


 * This probably should wait until the merger discussion concludes. If the articles are merged, this can point to the merged article. If not, it should be deleted per WP:XY. - Eureka Lott 14:53, 10 November 2019 (UTC)
 * Delete, without prejudice against recreation as a redirect to somewhere else (or even the main title of the new article) based on the outcome of that merger proposal. Trade and commerce are worldwide phenomena, not uniquely Canadian issues, so redirecting a general international term to one passage about it in Canadian law is not an appropriate use of the title regardless of the outcome of any other discussion. Bearcat (talk) 21:32, 11 November 2019 (UTC)
 * Delete per or, alternatively, Rename to Trade and commerce power (Canada's Constitution Act, 1867). I'm not sure what merger proposal is relevant here. I couldn't find it.--Doug Mehus  T · C  17:15, 17 November 2019 (UTC)
 * Merger proposal between trade and commerce themselves, as noted on both pages Bearcat (talk) 17:18, 17 November 2019 (UTC)
 * Ah, thanks, that makes sense. I was just looking on the Section 91(2) of the Constitution Act, 1867, page. --Doug Mehus T · C  15:28, 18 November 2019 (UTC)

 Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus. Relisting comment: There appears to be consensus to delete here, but what about Trade and Commerce? Should it be added to the discussion?

Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, BDD (talk) 21:53, 21 November 2019 (UTC)
 * Comment:, good find! I wouldn't object if you wanted to make an executive decision and delete Trade and Commerce in tandem with Trade and commerce, linking to this discussion for both. --Doug Mehus  T · C  22:52, 21 November 2019 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page.

CT Iowa
 Closed discussion, see full discussion. Result was:
 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more redirects. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the redirect's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was delete  .  MBisanz  talk 20:04, 1 December 2019 (UTC)


 * CT Iowa → Iowa (talk · links · [//en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=CT_Iowa&action=history history] · stats)     [ Closure:  ]

No mention in the target, not clear why this redirect should exist. While not literally the same redirect, see this past nomination signed,Rosguill talk 21:43, 21 November 2019 (UTC)
 * Delete per nom and salt if necessary. There's no indication that people use this term. - Eureka Lott 23:18, 21 November 2019 (UTC)
 * Delete per others above; an Internet search found no use of this term. Geolodus (talk) 16:15, 22 November 2019 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page.

Mo Robinson
 Closed discussion, see full discussion. Result was:
 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more redirects. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the redirect's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was Delete. Without prejudice to recreation if they are mentioned in an article in the future. Thryduulf (talk) 15:41, 2 December 2019 (UTC)


 * Mo Robinson → Essex lorry deaths (talk · links · [//en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Mo_Robinson&action=history history] · stats)     [ Closure:  ]
 * Maurice Robinson (lorry driver) → Essex lorry deaths (talk · links · [//en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Maurice_Robinson_(lorry_driver)&action=history history] · stats)     [ Closure:  ]

While one Mo Robinson has been charged with manslaughter in this case, he is not currently mentioned in the article and thus I'm not sure it's appropriate to have this redirect. signed,Rosguill talk 21:36, 21 November 2019 (UTC)


 * Delete per WP:BLPNAME and as the article talkpage consensus is not to mention him in the article. -- DeFacto (talk). 21:55, 21 November 2019 (UTC)


 * Keep, now that he has pleaded guilty - the only suspect in the case to do so. Jim Michael (talk) 12:55, 25 November 2019 (UTC)
 * The discussion on the talk page of the article in question seems to be leaning toward a consensus to not include any information about Robinson until an actual conviction is produced. signed,Rosguill talk 19:41, 26 November 2019 (UTC)


 * Delete - he's not named in the article, so the redirect is likely to leave readers confused. Removing the redirect will indicate to them we have nothing on the subject (which is, in essence, correct).  If consensus on the inclusion of his name in the article changes, then recreation of the redirect would be appropriate. Wily D  13:19, 2 December 2019 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page.

Jesus Is Born Out Christmas
<div class="boilerplate rfd vfd xfd-closed" style="background:#FFEEDD; margin-top:0.5em; padding:0 10px 0 10px; border:1px solid #888888;"> Closed discussion, see full discussion. Result was:
 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more redirects. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the redirect's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was delete  .  MBisanz  talk 20:06, 1 December 2019 (UTC)


 * Jesus Is Born Out Christmas → Kanye West albums discography (talk · links · [//en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Jesus_Is_Born_Out_Christmas&action=history history] · stats)     [ Closure:  ]

"Jesus Is Born" is a track by Kanye West. It comes out on Christmas. "Jesus Is Born Out Christmas" is not a track by Kanye West and is essentially an ad. signed,Rosguill talk 21:16, 21 November 2019 (UTC)


 * Delete per nom and neologism that has yet to be popularized. AngusWOOF  ( bark  •  sniff ) 20:17, 22 November 2019 (UTC)
 * Delete per nom and AngusWOOF, as an invented (on-wiki) neologism. -- Black Falcon (talk) 05:36, 29 November 2019 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. <b style="color:red">Please do not modify it.</b> Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page.

Portal:Harry Potter
<div class="boilerplate rfd vfd xfd-closed" style="background:#FFEEDD; margin-top:0.5em; padding:0 10px 0 10px; border:1px solid #888888;"> Closed discussion, see full discussion. Result was:
 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more redirects. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the redirect's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was delete  . The continuing disagreements about portals aside, which is almost infinitely out of the scope of RfD, the only remaining arguments to keep here are of the "redirects are cheap" variety, which is always rebuttable if good other arguments are made that suggest why a redirect isn't helpful. A significant majority of other participants have made delete arguments that suggest the Speculative Fiction portal is just not closely-related enough to count as a valid target for a reader looking for a Harry Potter portal. There therefore seems to be a consensus that it is unlikely to be a sufficiently helpful redirect to outweigh it giving a false impression of the specific portal existing. ~  mazca  talk 11:48, 3 December 2019 (UTC)


 * Portal:Harry Potter → Portal:Speculative fiction (talk · links · [//en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Portal:Harry_Potter&action=history history] · stats)     [ Closure:  ]

This is an unhelpful redirect. I am sure it was crated in good faith after the deletion of Portal:Harry Potter, but the target Portal:Speculative fiction contains almost nothing about HP. A search of Portal:Speculative fiction +sub-pages shows that the only mentions of HP are:
 * trivia at Portal:Speculative fiction/Did you know/1510
 * Only one of 57 selected articles: Portal:Speculative fiction/Selected biography/7 (article: J. K. Rowling), plus various transclusions of that page
 * Some mentions in archives

Readers following the link and expecting to find significant coverage of Harry Potter will be disappointed. It's better that readers interested in HP go to the GA-class head article Harry Potter. -- Brown HairedGirl  (talk) • (contribs) 11:44, 13 November 2019 (UTC)
 * Delete This is a useless redirect, since it sends readers to a group of pages that near exclusively have nothing to do with Harry Potter. The GA-Class article Harry Potter is all readers need. Newshunter12 (talk) 16:45, 13 November 2019 (UTC)
 * Keep as it's a portal redirect, and the only valid target for it in the portal namespace is P:SF. Instead of nominating everything for deletion (which seems to be your MO lately), how about you fix it, BrownHairedGirl? You seem bent on removing practically everything to do with portals. Add a few more mentions of Harry Potter stuff to P:SF; there are certainly enough things that could be added (movies, books, possibly characters, etc.), thereby improving the wiki instead of slowly whittling everything away. ··· 日本穣 ·  投稿  · Talk to Nihonjoe ·  Join WP Japan ! 21:25, 13 November 2019 (UTC) I really don't care anymore. Do whatever you want with this redirect. You obviously are goign to do whatever you want regardless of anything else. ··· 日本穣  ·  投稿  · Talk to Nihonjoe ·  Join WP Japan ! 16:50, 27 November 2019 (UTC)
 * your hostile tone lacks WP:AGF. Please reconsider that.
 * Keep as it's a portal redirect, and the only valid target for it in the portal namespace is P:SF seems to me to a kinda meaningless comment. I am not aware of any guidance or policy which says that that a potential or deleted portal title should be created as  a redirect to anything.  On the contrary, huge numbers of portal redirects (e.g from country to continent, or from US state to Portal:United States) have been deleted at RFD in recent months precisely because the target contains too  little about the redirect title.
 * Speculative fiction is not my field, so I definitely will not go making substantive changes to the portal. I deplore the way that many portals's lists of selected articles are being rewritten by editors with no demonstrable expertise in the field, and I absolutely refuse to emulate their conduct.
 * SpecFic is also a very broad field, and I AGF that the editors who do have familiarity with the field are those best placed to judge the appropriate balance of topics per WP:WEIGHT. If you believe that the current balance is wrong, then you are of course free to propose that HP be given greater prominence. But if you do so, I hope that it will be on the basis of an assessment of HP's significance across the whole huge breadth and history of speculative fiction, rather than a case of WP:Recentism. Your post here seem to me to be suggesting or implying that the portal should be restructured to justify the existence of the redirect, which would be a back-to-front approach. --  Brown HairedGirl  (talk) • (contribs) 23:51, 13 November 2019 (UTC)
 * I created the SF portal, almost entirely by myself. It took almost a year of working on it to get it as robust as it is. I also took it to featured status (before the community decided no portal deserved that status, and summarily made all featured portals "former featured portals"). Since pretty much no one else ever edits it or participates in any discussions about it, I see nothing wrong with "restructuring" it to include more HP content. It has noting to do with recentism, either. The SF portal has content from a wide breadth of years.
 * As for my "hostility", it likely comes from multiple reasons: your crusade against portals over the last several months, the community complaining that portals don't get enough visits, and then refusing to incorporate links to the best portals (even on a rotating basis) on the main page, thereby relegating them to secondary status and making them practically impossible to find for the casual visitor. You have no idea how much work goes into creating a really solid portal, yet you seem determined to wipe them out. So yes, just a little warranted hostility. ··· 日本穣 ·  投稿  · Talk to Nihonjoe ·  Join WP Japan ! 00:39, 14 November 2019 (UTC)
 * No, @Nihonjoe, that is not Warranted hostility; it is just venting steam. It is a mixture of your misplaced resentment that the consensus at about 1000 MFDs has not gone the way you would like, and your wholly unfounded attempt to blame me for decisions related to the main page and to the ending of the featured portals process, in both of which I have had no part. Your attempt to blame me for decisions taken before my involvement in portals is very shoddy conduct, and your WP:HARDWORK is a classic argument to avoid in deletion discussions.  (I don't doubt the hard work.  I do question the value to readers and to the encyclopedia).
 * Please drop the battlefield approach, and try to concentrate on the actual issue under discussion here, which is the redirect. -- Brown HairedGirl  (talk) • (contribs) 06:39, 14 November 2019 (UTC)


 * PS I just checked the redirects to Portal:Speculative fiction, and see that there are two similar redirects created by Nihonjoe on the same day as this one: and .  Both raise similar issues. --  Brown HairedGirl  (talk) • (contribs) 06:45, 14 November 2019 (UTC)
 * Related discussion: WP:Redirects for discussion/Log/2019 November 14. Another redirect to the same portal. --  Brown HairedGirl  (talk) • (contribs) 07:03, 14 November 2019 (UTC)
 * Keep - as redirects are WP:CHEAP, last I checked Harry Potter fell under Speculative fiction. - Knowledgekid87 (talk) 18:22, 14 November 2019 (UTC)
 * @Knowledgekid87, indeed redirects are WP:CHEAP ... but how does it help the reader to redirected to a portal which contains almost nothing on the topic of the redirected title? That's like a bait-and-switch exercise. --  Brown HairedGirl  (talk) • (contribs) 18:44, 14 November 2019 (UTC)
 * Who else is going to type in Portal related info other than editors looking for edit history and a quick-link? As long as the portals are related and there are mentions then it shouldn't be an issue. - Knowledgekid87 (talk) 18:50, 14 November 2019 (UTC)
 * Keep redirects are cheap and this RfD is a waste of time. Lepricavark (talk) 19:24, 14 November 2019 (UTC)
 * , I respectfully disagree that this RfD is "a waste of time" per the varied responses and diverse rationales, especially on the "delete" side of it. We now have four people (nom included) expressing a desire to delete, each with good, and different, reasons. I think this was a good nom by . --Doug Mehus T · C  20:09, 18 November 2019 (UTC)

<div class="xfd_relist" style="border-top: 1px solid #AAA; border-bottom: 1px solid #AAA; padding: 0px 25px;"> Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
 * Comment: P:SF Now has a large number of Harry Potter-related articles in its rotation (over 20 articles, I believe). See here, here, and here. ··· 日本穣 ·  投稿  · Talk to Nihonjoe ·  Join WP Japan ! 01:55, 16 November 2019 (UTC)
 * Delete per nom. I don't think this is a helpful redirect and, technically, there may be a reason to delete it due to the usage of the pseudo-namespace "Portal:" prefix. --Doug Mehus T · C  15:47, 18 November 2019 (UTC)
 * It's hardly a "pseudo-namespace". If you go to this page, you'll see that it's a very real namespace (namespace "100", in fact). Anything in that "Namespace" drop-down is (oddly enough) an actual namespace. ··· 日本穣 ·  投稿  · Talk to Nihonjoe ·  Join WP Japan ! 06:14, 19 November 2019 (UTC)
 * Delete per WP:SURPRISE: it is not at all clear that the various Harry Potter media even meet the definition of speculative fiction. UnitedStatesian (talk) 20:05, 18 November 2019 (UTC)
 * All Harry Potter media is speculative fiction because all of it is fantasy. All fantasy falls under speculative fiction. ··· 日本穣 ·  投稿  · Talk to Nihonjoe ·  Join WP Japan ! 06:14, 19 November 2019 (UTC)

Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Steel1943  (talk) 19:42, 21 November 2019 (UTC)
 * Note I have reverted a series of additions by User:Nihonjoe to Portal:Speculative fiction/Selected works, because they created a grossly unbalanced list, where 21% of the entire list was devoted to just three series of mass-market contemporary speculative fiction. For a full, explanation, see Portal talk:Speculative fiction/Selected works.
 * Note that Nihonjoe's comment above timestamped  suggests that the imbalance may have been created with the aim of influencing this discussion, rather than of ensuring that the portal reflects the core policy of WP:NPOV. --  Brown HairedGirl  (talk) • (contribs) 09:01, 27 November 2019 (UTC)
 * What is wrong with you? I added articles directly related to this portal because they were directly related. I've pretty much written off this discussion as a lost cause. There are too many people who seem to agree with you hell-bent crusade to destroy all portals. Now, you vandalize a portal because you choose to assume bad faith on my part. You have no valid reason for undoing these additions, especially since I added many additional articles clearly not related to Harry Potter. The articles added were generally featured, A, B, and GA articles. You clearly have no clue what you're doing (reverting edits you "don't have the energy to evaluate"), and are just trying to wreak havoc within portals about which you know absolutely nothing. Please, go try to be "productive" elsewhere. You're causing nothing but problems here with your ham-fisted attempts to do whatever it is you're trying to do. ··· 日本穣  ·  投稿  · Talk to Nihonjoe ·  Join WP Japan ! 16:50, 27 November 2019 (UTC)
 * please strike the personal attacks, and also strike that bogus accusation of vandalism (see WP:NOTVAND).
 * As I clearly noted both above and on the portal page, I reverted because your edits had created a massive imbalance, which I took the time to document. You have chosen to entirely ignore that. I have replied at Portal talk:Speculative fiction/Selected works to your attacks there, and asked you to follow the WP:BRD cycle. -- Brown HairedGirl  (talk) • (contribs) 17:36, 27 November 2019 (UTC)
 * Thanks for doing that, and for the homework you put into your portal and related redirect nomination discussions. Boy the time we waste on these portals! Doug Mehus  T · C  16:00, 27 November 2019 (UTC)
 * And now you're assuming bad faith on my part, too. I've done nothing with this portal except try to improve it. I went through the list of featured, GA, A, and B articles for science fiction and horror and added any that weren't in the portal. Exactly how is that not "fair play"? Go ahead and delete the damn redirect. I really don't care anymore. ··· 日本穣 ·  投稿  · Talk to Nihonjoe ·  Join WP Japan ! 16:50, 27 November 2019 (UTC)
 * For clarity, I said, "potentially." I didn't say it was necessarily not fair play. Nonetheless, I apologize if you assumed I was not acting in good faith. I appreciate your clarification and am satisfied that you weren't acting in a manner that wasn't fair. Based on your reply I will strike that portion of my earlier comment. Doug Mehus  T · C  16:54, 27 November 2019 (UTC)
 * Comment I will not be commenting here further. BHG has sucked all the joy out of working on enwiki. ··· 日本穣 ·  投稿  · Talk to Nihonjoe ·  Join WP Japan ! 17:01, 27 November 2019 (UTC)
 * WP:WEIGHT is part of WP:NPOV, which is a core policy of en.wp. If you are unable or unwilling to consider NPOV as an issue wrt the portal, and regard it as having sucked all the joy out of Wikipedia, then we have a problem. --  Brown HairedGirl  (talk) • (contribs) 17:39, 27 November 2019 (UTC)


 * Delete - We no longer have a portal on Harry Potter, and this redirect gives readers the (false) impression that we do. It is, in my mind, the equivalent of redirecting Portal:Spanish Civil War (or any other war) to Portal:History because the former happens to fall under the scope of the latter. -- Black Falcon (talk) 05:35, 29 November 2019 (UTC)
 * Delete per Black Falcon and my comments on the discussion for The Prisoner. We don't have a portal for Harry Potter, nor any portal with a substantial focus on it. --BDD (talk) 16:13, 2 December 2019 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. <b style="color:red">Please do not modify it.</b> Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page.

Evercrack
<div class="boilerplate rfd vfd xfd-closed" style="background:#FFEEDD; margin-top:0.5em; padding:0 10px 0 10px; border:1px solid #888888;"> Closed discussion, see full discussion. Result was:
 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more redirects. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the redirect's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was retarget  to EverQuest. --BDD (talk) 21:30, 21 November 2019 (UTC)

<div class="xfd_relist" style="border-top: 1px solid #AAA; border-bottom: 1px solid #AAA; padding: 0px 25px;"> Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
 * Evercrack → Video game addiction (talk · links · [//en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Evercrack&action=history history] · stats)     [ Closure:  ]
 * EverCrack → Video game addiction (talk · links · [//en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=EverCrack&action=history history] · stats)     [ Closure:  ]
 * Delete Unmentioned, refers to EverQuest being addictive. &#32; Headbomb {t · c · p · b} 10:07, 13 November 2019 (UTC)
 * Alternatively, could be redirected to EverQuest, where it is mentioned. &#32; Headbomb {t · c · p · b} 10:12, 13 November 2019 (UTC)
 * Delete, although it's well sourced in news articles, it's not worthy enough IMO for a redirect. Also, most sources agree it's an "old" term used at the time, so it's even more irrelevant nowadays. BTW there are a few news articles that make the link between EverCrack and video game addiction, but it's still barely notable IMO. --Signimu (talk) 13:33, 13 November 2019 (UTC)
 * Keep per WP:RECENTISM. It being an old term is not a valid reason to delete it. As Signimu noted, it is covered in multiple, third-party sources, so it's a valid redirect. I'd be fine with changing it to point to EverQuest, though. ··· 日本穣 ·  投稿  · Talk to Nihonjoe ·  Join WP Japan ! 21:28, 13 November 2019 (UTC)
 * Keep per Nihonjoe's comments. Redirects don't have to be notable since they're not articles. They're possible search terms - what is a user wanting to read when he types in "Evercrack"? Redirecting it to the EverQuest section seems better, since it refers to that game, and there's a link there to Video game addiction. PaulGS (talk) 21:53, 14 November 2019 (UTC)
 * Retarget or Keep per PaulGS and Nihonjoe. Outdated terms are actually often more useful redirects than contemporary ones as fewer people will know what they mean and so they're more likely to look it up on Wikipedia if they encounter it when reading sources contemporary with the term which are often likely not to define it as it was in common use at the time. Thryduulf (talk) 09:30, 19 November 2019 (UTC)

Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Steel1943  (talk) 19:42, 21 November 2019 (UTC)
 * A relist? Consensus is clearly a redirect to EverQuest. &#32; Headbomb {t · c · p · b} 20:10, 21 November 2019 (UTC)
 * , agree from reading the "keep" !vote arguments, they do either favour or alternatively retargeting to the below. I think sometimes editors !vote "keep" when they mean retarget, which adds to the confusion if patrolling editors/administrators are going through quickly. I probably would've closed as retarget, but that's just me. Doug Mehus T · C  20:36, 21 November 2019 (UTC)


 * Retarget to EverQuest, where this subject is described in more detail than the current target. Geolodus (talk) 20:25, 21 November 2019 (UTC)
 * Retarget per above. Failing that, if suitable disambiguate targets are or were to become available, that is also possible now or in the future. --Doug Mehus  T · C  20:33, 21 November 2019 (UTC)
 * Comment to or patrolling editors, can you assess the consensus here now given it's been a full week since the relist? Doug Mehus  T · C  20:38, 21 November 2019 (UTC)
 * It's been less than a few hours since the relist. The relist is just unnecessary.&#32; Headbomb {t · c · p · b} 20:40, 21 November 2019 (UTC)
 * , agree completely. There's enough of an RfD backlog here. This seems to me an example of relist bias told me about because sometimes non-admins, who can't close as delete, will relist to help clear the backlog but it just postpones things. Odd, though, since "delete" isn't anywhere close to being consensus. Pinging  to see if they'll consider assessing the consensus here and closing as a non-admin. --Doug Mehus  T · C  20:46, 21 November 2019 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. <b style="color:red">Please do not modify it.</b> Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page.


 * I disagree that there was consensus when I relisted this (was split between "keep" and "retarget"), but am not going to dispute this close since there are more important things to do on Wikipedia than dispute an early close essentially forced by complaints. Steel1943  (talk) 13:19, 23 November 2019 (UTC)

American Indian history
Relisted, see Redirects for discussion/Log/2019 December 3%23American Indian history

Dell Financial Services
Relisted, see Redirects for discussion/Log/2019 December 2%23Dell Financial Services

5 demands
<div class="boilerplate rfd vfd xfd-closed" style="background:#FFEEDD; margin-top:0.5em; padding:0 10px 0 10px; border:1px solid #888888;"> Closed discussion, see full discussion. Result was:
 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more redirects. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the redirect's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was keep  . I think we'll need to see a 5 demands (disambiguation), Five demands (disambiguation), or something similar if there's future talk about repurposing these. --BDD (talk) 16:02, 2 December 2019 (UTC)


 * 5 demands → 2019 Hong Kong protests (talk · links · [//en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=5_demands&action=history history] · stats)     [ Closure:  ]
 * Five demands → 2019 Hong Kong protests (talk · links · [//en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Five_demands&action=history history] · stats)     [ Closure:  ]

This is way too ambiguous of a title for a redirect. Internet search results show that while this phrase has been used in connection with the Hong Kong protests, it also has been used the outcome of recent farmers' protests in India, recent disputes in Nigeria , the 2018 Google walkouts , the 2018 Arizona teachers' strike and likely many more. Given how broad this term is, I think deletion is preferable to disambiguation in order to just let the internal search engine do the work. signed,Rosguill talk 00:28, 9 November 2019 (UTC)


 * Keep: Before voicing an opinion, it should be mentioned that the spelled out version, five demands, also redirects to the same article. With that being said, although the phrase is core to the Hong Kong protests, the connection was difficult to make using Wikipedia's internal search alone. It was only upon Googling the phrase that I found out what it was about, where the first thirteen results are about the protests. This gap in clarity was the reason I made the redirect; to make Wikipedia's search as clear as Google's, and why I'm defending its utility here. Googol30 (talk) 01:19, 9 November 2019 (UTC)

<div class="xfd_relist" style="border-top: 1px solid #AAA; border-bottom: 1px solid #AAA; padding: 0px 25px;"> Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
 * Delete. It is way too broad and ambiguous. The fact that there's a lot of association in Google hits means that there's a lot of recentism going on here, rather than that it is an indication that this is a term that overwhelmingly or specifically refers to the objectives of the protests. --Cold Season (talk) 01:21, 12 November 2019 (UTC)
 * Disambiguate between different uses of this phrase, or failing that, keep. Per Googol30, the internal search engine is inadequate at showing readers topics associated with this term. feminist (talk) 12:33, 12 November 2019 (UTC)
 * Delete or Disambiguate Too ambiguous. Google search algorithms will have a recency bias. If disambiguate is the outcome, my disambiguate is conditional upon redirecting Five demands to the dab page, which alerted us to. Similarly, if delete is the outcome, we should also delete Five demands. Doug Mehus  T · C  01:45, 17 November 2019 (UTC)

Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Steel1943  (talk) 19:39, 21 November 2019 (UTC)
 * Comment I've added Five demands to this discussion, as I think that whatever the consensus is for 5 demands will hold for it as well signed,Rosguill talk 22:10, 21 November 2019 (UTC)
 * Keep. The Hong Kong "five demands" are far and away the primary topic for those searching for the phrase "five demands". Where is the evidence that those searching for the phrase "five demands" would expect something else, and upon seeing those sources, why would a hatnote to a disambig page not suffice for those alts? (not watching, please )  czar  02:20, 22 November 2019 (UTC)
 * Keep per czar. HK's usage of the term "five demands" overshadows essentially everything else. OceanHok (talk) 15:43, 22 November 2019 (UTC)
 * Keep I am underwhelmed by the nomination after clicking through the links. Those show other protests that asked for various stuff which fell into five buckets, but that is not the same as the HK situation. "The five demands" is a well-spread term and could not be replaced by "the five claims" or "demands A through E" (well, I do not know about the Cantonese/Chinese wording, but "five demands" seems to be the most common English translation by far). The sentence fragment "5 demands" could be found in other contexts, but it does not matter because it lacks the special meaning it has in the HK context. "The prestige" is a fairly common sentence fragment in English, but whoever types it in the Wikipedia search box is very likely to be looking for the book (or film) with that title. Tigraan <span title="Send me a silicium letter!" style="color:">Click here to contact me 16:03, 22 November 2019 (UTC)
 * Keep. I agree with Tigraan. There must have been other instances of Three Kingdoms, Ten Percent, etc., but as unique concepts they are article titles without need of disambiguation. Five Demands has become the core of this democratic movement.--Roy17 (talk) 19:16, 23 November 2019 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. <b style="color:red">Please do not modify it.</b> Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page.

Level Playing Field
<div class="boilerplate rfd vfd xfd-closed" style="background:#FFEEDD; margin-top:0.5em; padding:0 10px 0 10px; border:1px solid #888888;"> Closed discussion, see full discussion. Result was:
 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more redirects. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the redirect's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was no consensus  default to keep. This seems to be a fringe case between keeping a R from other capitalization and a redundant redirect getting in the way of other possible applications. But since there is no alternative page content proposed for the current title, I'm defaulting to keep. Deryck C. 17:58, 2 December 2019 (UTC)


 * Level Playing Field → Level playing field (talk · links · [//en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Level_Playing_Field&action=history history] · stats)     [ Closure:  ]

Software automatically handles capitalization differences, making this redirect redundant. MoonyTheDwarf (Braden N.) (talk) 18:59, 8 November 2019 (UTC) <div class="xfd_relist" style="border-top: 1px solid #AAA; border-bottom: 1px solid #AAA; padding: 0px 25px;"> Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
 * Delete per nom, not needed due to the fact Wikipedia's search algorithm already corrects capitalization differences. Kirbanzo (userpage - talk - contribs) 19:43, 8 November 2019 (UTC)
 * Keep per the third paragraph of Naming conventions (capitalization). This is a plausible alternative capitalisation and there are more ways to browse Wikipedia than searching. Geolodus (talk) 20:25, 8 November 2019 (UTC)
 * Keep. Level Playing Field provisions are a recognised legal concept and are often capitalised. JASpencer (talk) 22:23, 8 November 2019 (UTC)
 * Keep per JASPencer, though if we ever have an article on a specific entity by this name—search results on the encyclopedia are showing me a play and a soccer organization—I would be fine with a WP:DIFFCAPS situation. --BDD (talk) 16:39, 20 November 2019 (UTC)

Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Steel1943  (talk) 19:38, 21 November 2019 (UTC)
 * Delete Redirects of this sort risk becoming WP:COSTLY. UnitedStatesian (talk) 19:56, 21 November 2019 (UTC)
 * Keep - clearly redirects reader to the topic they're looking for. Nomination presents no rationale for deletion, nor can I imagine any. Wily D  13:15, 2 December 2019 (UTC)
 * In case you missed it, the rationale for deletion is: Software automatically handles capitalization differences, making this redirect redundant. -- Tavix ( talk ) 13:19, 2 December 2019 (UTC)
 * That's not a rationale for deletion, it's at best a rationale to be totally indifferent to whether or not it's deleted. Wily D 13:23, 2 December 2019 (UTC)
 * That you disagree with the rationale does not make it non-existent. -- Tavix ( talk ) 13:29, 2 December 2019 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. <b style="color:red">Please do not modify it.</b> Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page.

Hop Gar
<div class="boilerplate rfd vfd xfd-closed" style="background:#FFEEDD; margin-top:0.5em; padding:0 10px 0 10px; border:1px solid #888888;"> Closed discussion, see full discussion. Result was:
 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more redirects. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the redirect's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was retarget  to Ten Tigers of Canton. (non-admin closure) feminist (talk) 01:48, 1 December 2019 (UTC)


 * Hop Gar → List of Chinese martial arts (talk · links · [//en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Hop_Gar&action=history history] · stats)     [ Closure:  ]

Not mentioned in target. <b style="color: White">b</b><b style="color: White">uidh</b><b style="color: White">e</b> 19:08, 21 November 2019 (UTC)


 * Retarget to Ten Tigers of Canton, where it is mentioned (as "Hop Family Fist"); it's an ad hoc spelling of the Chinese name (compare Jyutping transcription Haap6 Gaa1 Kyun4). 59.149.124.29 (talk) 13:49, 22 November 2019 (UTC)
 * I support this retarget. For the record, Hop Gar most probably refers to zh:俠家.--Roy17 (talk) 19:16, 23 November 2019 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. <b style="color:red">Please do not modify it.</b> Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page.

At-Tawbah, 9
<div class="boilerplate rfd vfd xfd-closed" style="background:#FFEEDD; margin-top:0.5em; padding:0 10px 0 10px; border:1px solid #888888;"> Closed discussion, see full discussion. Result was:
 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more redirects. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the redirect's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was delete  .  MBisanz  talk 20:07, 1 December 2019 (UTC)


 * <span id="At-Tawbah, 9">At-Tawbah, 9 → Sword Verse (talk · links · [//en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=At-Tawbah,_9&action=history history] · stats)     [ Closure:  ]

The target is about the fifth verse, not the ninth verse. 51.253.234.181 (talk) 18:28, 21 November 2019 (UTC)
 * Retarget to At-Tawba. That's what this redirect refers to, not a specific verse within the sūrah. Geolodus (talk) 19:10, 21 November 2019 (UTC)
 * Delete per nom. Retargeting is unnecessary given this redirect title was created in error, and the article was at this title for 1 minute (see diff). -- Black Falcon (talk) 05:31, 29 November 2019 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. <b style="color:red">Please do not modify it.</b> Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page.

Tropcial rainforests
<div class="boilerplate rfd vfd xfd-closed" style="background:#FFEEDD; margin-top:0.5em; padding:0 10px 0 10px; border:1px solid #888888;"> Closed discussion, see full discussion. Result was:
 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more redirects. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the redirect's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was delete  .  MBisanz  talk 20:07, 1 December 2019 (UTC)


 * Tropcial rainforests → Rainforest (talk · links · [//en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Tropcial_rainforests&action=history history] · stats)     [ Closure:  ]

Unlikely typo and hardly any pageviews. <b style="color:blue; text-shadow:cyan 0.2em 0.2em 0.4em;">CycloneYoris</b> <b style="color:purple">talk!</b> 17:20, 21 November 2019 (UTC)


 * Delete This is surely a typo. If anything, the redirect should be to Tropical rainforest. Gderrin (talk) 20:14, 21 November 2019 (UTC)
 * Delete as an unlikely misspelling. We shouldn't have redirects for typographical errors.  PK  T (alk)  23:03, 21 November 2019 (UTC)
 * Retarget to Tropical rainforest as a r from misspelling. It's an unambiguous term, it's not implausible (merely two letters flipped), and this redirect is quite old. - Eureka Lott 23:09, 21 November 2019 (UTC)
 * Delete per and, secondarily, the nom. Yes, it's a plausible typo per  and ; however, we shouldn't need to have umpteen redirects for every article representing most possible misspellings. It's unwieldy. So, here, I look to the stats, which show it being used, on average, once every 3-4 months. Just as redirects are cheap, as a counter-argument, they can be re-created just as easily. For that reason, I see no benefit to keeping or retargeting. Doug Mehus  T · C  23:14, 21 November 2019 (UTC)
 * I don't know which stats you were looking at, but the Pageviews Analysis for this redirect shows an average of two views per month between October 2017 and October 2019. - Eureka Lott 15:44, 22 November 2019 (UTC)
 * I didn't actually calculate the average, but took a rough approximation looking at the pageview stats from last May to now. There were several periods with no hits in a given month or two. In other months, it was only one or two hits. --Doug Mehus T · C  15:53, 22 November 2019 (UTC)
 * Retarget per Eureka Lott. Thryduulf (talk) 12:04, 22 November 2019 (UTC)
 * Delete, useless typo.--Roy17 (talk) 19:16, 23 November 2019 (UTC)
 * Delete – per Doug Mehus, I don't think pageviews demonstrate sufficient use to justify an R from misspelling. Also note that the singular form, Tropcial rainforest (which would arguably be more plausible than the plural with the same typo), doesn't exist. ComplexRational (talk) 15:29, 24 November 2019 (UTC)
 * Strong delete as an improbable typo. While I agree with Eureka Lott's basic premise that flipping two letters is a likely error, the probability of flipping two particular letters is much smaller. There are many variants of this particular error, such as "Rtopical rainforest", "Torpical rainforest", "Trpoical rainforest", "Troipcal rainforest", "Tropcial rainforest", "Tropiacl rainforest", "Tropicla rainforest", and so on—not to mention all of the variants where someone presses the wrong key, such as "Tropival rainforest", "Tropucal rainforest", etc. We should not create, and do not need, redirects for every possible misspelling, only the probable ones (such as "adress" to "address"). -- Black Falcon (talk) 05:24, 29 November 2019 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. <b style="color:red">Please do not modify it.</b> Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page.

Mizzle
<div class="boilerplate rfd vfd xfd-closed" style="background:#FFEEDD; margin-top:0.5em; padding:0 10px 0 10px; border:1px solid #888888;"> Closed discussion, see full discussion. Result was:
 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more redirects. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the redirect's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was soft redirect  to mizzle. (non-admin closure) ComplexRational (talk) 17:45, 28 November 2019 (UTC)

Not mentioned in target, I suppose it could be a portmanteau of mist and drizzle, but that's not in the article and is a mere supposition on my part.  Onel 5969  <i style="color:blue">TT me</i> 12:24, 21 November 2019 (UTC)
 * Mizzle → Drizzle (talk · links · [//en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Mizzle&action=history history] · stats)     [ Closure:  ]
 * Mizzles → Drizzle (talk · links · [//en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Mizzles&action=history history] · stats)     [ Closure:  ]
 * Mizzles → Drizzle (talk · links · [//en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Mizzles&action=history history] · stats)     [ Closure:  ]
 * Note I've added Mizzles to this discussion. Thryduulf (talk) 16:07, 21 November 2019 (UTC)
 * Soft redirect to Wiktionary. It is misty rain/drizzle but interesting mizzle gives the etymology as Middle English rather than a modern portmantaeu. We don't seem to have any content about it, other than at List of British slang which gives a definition in a completely different sense. Accordingly, I think the best thing we can do here is to soft redirect Mizzle to Wiktionary (it is the sort of thing people will look for) and retarget Mizzles to that soft redirect. Thryduulf (talk) 16:07, 21 November 2019 (UTC)
 * Soft redirect to wikt:mizzle (added Wiktionary wikilink for XfD Closer to copy+paste) at Wikitionary per above. (Sidebar:  Props to soft redirects, which I like; a lot of editors don't like them, but I actually think they help the reader know why something is pointing them somewhere by nudging them rather than shoving them there.) --Doug Mehus  T · C  15:56, 22 November 2019 (UTC)
 * Note to XfD Closer: I don't want to prejudge the outcome of this RfD, but have added the soft redirect markup below the RfD markup on each of the proposed redirects per  above. I assume, if this is the outcome, for soft redirects, we'd close as "custom" and then enter soft redirect and any other optional comments? Just so I understand the process for the future. Doug Mehus  T · C  16:08, 22 November 2019 (UTC)
 * I don't think there's anything wrong with that, and you'll save the closer some work if that's the way the discussion goes. --BDD (talk) 15:13, 27 November 2019 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. <b style="color:red">Please do not modify it.</b> Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page.

Dei
<div class="boilerplate rfd vfd xfd-closed" style="background:#FFEEDD; margin-top:0.5em; padding:0 10px 0 10px; border:1px solid #888888;"> Closed discussion, see full discussion. Result was:
 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more redirects. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the redirect's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was keep  . The rough consensus is that this is a valid WP:RFOREIGN and disambiguation is best served by the existing hatnote. Deryck C. 17:50, 2 December 2019 (UTC)


 * Dei → Deus (talk · links · [//en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Dei&action=history history] · stats)     [ Closure:  ]

"Dei" as a declination of Latin "Deus" is a case of WP:RFOREIGN. The current redirect obstructs the useful dab page DEI. I suggest redirecting there. — JFG talk 20:48, 8 November 2019 (UTC) <div class="xfd_relist" style="border-top: 1px solid #AAA; border-bottom: 1px solid #AAA; padding: 0px 25px;"> Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
 * I don't see an RFOREIGN problem when both the redirect and the target are Latin. That doesn't mean the disambiguation page isn't a better target, though. --BDD (talk) 21:03, 8 November 2019 (UTC)
 * Retarget to the DEI dab page. Deus dab page is also linked there as well. -- Lenticel ( talk ) 03:59, 9 November 2019 (UTC)
 * Keep as the primary topic for this capitalisation. There's a hatnote at Deus for disambiguation. Shhhnotsoloud (talk) 13:45, 9 November 2019 (UTC)
 * Keep as R from plural. deus first person nominative singular (which is what deus is about), dei first person nominative plural. Clarify the hatnote on Deus. Narky Blert (talk) 22:31, 12 November 2019 (UTC)
 * Keep per Shhhnotsoloud. --BDD (talk) 16:49, 20 November 2019 (UTC)

Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Deryck C. 12:09, 21 November 2019 (UTC)
 * Keep per Narky Blert and Shhhnotsoloud. Thryduulf (talk) 16:11, 21 November 2019 (UTC)
 * Keep and disambiguate with Dei Rural LLG, Papua New Guinea. — Sago tree spirit  (talk) 08:07, 24 November 2019 (UTC)
 * Good find. I've added that to the existing disambiguation page. --BDD (talk) 15:59, 2 December 2019 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. <b style="color:red">Please do not modify it.</b> Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page.

Hell, or High Water
Relisted, see Redirects for discussion/Log/2019 December 1%23Hell, or High Water

Shopping card
<div class="boilerplate rfd vfd xfd-closed" style="background:#FFEEDD; margin-top:0.5em; padding:0 10px 0 10px; border:1px solid #888888;"> Closed discussion, see full discussion. Result was:
 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more redirects. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the redirect's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was delete  . Consensus is that it's a seldom-used term that does not unambiguously refer to the target. ~  mazca  talk 01:41, 1 December 2019 (UTC)


 * Shopping card → Loyalty program (talk · links · [//en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Shopping_card&action=history history] · stats)     [ Closure:  ]

Not sure, WP:XY. I accidentally selected this from the drop-down search instead of Shopping cart, but the term does not appear in the article. My quick Gsearch indicates it is more commonly used to mean a gift card, although sometimes a credit card.

Perhaps Payment card would be a better target (especially section Types). The DAB at Card does not list many of these types (nor indeed Payment card itself). 185.62.130.234 (talk) 04:31, 21 November 2019 (UTC)
 * Delete (1st choice) as it's ambiguous, it can refer to both Payment card and Loyalty program;
 * Disambiguate to Card with an (2nd choice) per 185.62.130.234, though, post-close, XfD closer will need to add a reference to Payment card, Shopping card, and Loyalty program at Card; or, finally,
 * Weak keep (3rd choice) with one or more hatnotes at Payment card, Gift card, Card, and elsewhere. This could get unwieldly, so favour #1 or #2, respectively

--Doug Mehus T · C  23:20, 21 November 2019 (UTC)
 * Delete as confusing and not really used. The searches on the internet bring up questions for clarification rather than show any widespread use of the term. AngusWOOF  ( bark  •  sniff ) 02:03, 23 November 2019 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. <b style="color:red">Please do not modify it.</b> Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page.