Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2020 February 28

February 28
This is a list of redirects that have been proposed for deletion or other action on February 28, 2020.

Gambia (The)
 Closed discussion, see full discussion. Result was:
 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more redirects. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the redirect's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was delete  . signed,Rosguill talk 23:21, 6 March 2020 (UTC)


 * Gambia (The) → The Gambia (talk · links · [//en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Gambia_(The)&action=history history] · stats)     [ Closure:  ]

Like the earlier Holy See (The), this is useless. TheAwesome Hwyh  23:09, 28 February 2020 (UTC)


 * Keep; it's used and reduces the amount of clicks required. No reason to delete has been provided.  J 947 &thinsp;(c) , at  23:18, 28 February 2020 (UTC)
 * Similar reasoning as the "Holy See (The)" redirect, people looking for the country are more likely to search Gambia or The Gambia, both of which lead to the correct page. People who have already typed in Gambia just aren't likely to want to continue it with a oddly placed "(the)". TheAwesome  Hwyh  23:25, 28 February 2020 (UTC)
 * I don't really care about this particularly much—it doesn't mean much at all—but this redirect isn't not useful either, as per RHARMFUL. Also, please adhere to MOS:LISTGAP for accessibility reasons.  J 947 &thinsp;(c) , at  23:30, 28 February 2020 (UTC)
 * Delete This is not how we disambiguate. Both Gambia and The Gambia get readers to exactly what they were looking for. Also, is totally redundant to Gambia. What next? Bible (The), Koran (The), Tragedy of Macbeth (The), Ukraine (The), White House (The)? The potential list is endless.It increases the number of clicks required, or at least the decision-making, when Gambia (The) lands readers on Gambia. Narky Blert (talk) 23:35, 28 February 2020 (UTC)
 * I don't think those redirects should be made, just that there would be no reason to delete them. I don't get the last point I'm afraid.  J 947 &thinsp;(c) , at  23:38, 28 February 2020 (UTC)
 * Delete. This is not how we disambiguate, nor is it how we make titles. The fact that its equivalent redirect minus the "(The)" targets the same page, The Gambia, reduces its utility and is unnecessary search bar clutter. However, there is a similar redirect in existence, Gambia, The ... which should be kept since it is arranged in a manner similar to a sort name, and thus has utility. Steel1943  (talk) 23:40, 28 February 2020 (UTC)
 * Delete. Nonstandard disambiguators are rarely helpful, and the 7 pageviews in 2019 demonstrate that for this example. Hog Farm (talk) 00:00, 29 February 2020 (UTC)
 * Per nom (Delete) AngusWOOF  ( bark  •  sniff ) 02:20, 29 February 2020 (UTC)
 * Keep, possibly weak-ishly because of the pageviews and the parenthetical qualifier, per . If people are using it and it's not ambiguous, where's the harm here? Doug Mehus T · C  02:25, 29 February 2020 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page.

Wikipedia:Dead letter office (proposal)
 Closed discussion, see full discussion. Result was:
 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more redirects. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the redirect's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was restore and mark as a failed proposal  . signed,Rosguill talk 23:20, 6 March 2020 (UTC)


 * Dead letter office (proposal) → Wikipedia:Help desk (talk · links · [//en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Dead_letter_office_(proposal)&action=history history] · stats)     [ Closure:  ]

Found via a random search of Help Desk archives. The page was a proposal (last revision here) before being redirected in 2004(!) by in this edit. Rcats added in 2017 by ; notice that in this case, the redirect has history but that history is not needed for attribution of the Help Desk page.

I think the redirect should be undone and the previous revision kept and tagged with or similar. If it must be redirected, I would say WP:NPP or WP:AFC are closer matches than WP:HD, since the proposal dealt with new articles rather than a general help forum. Tigraan Click here to contact me 09:49, 20 February 2020 (UTC)  Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
 * Comment This does have some history to it, as a failed or successful proposal. Its utility as a redirect is low, but per WP:ATT, deletion is likely out of the cards. I'd support, and prefer, a history merge to what ultimately became of this proposal, possibly into the current target. Failing that, maybe a rename and possible retarget-ing? Doug Mehus T · C  15:22, 20 February 2020 (UTC)
 * Well, one of the problems is how to identify what ultimately became of this proposal. I fail to see how the Help Desk is a successor, even spiritually, of that proposal. "Someone choose to redirect it there at the time" seems particularly flimsy evidence; on the contrary, judging by and a couple of later edits, the Help Desk was a general help forum as soon as it started to exist in March 2004, whereas the proposal at time of redirection was more akin to current-day WP:NPP (a list of potentially problematic articles marked for various issues). OTOH NPP was created in March 2004 too but as patrol log of the new pages feed, so not an exact match either.  Tigraan Click here to contact me 15:57, 20 February 2020 (UTC)
 * Revert and mark with failed proposal, though I won't fuss too much about what specific tag we use as long as it clearly communicates that the proposal was unsuccessful. No meaningful connection with the help desk. --BDD (talk) 19:56, 28 February 2020 (UTC)

Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Hog Farm (talk) 22:57, 28 February 2020 (UTC) * Restore and tag per nom,, , and above. I don't have an opinion on the rename, but that's something that could possibly be pursued outside of RfD. I don't think redirecting this to the help desk was the correct way to handle this, to be honest. For clarity on the restoration, do you mean this revision? Doug Mehus T · C  02:30, 29 February 2020 (UTC)  (Striking duplicate !vote.  Eagles   24/7   (C)  21:41, 6 March 2020 (UTC))
 * Restore and tag with . That being said, Dead letter office is red and I doubt it would be used by anything else, so I'm wondering if the proposal should be moved there as "unnecessary disambiguation", so to speak. -- Tavix ( talk ) 23:12, 28 February 2020 (UTC)
 * Restore per above.  J 947 &thinsp;(c) , at  23:14, 28 February 2020 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page.

Trumpster diving
 Closed discussion, see full discussion. Result was:
 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more redirects. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the redirect's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was speedy keep  . Nomination withdrawn. (non-admin closure) Hog Farm (talk) 21:37, 6 March 2020 (UTC)


 * Trumpster diving → wiktionary:Trumpster diving (talk · links · [//en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Trumpster_diving&action=history history] · stats)     [ Closure:  ]

Redirect to Wiktionary, which normally is okay, but only redirects to a troll entry on Wiktionary created by the same (now-blocked) user who created this. I'm not sure how to nominate an entry on Wiktionary for deletion, but I would do so if I knew how. No point in having this crap clog up here or there. Hog Farm (talk) 22:53, 28 February 2020 (UTC)
 * See wikt:WT:RFV. It passes wikt:WT:ATTEST with these uses.  J 947 &thinsp;(c) , at  23:13, 28 February 2020 (UTC)
 * Comment: You can use wikt:Wiktionary:Requests for verification/English if it is to be deleted because it cannot be attested, wikt:Wiktionary:Requests for deletion/English for other reasons. For what it's worth, redirects to Wiktionary entries that do not exist are eligible for WP:G8. -- Tavix ( talk ) 23:21, 28 February 2020 (UTC)
 * Keep I don't see any encyclopedic value in this soft redirect to Wiktionary, so it's clearly within purpose. I think that's the better way to handle this, to nominate it for deletion at Wiktionary if it fails their attestation guidelines. As Tavix notes, this could then be speedily deleted per G8. Doug Mehus T · C  00:18, 29 February 2020 (UTC)
 * Comment: The way to go here seems to get it deleted on wikit and then G8 it here.  13:47, 6 March 2020 (UTC)  — Preceding unsigned comment added by BEANS X3 (talk • contribs)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page.

Short penis
 Closed discussion, see full discussion. Result was:
 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more redirects. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the redirect's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was no consensus  . Discussion does not appear to be converging to a consensus. signed,Rosguill talk 23:19, 6 March 2020 (UTC)


 * Short penis → Micropenis (talk · links · [//en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Short_penis&action=history history] · stats)     [ Closure:  ]

Last one (of the redirects targeted to micropenis needing discussion and attention anyway!). Similar to the redirects little dick, tiny penis, tiny cock, small cock, and small dick, the latter four of the quintuplets are also on today's log page, this redirect is not mentioned in the current target. Since there are no defined parameters on what constitutes a short penis, this redirect is ambiguous and confusing per WP:R. In terms of assessing its utility per WP:R, or lack thereof per WP:R, it had 47 pageviews in the preceding twelve month period inclusive to yesterday. That's probably exactly borderline, so per WP:R and WP:K, I am neutral toward retarget-ing to the dab page small penis as R from more specific name and R from related topic or to delete-ing this redirect, and bringing it forth for discussion. -- Doug Mehus T · C  03:23, 10 February 2020 (UTC) *Retarget to Human penis size. There are a number of things wrong with that disambiguation page, but that's another story. Shhhnotsoloud (talk) 17:58, 10 February 2020 (UTC)  Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
 * Retarget to Human penis size rather than Small penis, which is a pretty poor dab page. SpicyMilkBoy (talk) 07:06, 10 February 2020 (UTC)
 * , I don't think I could support human penis size as the target there. Bear in mind, it's a relatively new dab page and we have no deadlines. Can I take that as a weak retarget to the dab page as a second choice? Doug Mehus T · C  07:43, 10 February 2020 (UTC)
 * Comment RfD is WP:NOTCLEANUP. The dab page can be fixed. Nevertheless, we cannot say that the human male has exclusive ownership to all penis size-related redirects. Lots of non-human males have penises. Doug Mehus T · C  20:31, 10 February 2020 (UTC)
 * Yes, you're right about "exclusive ownership". Delete: Search is better and will quickly bring up articles the searcher right want. Shhhnotsoloud (talk) 16:53, 11 February 2020 (UTC)
 * But the deletion argument fails WP:R as WP:R is a clear pass, substantiated by both pageviews and WP:RCHEAP. Doug Mehus T · C  17:22, 11 February 2020 (UTC)
 * Delete - Simply going to 'penis' wouldn't be helpful. Beyond that? Well, what is or isn't 'short' is relative and has no coherent definition as mentioned above. I realize that this is kind of silly to get into, but the fact is also that 'short' isn't the same thing as 'small'. Life exists in three dimensional space (and beyond). Looking at a whole person, of course, it's easy to observe two people and think of one them as being bigger in general even if he or she is genuinely less tall. And, as additionally stated above, there's the fact that... well, it's an awkward topic to talk about, but the penis is something that doesn't just apply to other regular mammals as well as humans. It applies to angels, centaurs, cyborgs, demons, elves, ghosts, goblins, golems, harpies, nagas, necromorphs, orcs, robots, tentacle-coated abominations rising from the depths of the cursed oceans, and many other plausible to implausible creatures thought to maybe prey upon humans in a particular way should you somehow run into one. What they consider to be too 'short'? All bets are off. CoffeeWithMarkets (talk) 02:13, 12 February 2020 (UTC)
 * I can live with deletion of this one; 47 pageviews per year is, as I say, marginally worth keeping. Doug Mehus T · C  21:51, 12 February 2020 (UTC)

Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, — Wug·a·po·des​ 22:50, 18 February 2020 (UTC) oppose retarget-ing to human penis size. both make compelling arguments for the "delete" side, so, since there doesn't seem to be support to my idea retargeting toward the disambiguation page, one can safely conclude that there's probably a rough consensus here now to deletion. Doug Mehus T · C  17:42, 27 February 2020 (UTC) <div class="xfd_relist" style="border-top: 1px solid #AAA; border-bottom: 1px solid #AAA; padding: 0px 25px;"> Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus. Relisting comment: discussion still ongoing
 * Keep as-is; we have disambiguation hatnotes for a reason, e.g. . As second choice, do it the other way around.  By no means should this be deleted, since it's a common phrase and we have somewhere to send it, and redlinking it will obviously inspire (probably multiple) attempts to create non-encyclopedic material at this title.  — SMcCandlish ☏ ¢ 😼  12:58, 19 February 2020 (UTC)
 * Just noticed your reply, can you clarify what you mean by "do it the other way around"? I tend to agree it shouldn't be deleted, but the reason why I'm opposed to retargeting to human penis size is because humans aren't the only mammals with penises, long or short. I also think that, because there's no defined sizes on what constitutes a "short penis," micropenis, a human condition, isn't appropriate. I would weakly support retargeting to penis, which touches, broadly, on the sizing of penises; however, my preference would be to retarget to either of (a) small penis or (b) penis (disambiguation). Note: I have proposed merging the small penis disambiguation page into penis (disambiguation) since this RfD was originally listed. Doug Mehus T · C  00:47, 22 February 2020 (UTC)
 * By the other way around, I mean have it go to Human penis size, with a hatnote pointing to the other article, maybe .  — SMcCandlish ☏ ¢ 😼  05:00, 23 February 2020 (UTC)
 * Meh, I don't like that then. Humans aren't the only mammals with penises; thus, there's ambiguity per WP:R and per WP:XY. Would you support retargeting to penis, possibly with a hatnote, or to the small penis disambiguation page? Doug Mehus T · C  17:58, 23 February 2020 (UTC)
 * I don't much care which direction the redir vs. hatnote goes. As for that "little matter", I don't think it's regular English usage (i.e., nothing encyclopedic or even Wiktionarian) for "micropenis" or "small penis" or anything like this to be applied outside a human context, so I'm skeptical that it matters. I think most male mammals have much of their penis as retractile, so the question doesn't really arise.  I guess it could in an animal husbandry context (e.g. if a bull or stallion was literally incapable of mating successfully), but I'm unaware of sources using "micropenis" in such a context (even when I search google for keywords like  ).  — SMcCandlish ☏ ¢ 😼  02:16, 28 February 2020 (UTC)
 * Delete per CoffeeWithMarkets. The phrase may be common, but what does that mean? Can we really speak to what a short penis is? For a phrase to be on Wiktionary, it needs to be idiomatic, meaning the phrase has some meaning beyond the meaning of its individual parts. So they have short end of the stick, for example, but will likely never have "short penis". While this isn't a formal criteria here, it can be helpful when assessing this sort of redirect. And since a short penis is just a "penis" that is "short", by whatever definition, I don't think this is a helpful search term. --BDD (talk) 16:38, 27 February 2020 (UTC)
 * Comment I'm still neutral on retarget-ing to a dab page (whether small penis or penis (disambiguation)) or to delete-ing, but per my comments above, if it helps to clarify, I

Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, -- Tavix ( talk ) 22:31, 28 February 2020 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. <b style="color:red">Please do not modify it.</b> Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page.

Vagina entry
<div class="boilerplate rfd vfd xfd-closed" style="background:#FFEEDD; margin-top:0.5em; padding:0 10px 0 10px; border:1px solid #888888;"> Closed discussion, see full discussion. Result was:
 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more redirects. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the redirect's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was delete  . There's a strong consensus that the redirect is ambiguous and generally not useful in its current form, and while it could reasonably be redirected to one of several other places, nobody has gained significant agreement that it would actually help anyone if retargeted to any specific place. ~  mazca  talk 13:52, 9 March 2020 (UTC)


 * Vagina entry → Sexual intercourse (talk · links · [//en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Vagina_entry&action=history history] · stats)     [ Closure:  ]

Weird slang for sexual intercourse, not really used, could also (and more plausibly imo) refer to the vaginal introitus. Suggest deleting or retargeting. SpicyMilkBoy (talk) 22:03, 13 February 2020 (UTC)
 * Delete. Not needed and should have never pointed to that article. It's also a grammatical issue. "Vaginal entry" would be grammatically correct. And if using that latter spelling, going with that as a name, it should redirect to the Vagina article. Flyer22 Frozen (talk) 22:09, 13 February 2020 (UTC)
 * Delete per above. Vague and useless, and indeed unused. Crossroads -talk- 05:10, 14 February 2020 (UTC)
 * Retarget to Vagina where vaginal opening is mentioned, per and, as it had 431 pageviews in the past 30 days. In the past year, it was in the thousands. Little prospect of article creation per WP:R, so this is a clear WP:R pass. Suggest rcat R from related topic, and others as needed. I am fine with retargeting to the specific section as well, as SpicyMilkBoy proposed. Doug Mehus  T · C  22:26, 14 February 2020 (UTC)
 * Dmehus (Doug Mehus), I would have stated "or redirect." But "vagina entry" is not a word. It's like a grammatically incorrect version of "vaginal entry." I don't see a need to redirect it. We could simply create "vaginal entry" and redirect it instead. No need to ping me if you reply. Flyer22 Frozen (talk) 22:47, 14 February 2020 (UTC)
 * But since this is not a vote, I said, "per you," because your rationale states you oppose keeping at the current target and are supportive of, chiefly, deletion or, alternatively, retargeting. Grammatical correctness doesn't apply to redirects; we have lots of redirects for plausible misspellings. Move-ing this redirect to Vaginal entry is definitely possible, but I think we should just create a new redirect, and target to the same place. Doug Mehus T · C  23:17, 14 February 2020 (UTC)
 * Dmehus (Doug Mehus), again, no need to ping me. I'll check back here for replies. I've pinged you, but that's because I'm not sure if it's best to ping you when I reply here. As for the matter at hand, some editors will state "not a vote" with regard to consensus-building; this is per WP:Consensus. I've also noted that consensus on Wikipedia is not about votes (unless it's something like RfA). But it does seem that in venues such as this one, it pretty much comes down to a vote. Either way, I am aware of WP:Redirects are cheap. And it's because of that cheapness, that they can often be validly deleted. Wikipedia has taken grammatical correctness, including misspellings matters, into consideration times before when it comes to whether or not to retain a redirect. This includes whether or not the misspelling is common enough that we should retain it as a redirect. In this case, you feel that retaining "vagina entry" is beneficial. I don't when "vaginal entry" is considered. Any reader typing in "vagina entry" is looking for "vaginal entry." It's just that "vagina entry" popped up when they typed "vaginal entry." Or they left out the l when typing. There is no need for "vagina entry." We'll just have to agree to disagree. Flyer22 Frozen (talk) 23:31, 14 February 2020 (UTC) Updated post. Flyer22 Frozen (talk) 23:41, 14 February 2020 (UTC)


 * Retarget per User:Dmehus. It's grammatical state would suggest it is referring to the noun use of entry. Hog Farm (talk) 02:22, 16 February 2020 (UTC)
 * Involved Comment From my perspective, there's at least a rough consensus against deletion in that the nominator and Flyer 22 Frozen are either ambivalent toward retargeting to vagina, retargeting somewhere, or to deleting. The subsequent comments by yours truly and validated by Hog Farm have refuted the grammatical incorrectness of vagina entry being implausible, which adds support to Flyer22 Frozen's alternate option of retargeting to vagina. Doug Mehus T · C  15:35, 20 February 2020 (UTC)
 * No, I'm firmly for deletion. I read Ivanvector's comment below, and I'm still for deletion. Per what I stated above, I see no need at all to keep this redirect. It is not at all beneficial. "Vaginal entry" should be created instead and this should be deleted. Flyer22 Frozen (talk) 01:18, 22 February 2020 (UTC)


 * Whether or not we call this a grammatical error, and whether or not the creator intended for it to be this way, I already addressed the fact that a misspelling being common enough to retain it as a redirect is commonly employed. This, however, isn't some case where retaining this odd variation helps the reader if "vaginal entry" is created instead. I wrote most of the Vagina article and had never seen this redirect. If I had, I don't remember it, and I have a very good memory. I should have created "Vaginal entry." Anyway, I won't be broken up about "vagina entry" being retained; it's not something that matters much. Flyer22 Frozen (talk) 01:29, 22 February 2020 (UTC)

<div class="xfd_relist" style="border-top: 1px solid #AAA; border-bottom: 1px solid #AAA; padding: 0px 25px;"> Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.

Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Steel1943  (talk) 04:10, 21 February 2020 (UTC) <div class="xfd_relist" style="border-top: 1px solid #AAA; border-bottom: 1px solid #AAA; padding: 0px 25px;"> Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
 * Retarget as proposed above. Redirects don't need to be grammatically correct, in fact one of their functions is to capture searches from plausible incorrect forms. A reader attempting a keyword search for "vagina" and "entry" would be well-informed by landing at vagina. Ivanvector (Talk/Edits) 15:00, 21 February 2020 (UTC)
 * Delete per Flyer 22 Frozen. I'm not giving too much weight to the page views there—anything that shows up in the search box when you enter "Penis" or "Vagina" is going to get a lot of use just from juvenile antics. Retargeting to Vagina seems uniquely unhelpful, since a reader searching this will almost certainly know what a vagina is and that they can search for it directly. To the extent this implies something more specific, it's misleading. --BDD (talk) 20:22, 28 February 2020 (UTC)

Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Steel1943  (talk) 22:31, 28 February 2020 (UTC)
 * If this were an actual street name (in England, "entry" can be a street name), it would be nailed on for addition to Place names considered unusual. Narky Blert (talk) 23:42, 28 February 2020 (UTC)
 * Delete per Flyer22. signed,Rosguill talk 23:16, 6 March 2020 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. <b style="color:red">Please do not modify it.</b> Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page.

TMNT Nickelodeon
Relisted, see Redirects for discussion/Log/2020 March 7%23TMNT Nickelodeon

Wedian
<div class="boilerplate rfd vfd xfd-closed" style="background:#FFEEDD; margin-top:0.5em; padding:0 10px 0 10px; border:1px solid #888888;"> Closed discussion, see full discussion. Result was:
 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more redirects. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the redirect's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was keep  . signed,Rosguill talk 23:13, 6 March 2020 (UTC)


 * Wedian → New administrative capital of Egypt (talk · links · [//en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wedian&action=history history] · stats)     [ Closure:  ]

Delete or explain. What is "Wedian"? No mention of it in the article and cannot find it in any of the references there. From the reference on the redirect, it seems to be a project codename. If we're going to keep this redirect, we need something in the target article explaining it. — Smjg (talk) 12:50, 19 February 2020 (UTC)

<div class="xfd_relist" style="border-top: 1px solid #AAA; border-bottom: 1px solid #AAA; padding: 0px 25px;"> Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
 * Comment This is not something I feel strongly about either way. Anyway, I made the redirect because that was what I was looking up and the search came up empty. The name was quoted in serveral non-wikipedia articles. The Guardian, MIT, Urban Development Consortium. I'm Scandinavian, and the name was also at that time (when the redirect was made) quoted quite extensively in Scandinavian Media (probably from the same source) Bygg.noBT etc etc. Anyway, i'd be fine with deleting the redirect, if it's a problem. Sertmann (talk) 15:23, 19 February 2020 (UTC)
 * Comment Maybe retarget to Median as R from misnomer, R from Elmer Fudd, and/or R from Barry Kripke? ;-) Doug Mehus T · C  00:29, 25 February 2020 (UTC)
 * Weak keep I've added a couple of the sources cited above, though I think this is a pretty fine WP:CRYSTAL line. I think we're safe because we're just reporting on what others have said rather than speculating ourselves, but I wouldn't be surprised if the addition is reverted and we end up back here. --BDD (talk) 17:01, 27 February 2020 (UTC)
 * I think BDD's additions seem fine/convincing, at least for the time being. This could be relisted to see if they persist for a week, but for now I think it's fine to keep this redirect. ~  Amory <small style="color:#555"> (u • t • c) 18:07, 27 February 2020 (UTC)

Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Steel1943  (talk) 22:29, 28 February 2020 (UTC)
 * What is "Wedian"? A Wikipedian who's lost their ikip? Narky Blert (talk) 23:18, 28 February 2020 (UTC)
 * Keep per the WP:HEY from, whose additions found concurrence from . Doug Mehus T · C  01:18, 29 February 2020 (UTC)
 * Keep: Plausible search term that is now explained at the target. (I believe the mention is appropriate, but that is not directly an RFD matter .) Glades12 (talk) 19:59, 1 March 2020 (UTC), updated 20:09, 1 March 2020 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. <b style="color:red">Please do not modify it.</b> Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page.

Two Watchers
<div class="boilerplate rfd vfd xfd-closed" style="background:#FFEEDD; margin-top:0.5em; padding:0 10px 0 10px; border:1px solid #888888;"> Closed discussion, see full discussion. Result was:
 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more redirects. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the redirect's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was delete and attribute with an edit summary  . There's consensus in the first instance that this redirect isn't helpful at this time for readers, as a succession of trims and merges have removed any mention of this fictional location from the current target. Valid concerns, however, were raised about technical attribution issues in future if some of these merges happen to be undone, and some of the content was to resurface in the published version. Out of an abundance of caution, therefore, I've made an edit to the original merged target (also now a redirect) crediting the initial author, who was the only user in the history that actually added significant content to the article that may need attribution. ~  mazca  talk 14:22, 9 March 2020 (UTC)


 * Two Watchers → Middle-earth (talk · links · [//en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Two_Watchers&action=history history] · stats)     [ Closure:  ]

"Two Watchers" are not mentioned in the English Wikipedia. The article was merged, but the page it was merged into has been redirected, so the content is not around in the articlespace. Hog Farm (talk) 20:30, 10 February 2020 (UTC)

<div class="xfd_relist" style="border-top: 1px solid #AAA; border-bottom: 1px solid #AAA; padding: 0px 25px;"> Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
 * Speedy keep, because this redirect is the result of two pages being merged. Deleting this will cause license/copyright violations.   WhatamIdoing (talk) 02:45, 11 February 2020 (UTC)
 * Delete per nom. With no merged content extant, we also no longer need to worry about attribution. In fact, "Two Watchers" isn't mentioned in any Middle-Earth related articles. -- Tavix ( talk ) 02:50, 11 February 2020 (UTC)
 * Here are the diffs: "merged into Minor places in Middle-earth" and "merged content from Two Watchers".  De728631 is still active, if you want to ask him about the merge.  WhatamIdoing (talk) 04:15, 11 February 2020 (UTC)
 * And here's what happened to said content after the merge - . None of this made it to the Middle-earth article. Hog Farm (talk) 04:21, 11 February 2020 (UTC)
 * That doesn't matter. If the content is anywhere in any revision of any article, then the attribution history must be preserved on wiki.  See Copying within Wikipedia (the sentence about the "disadvantage" to that attribution method).  There are no "unless someone later blanks the merged content" or "what if the page gets redirected to a different page?" exceptions to this legal rule.  WhatamIdoing (talk) 17:55, 11 February 2020 (UTC)
 * There is no need for attribution when there is nothing to attribute. Simply put, there is zero content on the Middle Earth Two Watchers anywhere on Wikipedia. If we were that strict about attributing removed content, we would never be able to delete anything, which is obviously not the case. -- Tavix ( talk ) 14:48, 25 February 2020 (UTC)
 * Keep to retain page history per whatamidoing. — Wug·a·po·des​ 22:41, 18 February 2020 (UTC)

Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Steel1943  (talk) 05:29, 19 February 2020 (UTC) <div class="xfd_relist" style="border-top: 1px solid #AAA; border-bottom: 1px solid #AAA; padding: 0px 25px;"> Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
 * Delete. Unless someone's going to write about these statues into the Mordor article, there isn't much to say about it or to keep. The fandom pages can document and preserve such details. AngusWOOF  ( bark  •  sniff ) 23:30, 19 February 2020 (UTC)
 * Speedy Keep As long as the content remains on Wikipedia, even only in the Middle-earth article history, attribution requirements of the licenses require that the attributions for that content remain. The only place where the attributions exist is in the Two Watchers redirect history, so the redirect must be kept to maintain that attribution. TJRC (talk) 00:53, 20 February 2020 (UTC)
 * History merge the revisions into merger target(s) and then delete this unnecessary redirect. Doug Mehus T · C  13:33, 25 February 2020 (UTC)
 * WP:HISTMERGEs can really only be useful for fixing cut-and-paste moves, which is why the shortcut takes you to Administrators' guide/Fixing cut-and-paste moves. If you tried history merging this content, you would get a parallel history problem. -- Tavix ( talk ) 14:48, 25 February 2020 (UTC)
 * Thanks, . By "parallel history problem," I assume you mean that the target of the history merge would have revisions that don't necessarily run parallel to each other in terms of their content? I can see this as a relatively minor problem, if looking back through the history for something, but if the goal is just to adhere to the licensing requirements, I think it's relatively minor given the lower likelihood of needing to look through revisions from, say, 10 years ago (other than, say, copyright investigations). Our methods by which we preserve attribution are...complicated. History merges, like you say, can result in problems of histories running parallel to each other whereas talk page history merges can be easily broken or corrupted and merges using redirects can fall through the cracks and be accidentally deleted. Doug Mehus T · C  14:55, 25 February 2020 (UTC)
 * The page I linked to contains a lot of information about parallel histories. Instead of assuming, please read that link. We're getting off topic now, so I'll leave it at that. -- Tavix ( talk ) 14:59, 25 February 2020 (UTC)
 * Delete per Tavix. --BDD (talk) 22:08, 26 February 2020 (UTC)
 * Don't have an opinion, but just want to say that, assuming the above is true, I believe Tavix has the attribution requirements right. At the very least, what he describes has been standard practice at RfD, AfD, and elsewhere for a long time. ~  Amory <small style="color:#555"> (u • t • c) 18:03, 27 February 2020 (UTC)
 * Delete per Tavix and BDD. I get the arguments now that and  are making re: link rot, but at the same time, I don't think this keep criterion should be the chief deciding factor against deletion. Doug Mehus  T · C  18:06, 27 February 2020 (UTC)
 * My argument has nothing to do with link rot. My argument is about the potential for license violations.  License violation == copyright violation.
 * Editor #1 merges Article to Target. (Note:  the page history for Article must be kept, per policy.)
 * Editor #2 removes the content from Target.
 * Admin #1 deletes Article because "With no merged content in the current version, I never need to worry about attribution for that blanked content again".
 * Editor #3, not knowing anything at all about the merge or the deletion, reverts Editor #2 – and now we need that attribution back, because what we have is a copyright violation.
 * And if it's not Editor #3, it's a re-user who was pointing to it for their attribution, or a researcher trying to figure out how Wikipedia's content changed, or an editor trying to figure out why this guy claims to have created a hundred articles when only five can be seen in the user's contributions, or what the big deal about this edit war was, etc. There are a lot of uses for Wikipedia's history that aren't about the current version of an article.
 * So on the one hand, we have a redirect that goes to a page whose current version doesn't mention it. The reader might be disappointed but would probably figure out that it's something about Tolkien.  On the other hand, we have the possibility of ending up with a copyright violation.  The question here is whether it's important enough to you to remove that redirect that you're willing to risk copyvios.  My own POV is that the policy says "do not delete", with no exceptions, and not "don't delete, unless you've verified that the content isn't visible in the current version of any article, in which case, it's absolutely safe to assume that nobody will ever restore any of it."  What's your POV? WhatamIdoing (talk) 18:54, 27 February 2020 (UTC)

Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Steel1943  (talk) 22:29, 28 February 2020 (UTC)
 * I think that it's absolutely vital to be on the safe side here. Move without leaving a redirect to User:J947/att1 to solve problems around unplausibility.  J 947 &thinsp;(c) , at  23:27, 28 February 2020 (UTC)
 * I don't like that idea. What good is attribution if it's in an obscure location, and why should a single user be the "keeper" of this attribution? If we want to be overly cautious, just keep it as-is or pick one of the options at Merge and delete Personally, I like the "record authorship and delete history" option, used to good effect at Redirects for discussion/Log/2015 May 29, for example. -- Tavix ( talk ) 23:38, 28 February 2020 (UTC)
 * I concur with Tavix here. There's not that many editors usernames here, when you strip out the bot edits and this RfD discussion listing, that recording the editors names in an edit summary on one or more target articles then deleting this redirect should solve any attributon concerns. Doug Mehus T · C  23:55, 28 February 2020 (UTC)
 * Thinking about it, that is a better option: record authorship and delete history.  J 947 &thinsp;(c) , at  01:27, 29 February 2020 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. <b style="color:red">Please do not modify it.</b> Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page.

Generation V
Relisted, see Redirects for discussion/Log/2020 March 8%23Generation V

The Al Jilwah (The Black Book of Satan)
<div class="boilerplate rfd vfd xfd-closed" style="background:#FFEEDD; margin-top:0.5em; padding:0 10px 0 10px; border:1px solid #888888;"> Closed discussion, see full discussion. Result was:
 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more redirects. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the redirect's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was delete  . signed,Rosguill talk 23:11, 6 March 2020 (UTC)


 * <span id="The Al Jilwah (The Black Book of Satan)">The Al Jilwah (The Black Book of Satan) → Book of Revelation (talk · links · [//en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=The_Al_Jilwah_(The_Black_Book_of_Satan)&action=history history] · stats)     [ Closure:  ]

Appears to be about a different subject than the Christian Book of Revelation, probably the Yazidi Book of Revelation based on the Arabic name. Not sure enough to boldly retarget there on my own, I'd like some insight from other users on what this is referring to. Hog Farm (talk) 02:53, 17 February 2020 (UTC) <div class="xfd_relist" style="border-top: 1px solid #AAA; border-bottom: 1px solid #AAA; padding: 0px 25px;"> Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
 * Support retarget to Yazidi Book of Revelation per nom. A Google search was full of hits confirming the identity. Narky Blert (talk) 05:09, 17 February 2020 (UTC)
 * But see Yazidi Black Book. I would strongly urge us to be careful with promulgating the label "Black Book of Satan" for any religious text unless it's a very common name. --BDD (talk) 20:25, 17 February 2020 (UTC)
 * Retarget Al Jilwah (which also points to the wrong target) to Yazidi Book of Revelation where Kitab al Jilwah is mentioned as an alternative name (where كتاب kitāb means book). Of course, Book of Revelation alone is understood in English-speaking contexts as meaning the Christian Book of Revelation (aka Αποκαλυψις Apokalypsis), which is something different altogether. Not sure about the usefulness of the parenthese. Is that book really widely known under that name which some might call "blasphemous"? I don't know, and I personally don't care this way or that about blaspheming per se, but some other people do, and if that alias isn't widely known, why mention it? — Tonymec (talk) 02:20, 18 February 2020 (UTC)
 * Delete It's not about blasphemy for me, an atheist. It's just a recognition that labeling any non-Satanist religion "of Satan" is inflammatory and disrespectful. The only "Black Book of Satan" mentioned on Wikipedia comes from an actual Satanist group (Order of Nine Angles). Note that "Al Jiwah" has already been retargeted in the above discussion (link in case of relisting). --BDD (talk) 16:26, 26 February 2020 (UTC)
 * Delete per the parenthetical. "The Black Book" part of it would seem to refer to Yazidi Black Book, no? Also, like BDD I am wary of using "of Satan" for something that is not satanist. -- Tavix ( talk ) 22:19, 28 February 2020 (UTC)

Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Steel1943  (talk) 22:27, 28 February 2020 (UTC)
 * Delete. I agree with the previous delete comments, and note that Al Jilwah exists. Shhhnotsoloud (talk) 21:30, 2 March 2020 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. <b style="color:red">Please do not modify it.</b> Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page.

Energy-isolation device
<div class="boilerplate rfd vfd xfd-closed" style="background:#FFEEDD; margin-top:0.5em; padding:0 10px 0 10px; border:1px solid #888888;"> Closed discussion, see full discussion. Result was:
 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more redirects. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the redirect's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was delete  . While certainly relevant to the current target, consensus here seems to be that it's very much ambiguous. ~  mazca  talk 14:04, 9 March 2020 (UTC)


 * Energy-isolation device → Lockout–tagout (talk · links · [//en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Energy-isolation_device&action=history history] · stats)     [ Closure:  ]
 * Energy-isolating device → Lockout–tagout (talk · links · [//en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Energy-isolating_device&action=history history] · stats)     [ Closure:  ]

Not mentioned at the target, delete unless a justification can be provided. signed,Rosguill talk 18:51, 18 February 2020 (UTC)

Check this link: Lockout/Tagout. If you scroll-down you'll see the section about the energy-isolation device. It's an important part of Lockout/Tagout. It would probably be better to have it's own page, but since it doesn't I made it a redirect page. But please -- don't delete it.

--Noah Tall (talk) 20:51, 18 February 2020 (UTC) Going by my own research, this is the only page to me that we have on Wikipedia to redirect this to. So I don't think we need a disambiguation. I'm not an expert in this field though so you understand, but I haven't been able to find any page that has anything to do with energy-isolating devices aside from this one, and that's why I made the redirect. As I said earlier though, I think it would benefit from a page of its' own more so than as a redirect page. --Noah Tall (talk) 23:06, 18 February 2020 (UTC) <div class="xfd_relist" style="border-top: 1px solid #AAA; border-bottom: 1px solid #AAA; padding: 0px 25px;"> Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
 * Comment Good find, . The key here, though, is that it's not mentioned in the target article. That said, that's a reasonable primary source for which we could easily add a mention. The question becomes, is this the only possible "energy-isolation device"? If so, then it's probably harmless to keep targeted here. If not, then we need to think about what the other possible uses are and whether retargeting, disambiguating, or deleting is best. I haven't looked into it yet, so have no comment either way, but hopefully this helps. Doug Mehus T · C  21:05, 18 February 2020 (UTC)
 * Delete As such, this only looks helpful to readers already familiar with the topic, and is likely to confuse others. --BDD (talk) 17:11, 26 February 2020 (UTC)
 * Keep I dunno, it seems like it'd be pretty trivial to mention at the topic? I'm not a LOTO expert, but at least by my read, isn't half the lead/lede dancing around the idea of using a device?  Is there any reason we shouldn't just say something to that effect?  More to the point, the Procedure section explicitly discusses devices, saying, among other things, Safety equipment manufacturers provide a range of isolation devices specifically designed... and for example, an isolation device does not have to resist a chainsaw....  It seems like the target does refer to energy-isolation devices, but by saying that they are devices that isolate energy. ~  Amory <small style="color:#555"> (u • t • c) 18:17, 27 February 2020 (UTC)

Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, -- Tavix ( talk ) 22:20, 28 February 2020 (UTC)
 * Delete. The latter is not a synonym for the former. The title of the redirects makes it seem the target article's subject actually performs the task of isolating energy, which the target's subject does not. The target subject is literally just a procedure for placing a tag informing workers not to perform electrical work on the device which is tagged prior to removing the tag. These redirects' titles are WP:REDLINK at best, misleading (in their current states) at worst. Steel1943  (talk) 22:37, 28 February 2020 (UTC)
 * Delete as ambiguous. See Circuit breaker and Trapped key interlocking for examples. Narky Blert (talk) 23:11, 28 February 2020 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. <b style="color:red">Please do not modify it.</b> Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page.

Eboennin
<div class="boilerplate rfd vfd xfd-closed" style="background:#FFEEDD; margin-top:0.5em; padding:0 10px 0 10px; border:1px solid #888888;"> Closed discussion, see full discussion. Result was:
 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more redirects. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the redirect's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was delete  . signed,Rosguill talk 23:10, 6 March 2020 (UTC)


 * Eboennin → Man (Middle-earth) (talk · links · [//en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Eboennin&action=history history] · stats)     [ Closure:  ]


 * <span id="Apanónar">Apanónar → Man (Middle-earth) (talk · links · [//en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Apan%C3%B3nar&action=history history] · stats)     [ Closure:  ]


 * Engwar → Man (Middle-earth) (talk · links · [//en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Engwar&action=history history] · stats)     [ Closure:  ]


 * <span id="Fírimar">Fírimar → Man (Middle-earth) (talk · links · [//en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=F%C3%ADrimar&action=history history] · stats)     [ Closure:  ]


 * Aphadrim → Man (Middle-earth) (talk · links · [//en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Aphadrim&action=history history] · stats)     [ Closure:  ]

Names for humans in Tolkien's writings not important enough to be mentioned in the target article. None of these have been merged anywhere (I checked), so there is no attribution issues with deletion (No page history either, all created as redirects). Hog Farm (talk) 22:19, 28 February 2020 (UTC)
 * Delete all per nom. Not mentioned in the target = useless. Redirects are supposed to point to an answer not a puzzle. Narky Blert (talk) 23:04, 28 February 2020 (UTC)


 * Delete all per nom's explanation. Chiswick Chap (talk) 09:26, 29 February 2020 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. <b style="color:red">Please do not modify it.</b> Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page.

Laying mud
<div class="boilerplate rfd vfd xfd-closed" style="background:#FFEEDD; margin-top:0.5em; padding:0 10px 0 10px; border:1px solid #888888;"> Closed discussion, see full discussion. Result was:
 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more redirects. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the redirect's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was delete  . signed,Rosguill talk 23:10, 6 March 2020 (UTC)


 * Laying mud → Defecation (talk · links · [//en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Laying_mud&action=history history] · stats)     [ Closure:  ]

A novel or obscure alternate name for the target, which is one of the reasons why redirects can be deleted. 19 pageviews in 2019. Hog Farm (talk) 22:17, 28 February 2020 (UTC)
 * Delete per WP:NEOLOGISM. We aren't Urban Dictionary. Narky Blert (talk) 22:38, 28 February 2020 (UTC)
 * Delete per above; this is obviously an obscure neologism. I thought I was familiar with all the potty humour nicknames and slang terms for defecation and I've never heard of this. Even if it were, I would argue the primary topic here would be brickwork or concrete slab. That's honestly what I thought of when I thought of laying mud. Doug Mehus T · C  20:15, 1 March 2020 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. <b style="color:red">Please do not modify it.</b> Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page.

Whatisthematrix
<div class="boilerplate rfd vfd xfd-closed" style="background:#FFEEDD; margin-top:0.5em; padding:0 10px 0 10px; border:1px solid #888888;"> Closed discussion, see full discussion. Result was:
 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more redirects. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the redirect's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was Keep.  (non-admin closure) &#8211;  MJL &thinsp;‐Talk‐☖ 16:13, 7 March 2020 (UTC)


 * Whatisthematrix → The Matrix (talk · links · [//en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Whatisthematrix&action=history history] · stats)     [ Closure:  ]

Lack of spaces between any of these words renders this useless and 15 pageviews in 2019, so users don't find it useful, either. Hog Farm (talk) 22:15, 28 February 2020 (UTC)
 * Deletepernomasanunlikelyspelling. Narky Blert (talk) 22:39, 28 February 2020 (UTC)
 * Comment - "whatisthematrix.com" was a web site used to promote the first film, an unusual marketing gimmick at the time. -Jason A. Quest (talk) 23:19, 28 February 2020 (UTC)
 * Keep WhatIsTheMatrix was the marketing tagline at the time of the film release. — Dispenser 02:51, 1 March 2020 (UTC)
 * Keep, possibly weak-ishly due to the low pageviews identified by, per and . The fact that it doesn't include the .com in the redirect string to be an R from domain name doesn't matter, nor really do the lack of spaces. As well, the age of the film likely contributes to the low pageviews, so the age of this redirect shouldn't be ignored per WP:R. Doug Mehus  T · C  20:19, 1 March 2020 (UTC)
 * Keep given the justification found above and the lack of any other target that this could be confused with. signed,Rosguill talk 23:09, 6 March 2020 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. <b style="color:red">Please do not modify it.</b> Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page.

Smirch
Relisted, see Redirects for discussion/Log/2020 March 7%23Smirch

Chirpici
<div class="boilerplate rfd vfd xfd-closed" style="background:#FFEEDD; margin-top:0.5em; padding:0 10px 0 10px; border:1px solid #888888;"> Closed discussion, see full discussion. Result was:
 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more redirects. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the redirect's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was no consensus.  --BDD (talk) 00:44, 9 March 2020 (UTC)


 * Chirpici → Mudbrick (talk · links · [//en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Chirpici&action=history history] · stats)     [ Closure:  ]

Foreign language redirect of a ordinary term with no particular tie to the language. Some parts of Romania do have a lot of mudbrick construction, but mudbricks are not an inherently Romanian concept. Previously redirected from a merge after discussion, there are now no links to the redirect. oknazevad (talk) 17:56, 20 February 2020 (UTC)


 * This is a right mess.
 * See
 * Chirpici [ro ] is not a 'foreign language term' (with the pejorative lack of importance that implies) but rather a local term for a foreign technique of building with mud bricks. Unsurprisingly (surely this is unsurprising?) there are international and climate-based variations in vernacular building techniques, regarding adobe, cob and mud brick building. However WP has no little collective knowledge of craft building topics, and Talk:Adobe was a dreadful idea, failing to understand the distinction between adobe and mud brick. Fortunately does have a bit more understanding and opposed it.
 * What the nominator hasn't mentioned is that it's a redir in the first place because they were the one who blanked an old stub article on it:
 * This should be a discussion on whether we restore Chirpici as an article on en:WP, and whether we can find viable English language sources to support it. Having previously worked on a few Anglo-Romanian aerospace topics, this is difficult: Romanian sources are removed as non-English, and we don't have many people with the language skills to translate in detail. Yet it is though clearly a WP:Notable topic: it's one of the few European mud brick techniques which is known across Europe (Chirpici houses have been built in SW England, with the aid of Romanians).
 * Should it exist as a redirect (if not an article) - of course. Why ever not?
 * Should it be linked as a redirect from mudbrick? Maybe, if (as is likely) it would be referring to a specific section within that article for the technique, as practised in Romania.
 * Should it be linked from cob (material)? - certainly. Either as a see also (where it was), or worked into prose. It's close enough to be relevant, far enough to be distinct. Andy Dingley (talk) 18:50, 20 February 2020 (UTC)
 * But, and this is the concern I've had for years, and the reason the article got redirected in the first place, is that it is just a "local term" (that's is to say, a non-English term) for a concept that has an English name for which we already have an article. Local techniques which may be borrowed don't rise to a distinct enough concept to warrant a separate article, and what hasn't been shown is that the term has use in English language sources. That's the concern. oknazevad (talk) 20:32, 20 February 2020 (UTC)
 * Also, the change to a redirect was me just carrying out the consensus of the discussion on Talk:Adobe, a discussion I got involved with because there was a lot of erroneous stuff going on at the time, such as the inappropriate move of compressed earth block which would have erased any distinction of that technology. Fortunately knowledgeable people came along to stop the errors, but it doesn't change that chirpici is just the Romanian language term for mudbrick (and it is that because it's blocks, not loose material), and WP:RFFL states plainly not to create non-English redirects for common terms. oknazevad (talk) 00:08, 21 February 2020 (UTC)
 * Chirpici isn't merely the Romanian term for mud brick, it's the Romanian term for mud brick, as practised as a fairly widespread vernacular building technique in Romania. We do recognise that local variants of a technique can differ, and that they can justify separate, notable articles. As noted, we probably can't source this well enough to make a robust en:WP article on it (although we used to have an adequate stub), but it's certainly enough to justify a redir and a para in mud brick. Andy Dingley (talk) 12:09, 21 February 2020 (UTC)

<div class="xfd_relist" style="border-top: 1px solid #AAA; border-bottom: 1px solid #AAA; padding: 0px 25px;"> Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.

Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, BDD (talk) 20:12, 28 February 2020 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. <b style="color:red">Please do not modify it.</b> Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page.

Active roster
<div class="boilerplate rfd vfd xfd-closed" style="background:#FFEEDD; margin-top:0.5em; padding:0 10px 0 10px; border:1px solid #888888;"> Closed discussion, see full discussion. Result was:
 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more redirects. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the redirect's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was delete  . There is consensus that this is an ambiguous redirect. Creation of an article or disambiguation-like page dealing with the concept is expressly encouraged by this discussion. ~  mazca  talk 13:59, 9 March 2020 (UTC)


 * Active roster → Major League Baseball rosters (talk · links · [//en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Active_roster&action=history history] · stats)     [ Closure:  ]

There are active rosters for leagues other than Major League Baseball, this is an inappropriate target. I propose changing this into a disambiguation page.  Eagles   24/7  (C)  15:45, 20 February 2020 (UTC)
 * Delete or disambiguate to available targets per nom. It's ambiguous and, thus, an WP:XY / WP:R thing. Doug Mehus T · C  15:52, 20 February 2020 (UTC)
 * Disambiguate per nom. Don't even think it needs a discussion, as it's a plain fact that MLB isn't the only sports league with active rosters. oknazevad (talk) 18:21, 20 February 2020 (UTC)
 * Write article, which might be short. AFAICT, only the MLB article discusses the concept; but it's mentioned in some American football biographies at least. I think "roster" in a sports context may be a purely North American term; is it used in other sports also, e.g. hockey, lacrosse or even soccer? We have practice squad, a related NA concept, which also mentions "main roster". See also DAB page roster, which includes the different concept roster (workplace). I suggest roster (sports) as a working title. Narky Blert (talk) 08:00, 21 February 2020 (UTC)
 * There's also developmental roster. Narky Blert (talk) 08:30, 21 February 2020 (UTC)

*Comment I support delete-ing this redirect if a draft disambiguation page hasn't been drafted, as this would still allow for recreation as a disambiguation in the future. Doug Mehus T · C  01:01, 28 February 2020 (UTC)  (User !voted twice, striking this one.  Eagles   24/7   (C)  21:39, 6 March 2020 (UTC)) <div class="xfd_relist" style="border-top: 1px solid #AAA; border-bottom: 1px solid #AAA; padding: 0px 25px;"> Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
 * Can anyone draft a disambiguation page to see how one would look like? feminist (talk) 12:59, 27 February 2020 (UTC)

Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, BDD (talk) 19:57, 28 February 2020 (UTC)
 * Delete I agree with Narky Blert that such an article is warranted. Disambiguation isn't necessarily a bad idea, but none has been drafted, and it's not clear to me exactly what it would look like. --BDD (talk) 00:41, 9 March 2020 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. <b style="color:red">Please do not modify it.</b> Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page.

The traffic
<div class="boilerplate rfd vfd xfd-closed" style="background:#FFEEDD; margin-top:0.5em; padding:0 10px 0 10px; border:1px solid #888888;"> Closed discussion, see full discussion. Result was:
 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more redirects. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the redirect's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was retarget  to Traffic (disambiguation). signed,Rosguill talk 23:04, 6 March 2020 (UTC)


 * The traffic → Traffic (talk · links · [//en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=The_traffic&action=history history] · stats)     [ Closure:  ]

This is just "traffic" with a "the" at the front. Unlikely. TheAwesome Hwyh  19:11, 28 February 2020 (UTC)
 * Retarget to Traffic (disambiguation) as R ambig. My immediate thought was The Traffic. Narky Blert (talk) 20:57, 28 February 2020 (UTC)
 * Target to dab per Narky.  J 947 &thinsp;(c) , at  21:43, 28 February 2020 (UTC)
 * Retarget to dab per Narky. Hog Farm (talk) 22:08, 28 February 2020 (UTC)
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Holy See (The)
<div class="boilerplate rfd vfd xfd-closed" style="background:#FFEEDD; margin-top:0.5em; padding:0 10px 0 10px; border:1px solid #888888;"> Closed discussion, see full discussion. Result was:
 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more redirects. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the redirect's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was delete  . signed,Rosguill talk 23:03, 6 March 2020 (UTC)


 * <span id="Holy See (The)">Holy See (The) → Holy See (talk · links · [//en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Holy_See_(The)&action=history history] · stats)     [ Closure:  ]

Unlikely search term. TheAwesome Hwyh  19:10, 28 February 2020 (UTC)
 * Delete as clogging; this page is sufficent.  J 947 &thinsp;(c) , at  21:47, 28 February 2020 (UTC)
 * Keep, actually. It's used and reduces the amount of clicks required.  J 947 &thinsp;(c) , at  23:17, 28 February 2020 (UTC)
 * Delete. This is not how we disambiguate. An article such as "the" only disambiguates in exceptional cases, e.g. The The and The Who, and a parenthetical (The) qualifier verges on beyond useless. Narky Blert (talk) 22:45, 28 February 2020 (UTC)
 * Delete - I respectfully disagree with on the pageviews analysis.  74 pageviews since 2015 doesn't mean a whole lot.  It received 20 in 2019, which is below the treshhold I would consider to indicate general usefulness. Hog Farm (talk) 23:25, 28 February 2020 (UTC)
 * I don't really care about this particularly much—it doesn't mean much at all—but this redirect isn't not useful either, as per RHARMFUL.  J 947 &thinsp;(c) , at  23:30, 28 February 2020 (UTC)
 * Delete. This is not how we disambiguate, nor is it how we make titles. The fact that the target is a title match minus the "The", this redirect serves no utility other than someone possibly unnecessarily clicking it after typing "Holy See" in the search bar. So, delete as unnecessary search bar clutter. Steel1943  (talk) 23:36, 28 February 2020 (UTC)
 * Delete per actually; it's simply unused. J947's pageview analysis shows 74 pageviews, but that's going back to its creation in 2015—that works out to less than 1 pageview per month. This could be due to bots, search engine crawlers, or a single user that has the page bookmarked for some reason. It's hard to know where those pageviews are coming from, but at any rate, it's most likely used not by people but by a single person, if it's used by people at all. I agree with Steel1943 that this is not how we disambiguate at all, but we could still keep redirects with seemingly implausible disambiguators if they had widespread usage. This is not that,  so, in this case, it's just cluttering up the search box. Doug Mehus  T · C  02:22, 1 March 2020 (UTC)
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Standard Galactic Grid
Relisted, see Redirects for discussion/Log/2020 March 7%23Standard Galactic Grid

5 Jesus redirects
<div class="boilerplate rfd vfd xfd-closed" style="background:#FFEEDD; margin-top:0.5em; padding:0 10px 0 10px; border:1px solid #888888;"> Closed discussion, see full discussion. Result was:
 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more redirects. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the redirect's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was no consensus  . Fairly even split between keep and delete, given the level of participation I don't think a relist would help. Keep editors felt that the redirects were sufficiently plausible misspellings, delete editors disagreed. signed,Rosguill talk 23:03, 6 March 2020 (UTC)

Searching for Jesus is not that difficult and it makes this a useless redirect. 209.237.105.108 (talk) 18:39, 28 February 2020 (UTC)
 * Gesuz → Jesus (talk · links · [//en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Gesuz&action=history history] · stats)     [ Closure:  ]
 * Gezus → Jesus (talk · links · [//en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Gezus&action=history history] · stats)     [ Closure:  ]
 * Gesus → Jesus (talk · links · [//en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Gesus&action=history history] · stats)     [ Closure:  ]
 * Gezuz → Jesus (talk · links · [//en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Gezuz&action=history history] · stats)     [ Closure:  ]
 * Jezuz → Jesus (talk · links · [//en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Jezuz&action=history history] · stats)     [ Closure:  ]

I would also like to mention that all of these redirects came from the same guy who also made other redirects to Jesus that have been deleted including The J Man, The Jezor, G-Zues, and Jezor. 209.237.105.108 (talk) 18:42, 28 February 2020 (UTC) Gesus got 97 hits on 75 different days, with one day in May getting 4 hits. Not often, but it does happen so I am willing to say kepp on this one. Gezuz got 24 hits on 18 different days, with two days getting 3 hits in April and October. Jezuz got 20 hits on 15 different days, with one day getting 3 hits in July. Gesuz got 18 hits on 12 different days, with one day getting 4 hits in January. Finally, Gezus got 15 hits on 13 different days, with two days getting two hits in January and May. While I do agree, there can be misspells, all of these other than Gesus get hits so rarely I do not see the point. Edit: I also checked when Jesus got the most hits last year. Most of these redirects did not get that many hits during Easter time and Christmas time, the two moments of the year where everyone searches up Jesus on Wikipedia. 71.34.25.253 (talk) 01:01, 29 February 2020 (UTC)
 * N.b., I've combined these nominations. Prior to this there were no comments on the individual nominations except the above comment from the nominator, left in the "Jezuz" discussion. --BDD (talk) 20:00, 28 February 2020 (UTC)
 * Good idea combining them. 209.237.105.108 (talk) 20:33, 28 February 2020 (UTC)
 * Delete none of these are notable spelling variants AngusWOOF  ( bark  •  sniff ) 20:46, 28 February 2020 (UTC)
 * Keep Gesus and delete the rest, Gesus got 97 pageviews last year, which is enough for me to consider it to be useful. Hog Farm (talk) 22:12, 28 February 2020 (UTC)
 * Delete all as made-up words and WP:OR. Narky Blert (talk) 22:53, 28 February 2020 (UTC)
 * Keep all as plausible misspellings. We can't assume all readers will know how to spell such a proper name: it's not generally a word that L2 learners learn early on, its great cultural prominence does not extend completely throughout the English-using world, and even in those other societies where the name is prominent it's almost invariably spelt differently than in English. – Uanfala (talk) 23:51, 28 February 2020 (UTC)
 * Well if you check the amount of hits each page got in the past year, you can because the hits per year for all of them except Gesus are less than 25 so I would be willing to say keep Gesus if anything.
 * Weak keep all per, given the notability of the target subject, the possibility for misspellings, and since none of these seems like intentional vandalism-ish misspellings (even though the creator did apparently create some variants that were indeed problems, as mentioned above.) However, I'm "weak" per 's "delete" vote: These aren't notable misspellings either. However, this is a case where them being deleted will probably cause more harm than good unless these redirects have WP:REDLINK potential by having a title/spelling conflict with another subject, which I do not see any such evidence presented thus far in the discussion. Steel1943  (talk) 23:58, 28 February 2020 (UTC)
 * I checked for other noteworthy topics that could go by these names and didn't find any (not counting the possibility of Gesus being mistaken as the plural of Gesu (which doesn't have a plural form) or Del Gesu (which has a plural form, but then the del is not separable from the Gesu). – Uanfala (talk) 00:34, 29 February 2020 (UTC)
 * The creator of these redirects also made definite vandalism-ish misspellings and got blocked for harassing other Wikipedians. For me it makes it very likely these are vandalism redirects too.71.34.25.253 (talk) 00:02, 29 February 2020 (UTC)
 * I'm not disagreeing that vandalism may have been the creator's intention, but though that may have been the case, these spellings aren't completely implausible. Steel1943  (talk) 00:04, 29 February 2020 (UTC)
 * Also check the amount of hits these pages got in the past year. Other than Gesus, they all got at most 24. And some of them were me searching them up a couple of days ago to confirm these are not deleted. Other than Gesus, I see no point in keeping them. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.34.25.253 (talk) 00:18, 29 February 2020 (UTC)
 * Delete what Narkas said pretty much sums it up. Also the fact that the creator of these also made other troll redirects. 71.34.25.253 (talk) 23:59, 28 February 2020 (UTC)
 * If you're the same person as the nominator, there's no need to !vote, as your nomination already counts. – Uanfala (talk) 00:34, 29 February 2020 (UTC)
 * Oh ok thanks for the feedback. But I will still argue these should be deleted when people say keep nevertheless. 71.34.25.253 (talk) 00:36, 29 February 2020 (UTC)
 * Keep all, possibly weak-ishly, per and . These are all plausible misspellings, some more common than others, perhaps. Unless there's other uses for these redirects, there's no harm in keeping them. Doug Mehus  T · C  00:07, 29 February 2020 (UTC)
 * I searched up the amount of hits in the past year. Gesus got 97 the rest got at most 24. Other than Gesus, I do not see any possible value in keeping these. 71.34.25.253 (talk) 00:15, 29 February 2020 (UTC)
 * Yeah, that's why I said "possibly weak-ishly". Nevertheless, there's no apparent harm in keeping them, so I think these get an WP:RCHEAP pass. Doug Mehus T · C  00:50, 29 February 2020 (UTC)
 * Other than Gesus these redirects only got up to 24 hits last year, some even 15-18. It makes me not see a reason to keep some of these even more. 97 though for Gesus makes me willing to say keep. 71.34.25.253 (talk) 00:33, 29 February 2020 (UTC)
 * Ok I decided to type here the basic overall records for the hits these pages got in the past year.
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Shuttle operator
<div class="boilerplate rfd vfd xfd-closed" style="background:#FFEEDD; margin-top:0.5em; padding:0 10px 0 10px; border:1px solid #888888;"> Closed discussion, see full discussion. Result was:
 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more redirects. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the redirect's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was delete  . Consensus is that there are clearly multiple meanings of this term, with no strong indication as to which one a reader is looking for. This is discouraged by WP:XY. ~  mazca  talk 23:52, 8 March 2020 (UTC)


 * Shuttle operator → Three-way comparison (talk · links · [//en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Shuttle_operator&action=history history] · stats)     [ Closure:  ]

Not mentioned at the target, and I wasn't able to figure out if/how the terms are related from searching Google Scholar. Delete unless a justification provided. signed,Rosguill talk 18:32, 28 February 2020 (UTC)
 * Delete per WP:XY. Could also mean the operator of a shuttle bus or shuttle train service, or even a weaver, among other things. Narky Blert (talk) 22:58, 28 February 2020 (UTC)
 * Delete - per WP:XY. Add the operator of a space shuttle to the list of things this could mean. Hog Farm (talk) 23:02, 28 February 2020 (UTC)
 * Delete per nom, but I also think this could become a broad-concept article or a disambiguation article in the future for the possible uses of the terminology. My primary usage for the term is indeed a company that operates a bus shuttle service; it could also apply to SpaceX, which has a contract with NASA to launch rockets and the like. I wouldn't use the term to refer to a space shuttle pilot, though. Doug Mehus T · C  00:52, 29 February 2020 (UTC)
 * Delete The operator of the U.S. STS space shuttle was the United Space Alliance ; and many airlines operate shuttle services. -- 65.94.171.6 (talk) 08:29, 1 March 2020 (UTC)
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Blood grouping and crossmatching
<div class="boilerplate rfd vfd xfd-closed" style="background:#FFEEDD; margin-top:0.5em; padding:0 10px 0 10px; border:1px solid #888888;"> Closed discussion, see full discussion. Result was:
 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more redirects. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the redirect's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was delete  . signed,Rosguill talk 23:00, 6 March 2020 (UTC)


 * Blood grouping and crossmatching → Cross-matching (talk · links · [//en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Blood_grouping_and_crossmatching&action=history history] · stats)     [ Closure:  ]

Blood grouping and crossmatching are different things. Blood grouping (which I'm currently working on a draft for, because we somehow don't have an article on it!?!) refers to determining a person's blood type, i.e., type A negative and so on. Crossmatching refers to testing a patient's blood sample against donor blood to determine if it is compatible. Blood grouping is usually done before a crossmatch, and is part of electronic crossmatching, but it's not the same thing. The article does discuss blood grouping briefly, but only as an alternative to crossmatching in emergency situations. TL;DR: Suggest deleting per WP:XY. SpicyMilkBoy (talk) 18:03, 28 February 2020 (UTC)
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Sabre corp
<div class="boilerplate rfd vfd xfd-closed" style="background:#FFEEDD; margin-top:0.5em; padding:0 10px 0 10px; border:1px solid #888888;"> Closed discussion, see full discussion. Result was:
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 * The result of the discussion was retarget  to Sabre Corporation. signed,Rosguill talk 23:00, 6 March 2020 (UTC)


 * Sabre corp → Dunder Mifflin (talk · links · [//en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Sabre_corp&action=history history] · stats)     [ Closure:  ]

Retarget to Sabre Corporation. While the fictional company is mentioned in the target article, I don't see why a fictional company in a TV show should have priority over a corporation publicly traded on a stock index (NASDAQ in the US). Hatnote to Dunder Mifflin if deemed necessary. Hog Farm (talk) 14:14, 28 February 2020 (UTC)
 * Retarget to Sabre Corporation per nom as I'm not sure I can find a reason for WP:DIFFCAPS here. Add one- or two-way hatnotes to Dunder Mifflin and Sabre Corporation. Hatnotes are cheap and useful. Doug Mehus T · C  14:17, 28 February 2020 (UTC)
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Yup yup yup
Relisted, see Redirects for discussion/Log/2020 March 8%23Yup yup yup

1/9 (number)
<div class="boilerplate rfd vfd xfd-closed" style="background:#FFEEDD; margin-top:0.5em; padding:0 10px 0 10px; border:1px solid #888888;"> Closed discussion, see full discussion. Result was:
 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more redirects. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the redirect's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was delete  . signed,Rosguill talk 22:59, 6 March 2020 (UTC)


 * <span id="1/9 (number)">1/9 (number) → 9 (talk · links · [//en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=1/9_(number)&action=history history] · stats)     [ Closure:  ]

The redirect does not make sense. Soumyabrata (talk • subpages) 11:10, 28 February 2020 (UTC)
 * Delete as ambiguous. Could be a fraction, January 9 or 1 September at least. Narky Blert (talk) 12:35, 28 February 2020 (UTC)
 * Delete The fraction does not have a page, and the (number) disambiguator makes the the date usage less likely. Hog Farm (talk) 14:04, 28 February 2020 (UTC)
 * Delete as ambiguous and as an implausible search term with the disambiguation qualifier as a redirect. Same as 1/6 (number) below. Doug Mehus T · C  14:07, 28 February 2020 (UTC)
 * Delete; any redirect would be confusing, best to let the search engine do its job in this scenario.  J 947 &thinsp;(c) , at  22:46, 28 February 2020 (UTC)
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1/6 (number)
<div class="boilerplate rfd vfd xfd-closed" style="background:#FFEEDD; margin-top:0.5em; padding:0 10px 0 10px; border:1px solid #888888;"> Closed discussion, see full discussion. Result was:
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 * The result of the discussion was delete  . signed,Rosguill talk 22:59, 6 March 2020 (UTC)


 * <span id="1/6 (number)">1/6 (number) → 6 (talk · links · [//en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=1/6_(number)&action=history history] · stats)     [ Closure:  ]

The redirect does not make sense. Soumyabrata (talk • subpages) 11:09, 28 February 2020 (UTC)
 * Delete as ambiguous. Could be a fraction, January 6 or 1 June at least. Narky Blert (talk) 12:35, 28 February 2020 (UTC)
 * Delete as ambiguous per above and because of the unnecessary disambiguation qualifier, which makes it an implausible search term as a redirect. Doug Mehus T · C  14:05, 28 February 2020 (UTC)
 * Delete The fraction does not have its own page, and the (number) disambiguator makes it much less likely to be intended as a search for the date. Hog Farm (talk) 14:07, 28 February 2020 (UTC)
 * Delete; any redirect would be confusing, best to let the search engine do its job in this scenario.  J 947 &thinsp;(c) , at  22:47, 28 February 2020 (UTC)
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Wikipedia:Be a man (Failed guideline proposal)
<div class="boilerplate rfd vfd xfd-closed" style="background:#FFEEDD; margin-top:0.5em; padding:0 10px 0 10px; border:1px solid #888888;"> Closed discussion, see full discussion. Result was:
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 * The result of the discussion was delete  . signed,Rosguill talk 22:59, 6 March 2020 (UTC)


 * <span id="Wikipedia:Be a man (Failed guideline proposal)">Be a man (Failed guideline proposal) → Wikipedia:Don't be a wuss/Failed guideline proposal (talk · links · [//en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Be_a_man_(Failed_guideline_proposal)&action=history history] · stats)     [ Closure:  ]

Used only twice on the whole encyclopedia, unnecessary disambiguation. TheAwesome Hwyh  06:07, 28 February 2020 (UTC)


 * Delete- unnecessary, faintly sexist, garbage. <b style="color: Maroon;">Reyk</b> <b style="color: Blue;">YO!</b> 09:27, 28 February 2020 (UTC)
 * Delete as an implausible search term because of the long parenthetical qualifier. There could be merit to a project shortcut here, without the parenthetical qualifier, but I don't we need to retroactively create shortcuts to failed project proposals. Thus, I agree with the first and latter two points of 's argument; it's unnecessary and garbage. Doug Mehus T · C  14:10, 28 February 2020 (UTC)
 * But isn't this how we get down to business to defeat the Huns? --BDD (talk) 20:07, 28 February 2020 (UTC)
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Calona
<div class="boilerplate rfd vfd xfd-closed" style="background:#FFEEDD; margin-top:0.5em; padding:0 10px 0 10px; border:1px solid #888888;"> Closed discussion, see full discussion. Result was:
 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more redirects. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the redirect's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was delete  . signed,Rosguill talk 22:58, 6 March 2020 (UTC)


 * Calona → Jonas Quinn (talk · links · [//en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Calona&action=history history] · stats)     [ Closure:  ]

Unclear why this redirect redirects to the current page of a fictional character from a television series. This, arguably, should be the primary redirect for Calona Wines, which has been the subject of book-length local history books and a fair bit of reliable source mass media press coverage; however, Calona Wines is currently awaiting article creation. So, I'm proposing to either (a) delete per WP:R or (b) to weak disambiguate for now, if possible though partial title matches may apply here, until an article for Calona Wines is created then it could be boldly retargeted there as the primary redirect. I would oppose retarget-ing to Herb Capozzi or W. A. C. Bennett because Calona Wines is only tangentially mentioned in either article and it becomes an XY thing. Similarly, Calona has never been a variant spelling for Kelowna; it's always been the name of Calona Wines, Calona Vineyards, and related for-profit private enterprises, as a play on the spelling of the name Kelowna. I would weak support retarget-ing to Okanagan Valley (wine region), if that's possible here, even though it's not the full company name, until such time as Calona Wines has a published article, then this should target there as R from short name. Doug Mehus T · C  00:18, 28 February 2020 (UTC)
 * Delete to encourage article creation; clutters searching. Not mentioned in the target, no other suitable target. As well as Calona Wines, there are two blacklinked people with the surname. Nothing in Italian or Spanish WPs. sv:Opopaea calona has no English equivalent and would not be a suitable target if it did. Narky Blert (talk) 10:11, 28 February 2020 (UTC)
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